ChicagoFan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 That's a pretty tough argument to swallow. There's not much "remembering" going on when you are talking about a show you just left vs. a show that happened 30 years ago. Notice my post didn't say "remembering" but "viewing" the present through rose-colored glasses. There seem to be a handful of members on DCP that rush to the defense of modern drum corps regardless of the topic at hand. They seem intent on proving that present-day corps are in every way superior to that which came before and that those of us who, perhaps, remember otherwise are out of touch or too set in our ways to accept any other opinion. I admit that drum corps has evolved and changed a great deal since I first became involved and that most of what we just witnessed in Madison was light years ahead of what I once did (at least in terms of technique and demand). However, in terms of crowd reaction and -- dare I say it -- entertainment value I feel corps of the past have the edge. Am I suggesting that today's drum corps are, somehow, not as good as the ones of my era? Am I naive enough to think that our company fronts and rotating arcs were as difficult as the lightning-fast drill we see today? Does "Turkey in the Straw" equal the complexity of a Mahler symphony? Am I in any way implicating today's corps as being inferior to those of the past? In all cases, no. However, to blindly embrace every aspect of modern drum corps at the expense of the past is, in my opinion, akin to viewing the present through rose-colored glasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekneek Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 While true that huge impacts do tend to garner some big responses, there are also many times where the more subdued moments brought responses that simply built to thunderous applause eventually. Also, why is resonse always judged on volume alone? If a corps can perform so emotionally that it leaves the entire audience breathless and just sitting there in total awe and wonder, is that not an incredible response? How many times can you honestly saw a performance on the field was able to move 20,000 fans to silence? It's happened - few and far between - but it's happened. Are these not phenominal crowd reactions too? I can agree with that. I also think they have great impact when the horn line has great dynamic range. From a totally personal standpoint, I want a hornline that can wow me with quiet stuff and then blow me off my seat in the same show. Few this year seemed like they even wanted to try to blow anybody back. Shows ended with whimpers when I wanted them to roar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRyder_FMM Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Notice my post didn't say "remembering" but "viewing" the present through rose-colored glasses.There seem to be a handful of members on DCP that rush to the defense of modern drum corps regardless of the topic at hand. They seem intent on proving that present-day corps are in every way superior to that which came before and that those of us who, perhaps, remember otherwise are out of touch or too set in our ways to accept any other opinion. I still don't get your point. How does one "view" the present through rose-colored glasses. Are you telling us that we were seeing things (i.e., that crowd reaction we just saw or were part of really didn't happen)? I don't see anyone here trying to prove that present-day drum corps are in every way superior to what came before. I see many of us (which inlcude some folks that have been around for quite some time) clearly stating that present day drum corps is at least as good as what came before. I only see old timers putting down modern day drum corps as inferior to those of the past. In this thred, the vehicle used to prove that point was audience reactions. Many of us are pointing out that this argument does not hold water, because the audience reactions have not changed over the years. This is not saying drum corps of the past is bad - just defending the point that present-day drum corps is at least as good. The audience reactiona rgument simply does not prove anything, because there just simply has not been much change in audience reaction over the years. It seems quite clear that some of the "old timers" are one that refuse to accept any opinion but their own. Entertainment is subjective. There is no "proof" that can be found - especially in comparisons to audience reaction. Blindly embracing the past as so superior to the present based on "rememberence" of audience reactions that didn't happen (meaning every corps receiving multiple standing ovations) is viewing hte past with rose-colored glasses. The past was great. The present is great. Both are different. There has been change and evolution. The "entertainment" argument will never be won by anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 What is that big head in the second photo? It looks like something out of a Sid & Marty Krofft show.It's hard to tell anything from those two photos, to be honest with you. I know...just showing captures from the video. You need to see the videos to see folks chattig, sitting, applauding, etc..pretty much as they do today. The big head is some guy in a golf hat...told you they sat in the stands to video these old shows! Charlie and his wife Jackie were the team who did this. Charlie told me he would man a huge reel-to-reel set up below the stands, and his wife Jackie was the camera-person with a huge camera that ran via a cable down to the recorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 The past was great. The present is great. Both are different. There has been change and evolution. The "entertainment" argument will never be won by anyone. Tim: Don't give up so quickly...the flailing of wooden swords at giant windmills that some aspire to is caused by the mere facts at hand. DCA last