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the last thread i said-and retracted- something negative about the review because it seemed to be someone with a very strong madison bias telling me that the bluecoats were ripping off Madison 2003 and that the only reason blue was doing well was due to the fact that they were in his eyes marching a very weak book, drill-wise... kiiinda got to me a little and i responded in kind--

in terms of this review- you let a bass drum ruin an entire show for you because thats all you could focus on- i was more just prodding for more info- like "what would the show have been like if the amps were unplugged and that bass drum wasnt bothering you so much?"- thats all- not upset- i apologize if i seemed too critical- i do appreciate your review and the time you took to write it-

I'll see the Cadets Friday in Maryland. So will make more comments at that time.

However, I am a trained musician. My ears are trained to hear nuances in the music; in timbre and intrumentation, in tuning, blemd and balance. I have always been sensitive to loud sounds. I can't stand alarm clocks.

So when I go to a drum corps show, my triaining is there. I can't help it that when I hear band sounds, whether the horn line is out of tune or the mics are way to loud I don't just notice it, but it really bothers me. When pit instruments like cymbals stick out and are out of character because of amps, it bothers me; distriacts me and makes it difficult to over look as hard as I may try (and I have tried).

So far for me amps, not just vocals, but ALL AMPLIFICATION has had more of a negative affect on shows than a positive one. :ramd:

P.S.

I've also heard several indoor concerts over the last few years where part or all of a show/concert was miced and to be honest it lessened, and in a couple of cases ruined, most of those performances.

Edited by shawn craig
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The fans booed the Cadets show. Reminiscent of Star of Indiana

Are you sure they weren't "BLLOOOOO"ing, to show support for the 'Coats? :laugh:

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Once upon a time, drums corps played music people knew. Or they played great classical pieces. Occasionally they played terrific original music. Now the play just plain weird amplified stuff and they sing through the majority of the show and want to sound like street gangsters.

Dan Achenson -- it is time to get this under control. The short term gain of a few teenagers will not offset the long term departure of the drum corps fan. If my teenager didn't like the top two shows, who is this activity reaching????

You sound like Dana Carvey's "grumpy old man" character from Saturday Night Live! Haha. "Whyyyyyyyyyy in my day, we played three songs that everyone knew. As a matter of fact, if some liberal froo froo idiot even proposed a song that one of us didn't know, he was taken out to Old Man Johnson's farm and beaten with rakes....And we liked it that way!"

What exactly is Dan Acheson supposed to get under control? Is he supposed to mandate that all corps play "recognizable" music? Tell all corps, 'no more amps'? Because he can't do that. Are we supposed to dumb down programming because a few fans don't have the capacity to follow a program or two?

Just curious, when was the last time you saw a marching band, BOA, or WGI competition? Things have changed with the marching genre. Amplification isn't going away because it's been proven to be a positive addition to the shows and I think most would agree....you may like or dislike what some corps do with the amplification (I know I do....I haven't seen the Cadets this year, but I bet I agree with what you say about how their miked stuff is distracting and just plain weird), but for the most part it serves as a positive addition to the creative process.

Just because you or YOUR teenager didn't like a show, doesn't mean others won't (c'mon that's Consumer Behavior 101...you're a business owner aren't you?). Do you know who Frank Zappa is? I think the Cadets are the Frank Zappa of the drum corps world....most cast his music off as weird, filth, low brow....but once studied, it's heavily influenced by avant guard composers like Oliver Messian, Phillip Glass, John Cage and many others and many knowledgeable musicians find his music to be genius. To enjoy FZ music, you have to understand where it's coming from and WHY it was written. Cadets shows are kind of like that.

DCI's popularity is on an upswing right now....I don't know where you've been or what demographic sample you are basing your opinions on (the few fans sitting around you in Evansville, IN probably isn't the deepest pool to choose from btw), but you're wrong....no other way to say it. If you want to get into a discussion about fan base, it's not because of the programming of the corps, it's because there are about 200 less drum corps now than there were 20 years ago! It's economics, not programming. There are fewer localized fans because there are fewer localized corps.

DW

Edited by 93Bluecoat
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Are you sure they weren't "BLLOOOOO"ing, to show support for the 'Coats? :laugh:

Haha, that's actually a good point Matt.

DW

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Now for the BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENTS of the night. Perhaps the biggest disappointments I have ever experienced at a drum corps show. They were so disappointing that my excitement for the season was curtailed.

DIVISION I

1 The Cadets 79.050

2 Bluecoats 78.800

The fans booed the Cadets show. They were really surprised when the show won. Flabbergasted might have been a better word.

Thank you for your review. Is this how its going to be the whole season? Can your comments [your opinion] on the Cadets show be more critical than they are? Obviously they are doing more things right than wrong in the eyes of the adjudicators [Thank God]. Let me say to the folks who have not seen the Cadets perform this year yet -- The show is very good musically and visually, the kids are talented [all sections] and come August; well, the non-believers become believers.

I didn't particulary agree with SCV show last year, but those kids busted their butts all summer to finish 8th at the championships. In my eyes that was a huge success. Why do we need to belittle the kids just to get our points across?

Irving

Fan of the Arts

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Now for the BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENTS of the night. Perhaps the biggest disappointments I have ever experienced at a drum corps show. They were so disappointing that my excitement for the season was curtailed.

DIVISION I

1 The Cadets 79.050

2 Bluecoats 78.800

The fans booed the Cadets show. They were really surprised when the show won. Flabbergasted might have been a better word.

