DCA PERC RULES REVIEW

[tempotantrum]

I'll leave you with this..."did the BEST drumline win percussion at the DCA championships" ?

Yes.

"This thread is bunk."

[drumnman2004]

Yes.

"This thread is bunk."

Who is this...Neil Sylvia !! Just kidding !!!!

[TastyWaves]

Tony,

I'm not answering for Bill...but we DO have the same agenda ! Personally, I think he's asking for a bit much to even consider getting it passed by the voting members in DCA, but I'm excited that he's on a mission to encourage change !

My thoughts are that the field percussion would still utilize one judge on the field to eveluate both performance errors and musicality. I would think that 100 tenths (10 points) should be quite enough to subtract performance errors from. This single judge would use his 'counter clicker' every time a performance error occurs while commentating on the tape...in essence he never has to look down and actually write anything until he's writing down his score at the end of the corps performance. He would check the clicker...subtract the number of errors from 100 tenths (10 points) then add in the musicality/demand number (built up from 10 points) for your total field percussion score. I also believe that the pit should also be included within the same guidelines for batterie because they are in fact...PERCUSSION ! If they don't play counterpoint well...it's an error (-.1), and if they have a difficult book and are quite musical...they get a good musicality/demand number (unless it's masked by a multitude of errors).

As far as training the judges goes...I don't believe that there has been a clinic of ANY kind in years ! Let me tell you what we used to do :

This goes back a few years, but when Joe Wormworth and Bill McGrath were in charge of percussion for the NY Federation of Contest Judges a judge had to know not only how to play, but also how to write to even be considered as a judge ! We would have live demonstrations (duo's or small ensembles) to make sure we were all on the same page as far as 'performance errors' were concerned and we would watch and critique tapes of both drum corps and marching bands and arrive at a score for effect, then have productive discussion on how we arrived at our numbers.

As a matter of fact, you didn't judge if you weren't at the clinic (which was normally a 2 day event...and at your OWN expense) ! There are many new techniques and rudiments (per se) that some of these gentlemen are NOT up to date with. How many of these guys have opened the Bachman tenor book and actually tried to play some of this stuff ? It's one thing to recognize tenor technique...and a totally different thing to play it well ! Catching rims on every other crossover is NOT PLAYING IT WELL ! That's an ATTEMPT (at best) in my book !

How many of these judges have seen a cymbal tenique book and can recognize and comment on the MANY techniques that are presented before them ?

Simply put...how can these people make competent evaluation if they don't know of or can't recognize what's presented to them ?

I'll leave you with this..."did the BEST drumline win percussion at the DCA championships" ?

...ain't I a stinker !

Bugs Bunny

Rick Rogers

I appreciate your viewpoints sir, and tho i dont agre with many of them, i appreciate your taking your time to explain it. ACtually, i shouldt say i disagree, rather i just dont know how effective it would be for the reasons ive already stated earlier in the thread.

As far as "did the BEST drumline win percussion at the DCA champions?" question,

I was on the field and didnt get the oppertunity to see the others so im not in a position to say yes or no.

Bugs bunny rules

(next to snoopy)

Tony

[drumnman2004]

I appreciate your viewpoints sir, and tho i dont agre with many of them, i appreciate your taking your time to explain it. ACtually, i shouldt say i disagree, rather i just dont know how effective it would be for the reasons ive already stated earlier in the thread.

As far as "did the BEST drumline win percussion at the DCA champions?" question,

I was on the field and didnt get the oppertunity to see the others so im not in a position to say yes or no.

Bugs bunny rules

(next to snoopy)

Tony

Tony:

I'd love to hear what you are in disagreement with ! I do think that educating the judges will be of the utmost importance for the future of DCA. This may clear up some of your concerns that you stated earlier.

Rick Rogers

[Storkysr]

ok...so who will define what is officially a tick and what isn't. it was never universally defined before.

Non uniform execution within a section (intra-section) due to rhythmic or stylistic interpretation differences. These mistakes shall be identified on the sheets by section (snare, tenor, bass, cymbals, inter-section s-t, inter-section t-b, etc.) and on the tape under one of the following: taps, flams, diddles, double stroke rolls, drags, single stroke rolls, compound rolls, compound rudiments, hybrid rudiments, inter- section tempo distortion and inter-section clarity (uniformity when attempting the same musical responsibility in two or more sections simultaneously).

• When a “section” is comprised of only one individual the execution adjudication is accomplished as for an individual competition with the addition of consideration to inter-sectional responsibilities.

for demand, who decides what is hard or not...do certain required elements have to be in place?

