DCA PERC RULES REVIEW

[Storkysr]

I would like the opinions of the people on this board regarding the following:

I beleive that DCA percussion adjudication has devolved into a subjective mess. The revival of the TICK SYSTEM MAY NOT BE THE ANSWER but, IMHO, we need to reward performance on a particular night in a more objective and accountable manner. This applies to I&E adjudication as well.

Before any of you call me a "bitter old man" as I have been classified on another thread, you should know that I am 55 years old and have been active in DCA percussion pretty consistently since 1968.

I am a huge fan of DCI and "modern" developments in field percussion. There is something wrong, however, when visuals and poor attempts at hybrid and neo-rudiments are scored equal to or higher than musicality, difficulty and (especially)execution. It shouldn't be about throwing down as many beats as you can regardless of quality. The snare line I have worked with for the past 2 years averaged about 16.5 yrs of age. We played Scott Johnson charts and, although we are not world beaters at this point, we try to stress technique and musicianship- although I would venture to say that our "content/demand" was equal to any DCA corps on the field.

It is discouraging to see so much credit given for "throwing down" without the development of the tools necessarry to do so. There is no shortcut for quality.

A friend and fellow instructor has informed me that this is a rules change year, so this is a timely subject.

DISCUSSION/OPINIONS?

Edited September 10, 2006 by Storkysr

[TenorsForWorldDomination]

Bill Stork, I met you briefly at a White Sabers camp last winter, I agree that the DCA percussion area needs some serious work or re-consideration on certain catagories, aspects, and concepts. Another area that I find is very inconsistant is judges tapes to sheets. You can have a tape that makes it sound like you won drums that night, but get absolutely BAGGED on the sheets. Could that be agendas by certain judges? Or could it be they are 110% familiar with the sheets and the structure of those sheets?

I'm quite certain 1 judge had an agenda in 1 year of DCA, but I won't say who, nor will I say what year it was but it was clearly obvious.

Do judges have to go through any formal training anymore? Don't they have to know how to arrange? Teach? March? Sometimes I wonder if the judges can even play the advanced beats we are playing these days. Or could they march the drills and play with the musicality, technique, and showmanship we do these days?

I guess it all comes down to inconsistancy. I really can't say much because I have always just been a marching member, and I shouldn't worry about such things, but I love to analyze and I'm a practical thinker. I want to know what I'm doing and everything about what I'm doing. What makes it work? How does it work? I'm just one of those kinds of people.

This past winter really opened my eyes to certain aspects of the marching activity that I had never got to experience. I owe that all to Rick Rogers. He is pure class and while he hypes with the best of him, he has a good head on his shoulders. He's a never ending knowledge tree!

[Storkysr]

Adam,

Yup, inconsistency is a big concern of mine. Good questions about judges qualifications. As it's been quite a few years since I judged and I am not absolutely certain on this point so maybe some others can help us all out by furnishing that info. I have been communicating with Rick, among others, and he has some good ideas.

This is what I posted on Rudimental Drumming.com earlier today:

Thanks All,

There are some very excellent viewpoints here. Keep 'em coming! Let's keep the lines of communication open for another week. Sometime around next Monday (9/18/06) I will compile, condense and add my recommendations and present them on this thread for your review. This is a great start!

So....I know the thought of a "TIC" system is not popular. Can anyone explain to me what your primary objections are?

Keep in mind that this is for DCA only. It may very well be an excersize in futility but there seems to be enough concern about rules reform to at least warrant discussion. I will take it as far as I can. Thanks.

_________________

Edited September 12, 2006 by Storkysr

[drumnman2004]

Adam,

Yup, inconsistency is a big concern of mine. Good questions about judges qualifications. As it's been quite a few years since I judged and I am not absolutely certain on this point so maybe some others can help us all out by furnishing that info. I have been communicating with Rick, among others, and he has some good ideas.

This is what I posted on Rudimental Drumming.com earlier today:

Thanks All,

There are some very excellent viewpoints here. Keep 'em coming! Let's keep the lines of communication open for another week. Sometime around next Monday (9/18/06) I will compile, condense and add my recommendations and present them on this thread for your review. This is a great start!

So....I know the thought of a "TIC" system is not popular. Can anyone explain to me what your primary objections are?

