Not good...not good

[JimF-LowBari]

Well, I think you may be right about that. But I think there are more than just 12 organizations that have strong leadership, funding and a smart business plan (I think a corps can be successful without ever competing for a top-12 spot). And I agree that DCI focuses too much on the top 12 in their marketing and exposure. But we must also consider that DCI should put their money into marketing those organizations that make DCI look the best and bring in the most money. They have to invest their marketing dollars wisely...but the neglect of Div. 2 & 3 and the bottom half of Div. 1 may have long term negative effects that could work against DCI down the road.

M

Yeah I did pull the number 12 out of my rear end. :P More realistic I'd guess 15-20 touring corps if things continue.

And agree with second part of your post. My familys background used to be the auto field and the marketing and long term goals are closer than one might think. Auto companies have their big money maker SUVs and that's where most of the advertising dollar goes. However the auto makers also do not neglect to keep the smaller cars (where less is made per car) in the public eye for two reasons.

1) Short term goal - to get a share of the market of people who can only afford the cheaper cars

2) Long term goal - when a person buying the cheaper car CAN afford to buy the money maker SUV it's easier to sell that SUV to a customer who is already buying your (cheaper) car. aka - Already in your Show Room

That's why I can't understand why DCI doesn't publize Div II/III more as "not ready for the top corps yet, here's a way to march now". It would help Div II/III corps and (IMO) also protect DCI in the long run. My opinion is anything that helps any segment of DC, be it Div I/II/III, All Age, Alumni, whatever, helps all segments of the activity.

[audiodb]

But I think there are more than just 12 organizations that have strong leadership, funding and a smart business plan (I think a corps can be successful without ever competing for a top-12 spot).

That may be. But how many are stable? I used to think Kiwanis Kavaliers and Troopers were among that group you refer to - until they halted operations. I used to think....well, I don't want to single anyone else out, but there are other corps, even among the most successful in all divisions, who are in financial panic mode right now. I don't see any corps as immune, no matter how strong their "business plan" or what-have-you.

Which brings us to.... (see next post)

[audiodb]

The true problem today is that there is not nearly enough new growth to compensate for the yearly erosion.

Wise words. Since no one has yet solved the attrition problem, the only way to keep the activity from shrinking is to form new corps at least as fast as the attrition rate. So for all those who can't understand why some of us urge DCI to be more supportive of division II/III - here's a big reason why.

[SpookyKid]

Is drum corps getting smaller? Let's look at the numbers. Here's the breakdown of corps that competed at DCI Finals week since 1991. I picked that year because that is when they renamed A & A-60 to Division 2 & 3, and when they stopped doing Prelims. Up until 2003, Division 2 & 3 corps could compete at Division I for top 12. The number in parenthesis is the actual number of Division I corps. Also note that both the Troopers and Kiwanis Kavaliers did not compete in 2006 so they could reorganzied their finacial situation.

You will note that Division III numbers are all over the place. I would say that this would be due to two reasons. First, as one poster said earlier, many of these smaller corps are "Mom and Pop" corps and unfortunately make mistakes because they don't realize what it takes to keep a corps going. The other factor, and one I think is more signifigant is the travel involved for some of these smaller corps. I noticed that the entries for division III were regional based. So, for example, when you have the championships in Buffalo, you are probably going to get a lot of East Coast corps showing up that would not be there for say a championship in Denver or Dallas. Hopefully, with the championships being located more centrally in one location will make it easier for smaller corps to plan accordingly and increase the numbers competing at division III.

Looking at the numbers with division I & II, it seems to me that drum corps is climbing back up. The numbers have stayed consistent and are larger than they have in the recent past.

Personally, I think things are looking up for DCI. The move to Indianapolis is a very good one. The Regional Championships have had good attendance. You have some corps (Academy) that are going and will be competing at Division I very soon. Some corps (Troopers, VK) are on the comeback trail. It also seems that there are more corps getting started (who would have thought that there would be competitive drum corps from places like Arizona and Texas?).

It seems like DCI is getting more involved with helping corps out when they are in trouble. In the past, some of these corps would have floundered and died out. I would like to see more workshops where corps directors can get help with keeping their corps on solid ground. As I said earlier, I think the people that run Arizona Academy should do a workshop on how they accomplished what they did. Maybe they could bring in other people across drum corps who have been able to keep their corps running with few problems.