Battery Demand: This sub-caption is defined as all elements that contribute to the difficulty of a performance. The following elements are to be considered and credited a maximum of five points each:

• Musical Complexity (5.0-build): A measure of the degree of dexterity and intricacy. Consider flams, inverts, ruffs, control of crescendos and decrescendos (shaping) difficult visuals, 32nd note singlet or diddle passages, triple stroke rolls, single sticking, compound rudiments, drum to drum splits (tenors and bass), etc.

• Mental Demand (5.0- build): Includes credit given for timing (such as an “exposed” attack such as tutti or section attacks following unsupported section tacits), unusual time signatures, syncopation, accent patterns, tempo changes or phrasing that requires a high degree of mental focus.

• Physical demand (5.0-build): A measure of how physically taxing the musical repertoire is. Consider speed (tempo and # of beats per unit time) and endurance (including tacit abuse). The increased demand required to march while playing is considered here.

technique is self explanatory, except some people do hold it against you for using the techniques they may not like.

and this leaves the pit out to dry.

Pit is evaluated from the box, technique is defined:

C) Battery Technique: This sub-caption is defined as the quality of sound produced as a function of appropriate and uniform implement grip and stroke control. Consider selection of appropriate playing zones on the instrument, uniformity of stick heights and angles and sound volumes produced by individuals within a section. Note that this is not an assessment of the suitability of any particular style but of the uniformity of the chosen technique as it applies to the considerations mentioned

Note that the roles of the BOX JUDGE (GE, Pit execution) are still being refined. Flame on.........

[Jeff Ream]

I guess you'll have to point out to me which subcaption deals with 'playing together' and how the score is arrived at ! You might say that the criteria is so VAGUE now that a judge will rank before he rates with a preconceived order BEFORE he judges the show !

I had to ask in more than one show how a particular judge arrived at a given number based on his verbal commentary. It was quite obvious that he was simply pulling numbers 'out of the air' to rank the competitors while paying no attention what-so-ever to the vagueness of the criteria on the back of the sheet. Even if he had followed the simple guidelines scores would have been at least 2 points higher. More than ever it is obvious that our present system doesn't work.

There will be no ranking with a 'performance error' subcaption on the field sheet. IT IS WHAT IT IS !

uh musicality?

[Jeff Ream]

ticks are easy,,,,,it' clean(in perfect unison) or dirty ,,,a tick

and as cited before, given everyones different tolerances and tuning schemes, your tick may not be my tick.

next try?

[Jeff Ream]

We may actually have to RE-EDUCATE the judges...GO FIGURE !

The Constitution has held up for 230 years because there were men that put it together that knew what was needed. At the risk of sounding 'old fashioned', we should dig back into the archives and pull out what worked. Our drumming forefathers were not stupid and one of the ONLY reasons I can think of as to why DCA's system is like it is is because we were 'preached to' about following in DCI's philosophy. We are a totally different animal ! Let's see the DCI lines do what we do with just weekends !

Jeff...most of your concerns have been covered at one time or another within the last 20 years or so, but I've been judging since 1976 and I've been watching our system dwindle at the hands of most of our 'degree smart' friends. We must bring back a certain level of integrity within the percussion caption before we become nothing more than a traveling circus...

like DCI ! (sorry if I hurt anyones feelings)

which i disagree with, because, IMO, since the people in charge took over, the quality of DCA percussion has skyrocketed.

5 years ago you had 4 good lines and eh the rest.

now, you have 7/8 really good lines, 5 or 6 getting closer, and the rest.

[Jeff Ream]

Pit is evaluated from the box, technique is defined:

C) Battery Technique: This sub-caption is defined as the quality of sound produced as a function of appropriate and uniform implement grip and stroke control. Consider selection of appropriate playing zones on the instrument, uniformity of stick heights and angles and sound volumes produced by individuals within a section. Note that this is not an assessment of the suitability of any particular style but of the uniformity of the chosen technique as it applies to the considerations mentioned

Note that the roles of the BOX JUDGE (GE, Pit execution) are still being refined. Flame on.........

pit should be judged from the field too.

and you wont get a seperate GE perc judge without a total rewrite of the sheets.

[Storkysr]

and as cited before, given everyones different tolerances and tuning schemes, your tick may not be my tick.

next try?

Which is the case with any attempt to numerically quantify the perception of a performance by humans. This isn't inherent to the "TICK" system. The TICK system actually clarifies the opinion by imposing unambiguous (or less ambiguous) parameters as well as documentation of where and when the mistake ocurred.