Keep in mind that this is for DCA only. It may very well be an excersize in futility but there seems to be enough concern about rules reform to at least warrant discussion. I will take it as far as I can. Thanks.

_________________

RULES CHANGE BUMP

[Jeff Ream]

i wouls day performance on the field doesnt always equal performance upstairs, and that's where the issues come in.

as for wanting to know how people get selected to judge DCA percussion, contact the DCA percussion caption head.

more than a few of the guys out there have been judging DCA for a while..some straight thru, some took a break and came back. some newer faces are people that whose resumes that I know of have considerable knowledge of the marching arts, one of which is a legend whos stuff every drummer jams to.

[kusankusho]

I like the emphasis that a tic system puts on execution - but that comes at the expense of pushing the line in terms of demand. The demand caption doesn't outweigh the tic sheet so it can lead to stagnation through playing it "safe". IMHO the writing has come a long way since the tic system was taken out.

[Storkysr]

Conceptual Problems with the Current System-Uniformity:

Page 50 of the current DCA rules book espouses that the basis of all judging is to be “Uniformity” yet methods of accreditation and ranking for it’s achievement are well hidden among the four major sub captions. Uniformity (or execution as we used to call it), as it applies to a section (snares, tenors, etc) is theoretically a “digital” event (either a mistake is present or it isn’t-no in between). It is generally clear to all when something is dirty from an audible/mechanical standpoint. The best way to represent a digital event as a function of either time or offender is with a data point (a “TIC”). A series of data points (the performance) is combined to form a linear function. There is no art and very little interpretation required for adjudication in this manner and the result is a clear and unambiguous depiction of where and when a mistake occurred. This makes it easier to address and subsequently correct.

The problem of inconsistency of mistake detection remains as a result of the physical location of the judge relative to the offending section and variability in the different judge’s “tolerance of error” (nothing is perfect). However, these problems also exist with any other type of adjudication system and are currently compounded by nebulous definitions of musicality, artistic expression, style and musical taste. I believe that these areas should be addressed separately. Uniformity (the HOW) should be more clearly distinguished from the other musical considerations (the WHAT). This is done most effectively by means of a demerit, or “TIC” system. Yes, this system has it’s problems but far fewer, in my opinion, than the system that is currently used for the evaluation of “Uniformity”-which, I agree, should be the basis for all judging.

The most common reason for reluctance to adapt the “TIC” system that I have heard from the judging community is that it is a form of punishment, not reward. WOW! Welcome to the real world! Life isn’t about constant reward and neither should be a realistic adjudication system.

Another argument used against the "TIC" system is that it limits creativity . This is not an inherent problem with this method of execution analysis but merely has to do with the recognition and appropriate weighting of "DEMAND" caption relative to execution. IMHO demand should be considered not only as a specific sub-caption, but should also be evaluated as part of the EFFECT caption, thereby providing further incentive for difficulty and creativity.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Storkysr

[Storkysr]

one of which is a legend whos stuff every drummer jams to.

Yeah, I LOVE MARK, if that is who you are referring to. We are fortunate to have his knowledge. Wish we had more like him.

[Jeff]

The actual reasons that execution judging by ticking was eliminated had little to due with punishment. It was money. Judging panels in the tick era required 14 people. In the DCI arena, the panels were cut to 9 from 12, along with a T&P judge to shoot the gun and a tabulator to count the ticks. As someone who has judged extensively for the past 30 years, the tick system has not been mentioned since the 1980's and ranks up with marching tympani and one valved bugles as something you will likely not see in DCA competition.

The current system evaluates the total performance, both good and bad. Ticks are only a tally of the most gross, obvious errors and IMHO not an indicator of excellence or a tool for improvement. It is a non-musical means of judging music. In addition, determining which errors are ticks and which aren't is just as subjective or perhaps more so than the current achievement based system. The use of cassette recorders in judging performance allows greater communication with the performers. A sheet full of ticks is not as meaningful.

Jeff Mitchell, Bush Program Consultant

Edited September 17, 2006 by Jeff

[Jeff Ream]

I like the emphasis that a tic system puts on execution - but that comes at the expense of pushing the line in terms of demand. The demand caption doesn't outweigh the tic sheet so it can lead to stagnation through playing it "safe". IMHO the writing has come a long way since the tic system was taken out.

the problem here is your tic may not be my tic...so in essence, it's really subjective anyway