Thank you for your review. Is this how its going to be the whole season? Can your comments [your opinion] on the Cadets show be more critical than they are? Obviously they are doing more things right than wrong in the eyes of the adjudicators [Thank God]. Let me say to the folks who have not seen the Cadets perform this year yet -- The show is very good musically and visually, the kids are talented [all sections] and come August; well, the non-believers become believers.

I didn't particulary agree with SCV show last year, but those kids busted their butts all summer to finish 8th at the championships. In my eyes that was a huge success. Why do we need to belittle the kids just to get our points across?

Irving

Fan of the Arts

The way I'm seeing things, if you're gonna give a review, you better have good things to say since the kids are busting their butts.

I don't think the negative comments are directed at the kids but more towards the show, amps and clutter. I didn't read anyone questioning the hard work the kids put into to it. I didn't read anyone questioning the talent of each individual. Distractions are Distractions to some, And Distractions are considered Art by others.

We don't have to agree!

Edited by Phantombari1
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Why do we need to belittle the kids just to get our points across?

Who's belittling the kids?? Are you talking about the negative reviews? Please. I'll be the first to admit that some of them have gone a little overboard, but criticism is a part of drum corps that every corps has to deal with. Don't you think the mighty Cadets know this? Do you think any of these reactions surprise them?? They went out of their way to program their show to generate the most reactions possible...they don't want people to be indifferent to them, which is what they were becoming. They want passionate viewpoints. Love them. Hate them. That's what they want. That's what they're getting.

Are you talking about the booing?? How does one distinguish a BOOO from a BLOOO?! I'm not even being facetious here.

So maybe it's my turn:

Let me say to the folks who have not seen the Cadets perform this year yet -- The show is very good musically and visually, but it still has its flaws. Some of which are, in my opinion, considerable and need to be ironed out quickly. The kids are way talented [all sections] and come August, they might just win it all. But that doesn't mean that people will throw roses at their feet, worship the ground they walk on, agree with the placement, or even like the show.

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To the original poster I would say give many of these shows a second or third viewing before you judge for several reasons: these shows are being designed at a VERY high competitive and creative level and there is a lot of trial and error involved (you seem to be in love with the old OPENER, CONCERT SELECTION, CLOSER played louder higher and faster in 4/4 time era) and what you are seeing in June is a rough draft of good ideas. There are many things in the Bluecoats show that I know are being redone for the purpose of making the show more cohesive. The Cadets annually are a work in progress that usually doesn't make sense until the end of July....I'm not saying you are going to like either show (I saw the Cadets about 10 times last year and still didn't like it, but the show DID improve as the season progressed) but give the staffs (staves?) time to get things right.

As for your distaste in amplification...everyone has their own opinions, so spout off it's your right and no one should flame for that, just don't expect everyone to bow down and agree with you. I was (and probably deep down, still am) anti amplification until I saw how it could make shows and show experiences better. IMO, we have seen both good and bad uses of amplification over the last several years. Like Phil asked before, I would like to know where you were sitting (I'm thinking pretty low)....because I saw the 'Coats from pretty high up a couple of days ago and their pit balance was incredible (particularly in the ballad which is the best part of their show).

BTW, miking the concert basses....why you ask? Balance and blend...it's why amplification passed in the first place, it allows percussion arrangers to properly balance the front ensemble to the rest of the battery and hornline. Now, your issue may not be an amplification issue...could it be that the people playing the basses were overplaying? Perhaps.....didn't see that possibility in your post.

DW

PS....it's "Autumn Leaves" haha....

Great post!!! Couldn't have said it better myself! amplification seems to be a crapshoot. I guess the corps who utilize it more (Cadets) need to be sensitive to the size of the venue, distance from sideline to seating, etc., when determining sound levels.

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Now for the BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENTS of the night. Perhaps the biggest disappointments I have ever experienced at a drum corps show. They were so disappointing that my excitement for the season was curtailed.

DIVISION I

1 The Cadets 79.050

2 Bluecoats 78.800

The fans booed the Cadets show. They were really surprised when the show won. Flabbergasted might have been a better word.

Thank you for your review. Is this how its going to be the whole season? Can your comments [your opinion] on the Cadets show be more critical than they are? Obviously they are doing more things right than wrong in the eyes of the adjudicators [Thank God]. Let me say to the folks who have not seen the Cadets perform this year yet -- The show is very good musically and visually, the kids are talented [all sections] and come August; well, the non-believers become believers.

I didn't particulary agree with SCV show last year, but those kids busted their butts all summer to finish 8th at the championships. In my eyes that was a huge success. Why do we need to belittle the kids just to get our points across?

Irving

Fan of the Arts

What does SCV of last year have to do with ahything regarding this review ?? Sorry Irving, I know you enlisted to help the Cadets here at DCP , however, not everyone "borgs" to the beat of George & Co. Alice, the looking glass, or singing during drum corps. This persons review is his opinion, and he will present it and should present it the way he feels, dont like it ?? move along, but dont tell anyone how they should review a show. Again they are doing US a favor by taking the time to let us know what they thought. We are not obligated to read it or agree with it.

Sorry you feel (like all other pro-amp/borg-esque folks) that criticism is belittling or bashing LOL !! well, its not, and its not inteneded that way, and it doesnt come across that way. What you are getting is reations to things presented in a public forum, there is supposed to be a reaction right ?? Its just sometimes its not what we want to hear..thats life. The "arts" are subjective and not everyone likes the same things.

Bottom line, those that take the time to review shows have the right to express their opinions, free from ridicule.

~G~

Edited by GMichael1230
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I think the effect of the mic'ed bass drum escaped the original poster. I take it that with the drill in pattern that represents and EKG the bass drum parts are to represent a heartbeat.

The two of these serve as the element that connexus (connects us): a heart. (although sometimes I wonder)

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