Contra practicing

[Hank74]

I wanted to ask all of you who are now playing the 4 valve contras, like King or Dynasty, as to what kind of notes do you practice and play with the extra valve.

Would this be playing the very low notes, below the pedal BBb? Also, when you're performing, do you play the very low notes on the field, or something more ususal like between the middle B and pedal BBb?

Hank74

[Shadow_7]

The 4th valve IMO is to bridge the gap between low Bb and pedal Bb. Granted that without a compensating system, the B natural above pedel Bb doesn't have an available fingering, but can be lipped down from C. (from a Bb perspective)

In my younger days, I'd use the extra valve as an alternate fingering when my other fingers got tired of pushing on strong springs. 3 instead of 1 and 2, 4 instead of 1 and 3. In more modern times, it allows for better intonation tendancies to use the alternate fingerings. As valve combinations are inherently sharp by nature. And sharp enough that Eb(written F for G horns on treble clef) is played 1, 2, and 4 instead of what would otherwise be 1, and 4. Unless there's a compensating system to help counter the tendancies.

[tubawarrior]

on the dynasty 5/4 4 valve, we used the 4th valve as an alternate tuning combination for F below the staff (4), E natural (2-4) below that, B natural (2-4), C (4), and of course use it for the pedal notes

[Dave]

The primary purpose of the 4th valve is to make up for the inherent sharpness of 1 and 3 combinations; i.e., 4 is more in tune than 1 and 3, 2 and 4 is more in tune than 1, 2 and 3. It also helps extend the range of the instrument lower. One a 3v BBb tuba, E is the lowest note the instrument can play as a real note. There are "fake" pedal tones for pedal Eb through pedal B, but with the fourth valve you can play them as real notes with a lot more tone and intonation. On contra I use the 4th valve no differently than I do on tuba.

[gjdavistuba]

On the King contras, the fourth valve is placed in a very strange place(the opposite side of the other 3 valves, left index finger operated)......some contra players here use it; i personally don't, because the intonation difference isn't noticable between the 1 and 3 combination on C and the 123 combination on b natural. Now, for a concert tuba, such as my Schmidt, the 4th is a VERY noticable difference....don't know how the dynasty contras are. of course, it may just be me on the contras and not the instruments themselves. also, just do regular exercises on the kind contra(if that is what you use)....i personally find it to be satisfying enough...if you know how to set your embouchure correctly, it can have a VERY beautiful sound and great projection, however, if you have no idea how to play the king contra, you will get a very nasty sound. also, the first f below the staff is always out of tune on the king contras.

Edited February 17, 2006 by gjdavistuba

[MCL_Contra]

I have been told and I have read that the fourth valve combination makes playing the pedal notes easier than using just the 1-2-3 combinations because it shortens the overall length of the tubing. Now I'm not sure if this is true or not but I do know that I find it much easier to reach the pedal notes and play them in tune when using the fourth valve combinations. I play a 4v DEG.

Edited February 17, 2006 by MCL_Contra

[Dave]

It's the same length of tubing, but it is more direct because you're pressing fewer valves down, and it's more in-tune because as I said, the 4th valve is more in tune than 1 and 3 combinations.

[Periphery]

It's the same length of tubing, but it is more direct because you're pressing fewer valves down, and it's more in-tune because as I said, the 4th valve is more in tune than 1 and 3 combinations.

I agree with Dave. When your slides are properly set, your fourth should simulate 1+3+slide (like a trumpet) that corrects the sharpness without actually having to pull anything. The VERY sharp 1+2+3 would then be playable as 24. Even with a fourth valve, a BBb tuba continues to creep sharp as you descend. When you get to Eb you need to start playing the fingerings down one half step. If you do that, you will end up with a pretty well in tune low register all the way down to pedal C. That note SHOULD be 1+3+4, but needs to be played 1+2+3+4. If you do that you are good to go. BUT – then you have no fingering available for the next semitone down! On a four valve instrument, it is nearly impossible to play the last half step above its fundamental pitch without a great deal of practice. You have just used all of your valves to play a CC; next available fingering combination is "0" which is for BBb. This is why most professional tubas have five valves on them. That allows you to get that one note as well as giving you a whole slew of extra, alternate fingerings to fix pitch and response problems.

So 4 should be set to be a tiny bit flat so that 4 C and 2+4 B are do-able without slide pulls. That allows 1 and 3 to be set for other things, like 2+3 combinations.

On a well in tune instrument, properly set slides allow the player to avoid too much lipping, slide pulling, and alternate fingerings.

CLEAR AS MUD, RIGHT???? ^0^