The telecasts the last couple of years have been great PR primers for non-drum corps people. And that kind of exposure is need to bring in new fans and new members.

However, I think this growth is very fragile. It would not take much to destroy all the progress made in the last few years. DCI needs to take an continuing interest in not only the finacial shape of the corps but also on how they are treating their members. A lot of good guidance would help many of the small and up and coming corps.

I do think that DCI needs to promote Div 2 & 3 much better. We need another Pepe right now. These corps need better and more deserving coverage. How about a Div 2&3 Finals telecast then? People need to see what incredible stuff these smaller corps are doing. I think these organiztions deserve a lot more respect than they are getting.

DCI needs to continue to promote the product in general. Get corps to show up in videos, and tv, and in movies. Get more of the word out there about this great activity.

Another key is alumni. There are undoubtely thousands upon thousands who have marched in a drum corps of some kind, whether it was a parade corps or the defending Division I Champion. DCI needs to help promote All-age corps and alumni corps. The more involved the alumni are with the activity again, the better chance of that converting into finacial and volunteer assistance.

I think though that the biggest problem that DCI has is that as a youth activity, it is having to compete with so much, from other school activities, to after school activities, to entertainment, to wanting money to get stuff. Declining numbers are problem a lot of organizations are dealing with. I have talked to Scoutmasters, coaches, and other band directors. The problem with declining numbers is happening in a lot of places.

Another problem is the overall attitude with many kids today. We live in a society of instant gratification. They want the best and NOW! It's the way society moves now and it moves fast. If you don't believe me, why is it that so many kids jump ship after a year or two from a division III corps to a division I corps or disparage the smaller corps because they aren't "The Cavaliers" or "The Cadets" or "The Blue Devils"? This in itself is one of the biggest problems and it is a true quandry. You have to have kids who are willing to be patient to achieve success. It takes an incredible amount of work to accomplish that.

There are a lot of good things going on and hopefully with the right decisions, DCI will continue to move in a good direction. The problem that do exist are very complex ones that exist outside the medium.

Edited September 18, 2006 by SpookyKid

[JimF-LowBari]

Intersting chart thanks.... Started responding unitl I saw this was corps at DCI Finals and not just number of corps that existed that year.

Also location of DCI Finals probably held some Div III corps from making the trip. Not knwing locations off the top of my head, that should be interesting.

Edited September 18, 2006 by JimF-xWSMBari

[audiodb]

Is drum corps getting smaller? Let's look at the numbers. Here's the breakdown of corps that competed at DCI Finals week since 1991.

You know, there are other corps besides just the ones that travel to DCI Championships.

If you count them, here are the totals for how many North American junior corps competed each year:

1991 113

1992 118

1993 115

1994 114

1995 101

1996 103

1997 98

1998 88

1999 88

2000 82

2001 71

2002 69

2003 70

2004 60

2005 59

2006 55

[Walter]

You know, there are other corps besides just the ones that travel to DCI Championships.

If you count them, here are the totals for how many North American junior corps competed each year:

1991 113

1992 118

1993 115

1994 114

1995 101

1996 103

1997 98

1998 88

1999 88

2000 82

2001 71

2002 69

2003 70

2004 60

2005 59

2006 55

So in 15 years we've lost HALF of the competing corps !!! :(

YIKES !!!! b**bs b**bs b**bs

[jafar]

i love lamp

[xXDSFLXx]

...k

^OO^

[Blackstar]

We can put out all the numbers we want but most people will think DCI is doing well. It is, but the activity is dying.

DCI is making money because the staduims are filled but individual corps are hurting.

We have the number three corps with a 1/4 million dollar debt and possible future legal action.

An icon in the Troopers not fielding a corps.

Things are not good, but having the championships in Indy will help. But more marketing needs to be done to help the smaller corps.

Think about this. If I'm on the top of the heap, do I really want to help someone knock me off? How much help am I really going to give a future competitor?

Until other segments of the activity gets more say in day to day operations then things won't really change.

It doesn't matter to me because DCA will be passing them by soon anyway.