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What in the world are the Scouts Playing? And Why?


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I watched their show live on Season Pass last Saturday, and while it's (to me) well done, it doesn't sound like Madison, you know? Oh, I know that times change, but it's a rarity in the last 20 years or so when they do *no* jazz in their program.

Mike

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Disjunct, incomplete phrases, senseless keyboard runs, cliche bass drum riffs, Stop and Go, Loud, Dark nonsense. Loud, Louder, and Ugly, Out of tune soloists, more senseless keyboard runs, more cliche bass drum riffs, dirty, drier than dry snares, more Loud broken phrases, and the absolute distruction of "Snippets of Themes" from composers, Albeniz, Ginastera, and Morricone.
There is plenty of music out there. But when ARRANGERS try to out ARRANGE each other, this is what you get.

This seems to be the way of the world in corps arranging at present. Most corps take this approach, to greater or lessor degree. As I listened to the Glassmen prior to their departure for Europe, I couldn't help but wonder why Beethoven's music was so thoroughly altered and re-arranged. Beethoven didn't need any help. Now, I understand that a symphonic or keyboard composition requires a certain amount of arranging for the brass/percussion ensmeble that we call drum corps, but why does the basic intent of the composer and the essential fabric of the music need to be so drastically altered and infringed upon. Are today's young corps musicians so musically advanced as to be unchallenged by the masterworks of one of the world's greatest composers?

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This seems to be the way of the world in corps arranging at present. Most corps take this approach, to greater or lessor degree. As I listened to the Glassmen prior to their departure for Europe, I couldn't help but wonder why Beethoven's music was so thoroughly altered and re-arranged. Beethoven didn't need any help. Now, I understand that a symphonic or keyboard composition requires a certain amount of arranging for the brass/percussion ensmeble that we call drum corps, but why does the basic intent of the composer and the essential fabric of the music need to be so drastically altered and infringed upon. Are today's young corps musicians so musically advanced as to be unchallenged by the masterworks of one of the world's greatest composers?

You have to understand that when a corps says they are playing "Beethoven", the really mean that they are playing music based on themes popularized by Beethoven. Beethoven was constrained by the conventions of his day. We sophisticated "moderns" can do better. Who is to say that Beethoven himself would not have have taken advantage of syncopation, dissonance and random percussion hits if he had known of these things. Consider:

Original: "Freunde schoner gotterfunken tochter aus Elysium"

Updated: "Freunde schoner gotter CHAKKA CHAKKA BOOM BOOM BOOM CRAAAASH!!!!!!"

Seriously, which one is better?

/sarcasm

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You have to understand that when a corps says they are playing "Beethoven", the really mean that they are playing music based on themes popularized by Beethoven. Beethoven was constrained by the conventions of his day. We sophisticated "moderns" can do better. Who is to say that Beethoven himself would not have have taken advantage of syncopation, dissonance and random percussion hits if he had known of these things. Consider:

Original: "Freunde schoner gotterfunken tochter aus Elysium"

Updated: "Freunde schoner gotter CHAKKA CHAKKA BOOM BOOM BOOM CRAAAASH!!!!!!"

Seriously, which one is better?

/sarcasm

I'll take the original,................. Beethoven, Bach, et al, had access, and used all the things you mentioned, but not to the extent of a whirling dervish,..................

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I havent had the chance to hear this show live yet, but I did watch the live stream from Columbia and downloaded the APD. My first reaction to it wasn't all positive, especially with the brass execution.

However, after listening to it 4-5 times now, I'm really beginning to like the show quite a bit. The drum book is fantastic. The opening fanfare is very HOT and is indeed Madison, being Madison. I like the ballad section better than the past couple of years. The closer is a great piece of music...just not crazy about the ending. Sounds too much like '05. (Which was a problem.)

I would agree that the APD does have some intonation and tone quality issues with overblowing, especially the final few chords. The trumpet solo also wasn't as strong as I'm used to from this corps, but I have no doubt these issues will be fixed. The Scouts brass staff is one of DCI's best and they have been at it for many years with much success.

By the way, I could make some of these same brass concern comments with Bluecoats and Cavaliers.

There is NO CHANCE that this corps will not be in finals at Camp Randall. I could understand an argument being made (in June) as to whether they will be top 6 or not, but their drumline, the brass book, and the drill will certainly have them in finals. It's probably going to be their guard that determines if they remain a top 6 corps in '06.

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There are those who like what they're doing, and there are those who don't...that's fine, and everyone's tastes are going to be different.

That being said...there are very few, if any corps left who sound like they did 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. Concepts change, styles change, programs change...some for the better/some not. I happen to like the different feel and sound of this show.

That (insert corps name here) doesn't sound like (insert corps name here) is not necessarily a bad thing...and, yes, I am an alumn of Madison, and DON'T drink the "kool-aid"...but, I can appreciate the different choices that their design team has made. It's different from when I marched, different from when a lot of alumni marched.

They are still Madison...the corps that played Malaguena, Ballet in Brass, JC Superstar, Pirate music, Ice Castles, Rhapsody in Blue, and Cirque du Soleil...all very genres of music...but THEY played it. Maybe you liked it, maybe you didn't...

They will still sound like Madison...just like Vanguard will sound like Vanguard, Blue Devils will sound like Blue Devil, and so on...

You don't have to like it...that's what makes the activity unique. Different strokes for different folks...live with it.

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My comments have nothing to do with the visual program of the Scouts, nor do they have anything to do with the fact that they continue do a fine job of building young men.

