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Regiment's "crass" sound


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Man, it's painful to watch the visual element of Regiment 2002, apologies to all who marched that show.

I've heard some bad sounds out of the sopranos in the opener so far...nothing terrible, but certainly a few people got over-eager and wanted to play the hero. The Buicks sound yummy. Gotta be honest with you, I don't watch this show often because while I love Shosty, the visual kills it for me, and I don't own the CDs. Listening to it now and not watching it...don't want to be distracted by the visuals.

Tim, you marched in 2002...can you tell us about the brass staff that year, and what you felt were differences heading into 2003 and 2004?

Also, what about the visual? Who wrote that show, was it Sanchez?

Oops, sop soloist in the Piano Concerto movement had some issues with tone.

Man, J.D. must have had a rough time arranging the 1st movement of the Piano Concerto. I'm not saying he did a bad job, far from it...but I've seen the score, and it must have been some rough nights for him figuring out how he wanted to orchestrate it. I think he learned a lesson on arranging piano concerti, because he's handled the Corigliano much differently, don't you think? The pit is much more involved in this year's than in 2002's.

Mellophones are a bit suspect (soundwise). I can see why people have some nits to pick with this show. Still find the buicky yummy though. :P

I'm not tim but i'll add a little.

In 2002 we were still trying to sound like a drum corps. Our tone was similar to that of regiment's for many years. The problem was that after 2001,2000 it was very shocking and even more shocking when compared side by side with that of BD, Cavaliers, Cadets (somewhat), and Bluecoats. Pedagogical differences in 02 were HUGE. Pete bond is still one of the people I respect the most in the music world. While I loved his teaching philosophies, it does not mesh well with the new age JD Shaw/Pilafian/Sheridan breathing gym and concept of sound.

Visually we were a bag. Joey Wever (who was a killer feet cleaner in 01) was gone and Bob Smith returned full time while we got a new drill writer. We went thru several versions of the same drill early on, even having to make some of our own drill to patch the problems in the Oswego, Illinois show (ironically the same show we didn't wear plumes and everyone thought we were going back to scrubbing bubbles).

If you listen to the track, right after the cluster chord and death----you hear one contra. That's me for 4 counts :-)

As for the sop soloist... her tone is funny because she isn't playing a sop.

The arrangements were different in because the percussion arranger was different. Mason didn't work well with others, he never really integrated the pit, just had them playing solo or not really at all. (i.e. 2001)

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To me, the term "crass" means edgy, thin, and overblown. Now excellent brass musicians can control edge, especially on the cylindrical instruments, such as the trumpet, trombone, and even the horn (whether you count that as a cylindrical or conical instrument). It is more difficult to push the conical instrument to the point of edge or an uncontrolled brightness.

Having said that, here are some opinions on crass and how it relates to corps.

1. Phantom Regiment is no more crass than any other corps. Name me one corps that has never had at least one crass moment, and I will show you a corps that made it a point to not play really loud in their show (such as the Cavaliers 2002). And most Cavalier horn lines have some real edge to them in the loud spots.

2. We tend to notice a corps being crass when the balance is out of whack. If the brass musicians all push to the same level, whether they are applying edge to the sound or not, the sound will present itself as controlled and loud with the balance being felt. If a player or two, or perhaps a section, sticks out of that texture/balance, then the fan notices those individual sounds much more than the full ensemble sound/blend that is desired.

3. I have never heard a Phantom show in which they were not, for the most part, accurately projecting the proper sense of style and sound considering their choice of music. Yes, there have been some rough performances for them, as with all corps.

4. Some of Phantom's rough performances would be 1985 and 1986, 1992 (at least at finals), 1997, and 1999. In 2003 they had some moments and simply didn't play the way they were capable, but I still love that music. had they played better, they would have won high brass.

5. There are just as many shows that I can list from each top corps, and others, in which the brass had rough nights, and where a sense of crass playing can be found.

6. Finally, to use this term for any bad brass performance is probably not the best indicator or definition of a performance quality. Drum corps and marching bands are supposed to play loud at times, and that means teaching the kids the best way to control the sound. Sometimes when we hear one person sticking out, and we end up thinking their sound is crass, what is often happening is that the person you heard stick out may actually be right, and that the rest of their section needs to come up to those levels before the balance will seem correct.

Edited by jwillis35
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As for the sop soloist... her tone is funny because she isn't playing a sop.

At the beginning of the ballad (Piano Concerto, mvmt II)? I'm looking at the screen right now, and that looks like a soprano...it's not a good angle though...i suppose it could be a fluegel or an alto...which is it?

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At the beginning of the ballad (Piano Concerto, mvmt II)? I'm looking at the screen right now, and that looks like a soprano...it's not a good angle though...i suppose it could be a fluegel or an alto...which is it?

Fluegel.

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I haven't heard them live in a long time so I could be off. Their sound does seem a bit airy to me. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE their sound. That's what I thought of when I heard crass, at least when thinking about Phantom. Either way, I like it when a hornline has some edge to it. While playing with a controlled sound is impressive, it doesn't generate the excitement, at least to me. Also, aren't they one of the only corps who use King? That might have something to do with it.

Speaking of instrument brand, I got to talk with som Blue Devils about their Dynasty trumpet and the guys I talked to thought they thought they sucked. Didn't matter to me, I love the Blue Devil trumpet sound, those guys rock.

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I've heard the charge bandied about that Regiment's sound is "crass" an awful lot.

I had one guy tell me that the way the Regiment brass staff teaches is obscene!

I read an article once that was an interview with Leonard Bernstein. He was discussing how each of the major orchestras of the United States had "unique" sounds. He claimed that he could, just by listening, tell which orchestra was playing and often who was conducting. And I have no doubt that he could.

I also remember him making a statement (can't give you an exact quote) that, in the Bernstein way, was basically saying the brass section of the Chicago Symphony could at times be "crass".

His point wasn't to be so much critical as it was to show how two symphonic ensembles, playing the same piece of music, could be so very different.

If Chicago Symphony brass = crass, I can live with Phantom Regiment brass = crass.

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Also, aren't they one of the only corps who use King? That might have something to do with it.

No. In 2003 we were the only ones, but now Blue Knights, Blue Stars, Boston Crusaders, Carolina Crown, Magic, and Southwind all play on Kings as well.

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