year...approximately 8K in attendance DCA this year...estimates at 7K as a sell out This is today's version of olde tyme drum corps. DCI last year...22K and an ESPN2 contract AND one of ESPN2s largest viewing audience...according to ESPN...not DCI. DCI this year...24k+ and a renewal of an ESPN2 contract The majority of the fans agree based on paying for tickets and viewing on television that THEY find DCI entertaining. These are undeniable facts...more people bought tickets to DCI shows than ever in the past. Look at Atlanta this year. Entertainment speaks with $$$. When people don't like what's being produced entertainment-wise, they speak with their pocketbooks...God, that phrase is so dated. Tom Brace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I know that Regiment in particular chose horns to carry on the volume they've been known for. They play Kings. As does Crown. IMO it's more a matter of how the staffs wants the sound produced from their hornlines than it is the horns, esp those who use the newer large bore instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoFan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I still don't get your point. How does one "view" the present through rose-colored glasses. Are you telling us that we were seeing things (i.e., that crowd reaction we just saw or were part of really didn't happen)? I'm not telling you that you were seeing things any more than you seem to be telling me I was seeing things, when I clearly remember (and have my memory supported by evidence -- both empirical and otherwise) differences in crowd reaction through the years. As to not getting my point -- I don't think it's so hard to "get." Some people view the past through rose-colored glasses in that they see everything as rosy back then. They remember it as better than it really was. Others seem to be viewing the present through the same lens. They are so caught up with the here and now; so enamoured of the experience that they cannot see it objectively. They refuse to see any problems or shortcomings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Smith Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 I still don't get your point. How does one "view" the present through rose-colored glasses. Are you telling us that we were seeing things (i.e., that crowd reaction we just saw or were part of really didn't happen)?I don't see anyone here trying to prove that present-day drum corps are in every way superior to what came before. I see many of us (which inlcude some folks that have been around for quite some time) clearly stating that present day drum corps is at least as good as what came before. I only see old timers putting down modern day drum corps as inferior to those of the past. In this thred, the vehicle used to prove that point was audience reactions. Many of us are pointing out that this argument does not hold water, because the audience reactions have not changed over the years. This is not saying drum corps of the past is bad - just defending the point that present-day drum corps is at least as good. The audience reactiona rgument simply does not prove anything, because there just simply has not been much change in audience reaction over the years. It seems quite clear that some of the "old timers" are one that refuse to accept any opinion but their own. Entertainment is subjective. There is no "proof" that can be found - especially in comparisons to audience reaction. Blindly embracing the past as so superior to the present based on "rememberence" of audience reactions that didn't happen (meaning every corps receiving multiple standing ovations) is viewing hte past with rose-colored glasses. The past was great. The present is great. Both are different. There has been change and evolution. The "entertainment" argument will never be won by anyone. As the originator of the topic, let me say that my question was not a veiled attempt to deem any particular era better than the other. It was simply a question based on my personal experience at semi-finals. It was an attempt to see if crowd reactions have changed, and I think there seems to be a general consensus that they have. There have been some very compelling explanations why. I guess we're all free to pick and choose which reasons we like the best. But would you not objectively say that the crowd responses are in fact different that say 25 years ago? You can answer it simply without fear that you are implying anything. I think we should start a club, called the "I Like Drum Corps Club". Sounds pretty stupid, but there is so much talking past one another (I'm sure I've engaged in some of it myself). Those who have written the activity off probably don't really participate on dcp all that much, wouldn't you agree? Hi, my name is Granny, and I like drum corps. (In unison, you should all be saying, "Hi Granny! Welcome!") I have favorite shows that cover nearly every decade and us seasoned ones are on this message board contributing because we like drum corps. We may happen to like it rare, while others like it well done, but we all like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 The past was great. The present is great. Both are different. There has been change and evolution. The "entertainment" argument will never be won by anyone. My firm belief is that every era of drum corps was the very best it could be for it's time, and that each subsequent era has built on the foundation of what came before. I am very happy that 'today' is better than 'yesterday', whatever dates you choose to use in your comparison. Otherwise...it will eventually die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourouttheforty Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 As a marching member this past season, I'd have to say the crowd was pretty flippin' awesome all three nights :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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