I just finished listening to the Scouts recording from Columbia, MO. I am sorry to say that the boys from Madison may find themselves out of finals in Madison this year. IMO, the show is an absolute musical MESS!

Disjunct, incomplete phrases, senseless keyboard runs, cliche bass drum riffs, Stop and Go, Loud, Dark nonsense. Loud, Louder, and Ugly, Out of tune soloists, more senseless keyboard runs, more cliche bass drum riffs, dirty, drier than dry snares, more Loud broken phrases, and the absolute distruction of "Snippets of Themes" from composers, Albeniz, Ginastera, and Morricone.

How very sad (IMO) that the music of; The Count Basie Orchestra, Stan Kenton, Mel Lewis/Thad Jones, Don Ellis, Duke Ellington, Tito Puente, Toshiko Akioyshi/Lew Tabakin, Scott Whitfield Jazz Orchestra, and many, many, many more great Jazz and Latin bands, would be considered way too trite and simple for the boys to play. It's probably better this way, because I would not just tear up, but would have to be admitted to a hospital if they were to add all of the required tumbling runs to the music of the afore mentioned artists. There is plenty of music out there. But when ARRANGERS try to out ARRANGE each other, this is what you get. Most corps would be happy to have the students from Texas that the Scouts did not accept. They have more than enough talent to succeed, I just don't get it. The kids will drink the Kool-Aid. Be more careful and thoughtful about what flavor of Kool-Aid you prepare for them.

It was said that "Primal Forces" would be harder and faster than the "Bizet Destruction" of '05. Well, mission accomplished! I think if they could play the show in Cut Time, the keyboard runs would be even "faster" than the other kids. Double the volume of the loud for louds sake stuff, and then you'll really have something.

God bless any corps that is willing to complete ONE musical phrase during their program. DCI should consider having "The People's Champion" and then the ever coveted, "Hardest, Fastest, Darkest, Loudest, Champion" .

Note counters should also be incorporated. The corps that plays the most notes wins! Yea!

Please make a point to witness the Scouts "Alumni Project" . As trite as it may seem to some, it will contain complete melodic lines and phrases. It will engage and CONNECT with the audience. They will make you SMILE, STAND, and also cry tears of joy for the historical, melodic, and emotional contnet of their program. They will be the hottest thing in Madison, except fot the temp. on the turf.

I was at ground level about the 40 yard line when they did thier last run through before the dinner break. Whoever was on that field was not Madison of old. IMO, it was hard to really grab on to anything that said "Madison in your face". So sad. :(

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As an alum. I can't wait to see The Boy's this year. I am and always will be supportive of my younger Brothers. Times have changed in drum corps from back in my day. It seems to me that most corps now-a-days use the hornline as another drum to support the pit. This is not really my cup of tea either,but a fact of life now.

Edited by Bill L.
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My comments have nothing to do with the visual program of the Scouts, nor do they have anything to do with the fact that they continue do a fine job of building young men.

I just finished listening to the Scouts recording from Columbia, MO. I am sorry to say that the boys from Madison may find themselves out of finals in Madison this year. IMO, the show is an absolute musical MESS!

Disjunct, incomplete phrases, senseless keyboard runs, cliche bass drum riffs, Stop and Go, Loud, Dark nonsense. Loud, Louder, and Ugly, Out of tune soloists, more senseless keyboard runs, more cliche bass drum riffs, dirty, drier than dry snares, more Loud broken phrases, and the absolute distruction of "Snippets of Themes" from composers, Albeniz, Ginastera, and Morricone.

How very sad (IMO) that the music of; The Count Basie Orchestra, Stan Kenton, Mel Lewis/Thad Jones, Don Ellis, Duke Ellington, Tito Puente, Toshiko Akioyshi/Lew Tabakin, Scott Whitfield Jazz Orchestra, and many, many, many more great Jazz and Latin bands, would be considered way too trite and simple for the boys to play. It's probably better this way, because I would not just tear up, but would have to be admitted to a hospital if they were to add all of the required tumbling runs to the music of the afore mentioned artists. There is plenty of music out there. But when ARRANGERS try to out ARRANGE each other, this is what you get. Most corps would be happy to have the students from Texas that the Scouts did not accept. They have more than enough talent to succeed, I just don't get it. The kids will drink the Kool-Aid. Be more careful and thoughtful about what flavor of Kool-Aid you prepare for them.

It was said that "Primal Forces" would be harder and faster than the "Bizet Destruction" of '05. Well, mission accomplished! I think if they could play the show in Cut Time, the keyboard runs would be even "faster" than the other kids. Double the volume of the loud for louds sake stuff, and then you'll really have something.

God bless any corps that is willing to complete ONE musical phrase during their program. DCI should consider having "The People's Champion" and then the ever coveted, "Hardest, Fastest, Darkest, Loudest, Champion" .

Note counters should also be incorporated. The corps that plays the most notes wins! Yea!

Please make a point to witness the Scouts "Alumni Project" . As trite as it may seem to some, it will contain complete melodic lines and phrases. It will engage and CONNECT with the audience. They will make you SMILE, STAND, and also cry tears of joy for the historical, melodic, and emotional contnet of their program. They will be the hottest thing in Madison, except fot the temp. on the turf.

I can not agree or disagree with your points about their show myself - due to having not seen the corps yet. However, by the looks of their scores and placements so far, I'd say it's HIGHLY unlikely that they "won't make finals". Now, "top 5 again"? THAT may be a place where they realistically lose it but "out of finals"? Come on! Be realistic. They are already scoring in the mid 70s (it's still June) and ahead of way too many corps right now.

Edited by torn8o
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