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Bugles VS Trumpets


LSU GRAD 82

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You might consider that each change in brass instrumentation has brought new companies into the market. With only Kanstul and Dynasty making 3 valve bugles, the switch to multikey added King and Yamaha. When Dynasty was the only 2 valve bugle producer, adding the third valve induced Kanstul to make a bugle line. When only Olds was making valve rotary bugles, going to 2 valves brought in Dynasty, King, American Heritage/Benge, and Getzen.

Competition produces lower prices and better instruments according to free market theory.

For many years, percussion lines have received deals on their equipment. It has never been much of an issue. Now that brass lines are getting equal treatment it's a problem to some. IMHO, it was long overdue.

Yamaha, being a Japanese company, I think would be restricted from just giving away that much product. Foreign companies aren't allowed to dump their products in the US. Free horns seems like dumping to me. We're not talking just a few thousand dollars here. 2oo instruments at a retail average of a thousand dollars per instrument = $200,000.

Edited by Martybucs
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You might consider that each change in brass instrumentation has brought new companies into the market. With only Kanstul and Dynasty making 3 valve bugles, the switch to multikey added King and Yamaha. When Dynasty was the only 2 valve bugle producer, adding the third valve induced Kanstul to make a bugle line. When only Olds was making valve rotary bugles, going to 2 valves brought in Dynasty, King, American Heritage/Benge, and Getzen.

Competition produces lower prices and better instruments according to free market theory.

For many years, percussion lines have received deals on their equipment. It has never been much of an issue. Now that brass lines are getting equal treatment it's a problem to some. IMHO, it was long overdue.

King was not a new company in fact they made very good G bugles for a long time. the only new company in this game is yamaha, who did not made G bugles. the American Heritage were made by Kanstul for Benge. Zig Kanstul also designed the King bugles.

Dynasty was NEVER the only 2 valve bugle producer.

When you say going to 2 valves "brought in" Dynasty, those were actually made by Getzen who already made bugles anyway.

the free market theory doesnt' work here because the drum corps activity is too small, and shrinking rapidly. read the DCW story about the alarming decline in the drum corps activity. hundreds of corps down to 60 in only 30 years.

the activity has changed to include "any key" horns. the only new company in this is yamaha, who has a long histroy of flooding the marketplace with their products to acheive immediate penetration.

but I admit this tinfoil hat is starting to chafe a little bit

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Yamaha doesn't need to achieve "market penetration," they're already well inside the musical instrument market. Handing over hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of free equipment to a bunch of drum corps is simply insane, and doesn't happen no matter what the drum corps rumor mill thinks.

Yes, King is not new, but it's been a long time since they made a serious effort to produce quality marching brass, since well before they were acquired by UMI. There was a period after they ceased production but before Kanstul started building bugles that Dynasty was the only producer for 2v horns; Jeff can address that more precisely since he was more closely involved in those events. And Dynasties were not made by Getzen, it's the marching line of Donald E. Getzen (DEG), not the same company.

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. And Dynasties were not made by Getzen, it's the marching line of Donald E. Getzen (DEG), not the same company.

Actually, for a long time Dynasty instruments, all of them, were made by Allied Music Corporation the former parent company of Getzen.

DEG is a seperate company, but they did not actually manufacture the bugles. Now the Getzen company is family owned again and owns Allied Music, still the manufacturer of Dynasty, I believe.

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King was not a new company in fact they made very good G bugles for a long time. the only new company in this game is yamaha, who did not made G bugles. the American Heritage were made by Kanstul for Benge. Zig Kanstul also designed the King bugles.

At the time the multi-key rule was passed...only Dynasty and Kanstul were making G horns...if you go back far enough there have been lots of companies who made them...irrelevant to the current times.

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Yamaha, being a Japanese company, I think would be restricted from just giving away that much product. Foreign companies aren't allowed to dump their products in the US. Free horns seems like dumping to me. We're not talking just a few thousand dollars here. 2oo instruments at a retail average of a thousand dollars per instrument = $200,000.

Corps are not 'given' the horns for free. They do get a quantity discount, as any organization that is purchasing large quantities would. That's why you see corps selling their horns...they purchased them. They probably also get a discount if they are used in advertising.

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Corps are not 'given' the horns for free. They do get a quantity discount, as any organization that is purchasing large quantities would. That's why you see corps selling their horns...they purchased them. They probably also get a discount if they are used in advertising.

I never said Yamaha or anyone else was giving out free horns. Yes, you're a 100% wrong about this :)

However, I did earlier post this here. Wonder if anyone bought it.

And if you forward this post to everyone you know as an attachment in an email, Bill Gates and Microsoft will not only give you new horns and drums and uniforms, but each member will get a marching laptop.

Edited by Martybucs
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King was not a new company in fact they made very good G bugles for a long time. the only new company in this game is yamaha, who did not made G bugles. the American Heritage were made by Kanstul for Benge. Zig Kanstul also designed the King bugles.

King did not make valve rotary bugles or 3 valve bugles. If you want to play word games, feel free.

Dynasty was NEVER the only 2 valve bugle producer.

When you say going to 2 valves "brought in" Dynasty, those were actually made by Getzen who already made bugles anyway.

During the late 1980's, Dynasty was the only company making a line of bugles. Kanstul made Meehanaphones for BD, but that was it. The Dynasty and Getzen 2 valve bugles were of a different design. I have the catalogs.

the free market theory doesnt' work here because the drum corps activity is too small, and shrinking rapidly. read the DCW story about the alarming decline in the drum corps activity. hundreds of corps down to 60 in only 30 years.

the activity has changed to include "any key" horns. the only new company in this is yamaha, who has a long histroy of flooding the marketplace with their products to acheive immediate penetration.

Corps are able to buy instruments at a lower price after the multikey rule was passed. Four companies, rather than two, make marching brass instruments. That appears to work.

but I admit this tinfoil hat is starting to chafe a little bit

It looks good on you. :)

Edited by Jeff
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King did not make valve rotary bugles or 3 valve bugles. If you want to play word games, feel free.

During the late 1980's, Dynasty was the only company making a line of bugles. Kanstul made Meehanaphones for BD, but that was it. The Dynasty and Getzen 2 valve bugles were of a different design. I have the catalogs.

Corps are able to buy instruments at a lower price after the multikey rule was passed. Four companies, rather than two, make marching brass instruments. That appears to work.

It looks good on you. :)

too hard to answer each sentence in the proper context but I'll try. never said King made p/r or 3-valve bugles, no word games here.

kanstul made bugles for VK, Freelancers, BD and many more during this period. Dynasty was NVER the only maker of G bugles, ever.

yes, i admit dynasty and getzen were different. but this was clarified better in a more recent post.

four companies:

yamaha - very deep pockets, very aggressive marketing, good horns

dynasty - very low labor costs and direct sales equal low prices, but they dont' have very good horns

king - conn-selmer lots of marketing (today) but hasn't really paid off. company is in trouble too, but great horns

kanstul - too small to compet marketingwise, too bad because their horns are the best.

i'll get rid of the tinfoil hat soon,

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four companies:

yamaha - very deep pockets, very aggressive marketing, good horns

dynasty - very low labor costs and direct sales equal low prices, but they dont' have very good horns

king - conn-selmer lots of marketing (today) but hasn't really paid off. company is in trouble too, but great horns

kanstul - too small to compet marketingwise, too bad because their horns are the best.

Interesting characterization of brands. Personally, I have some experience with all the brands and my opinion differs.

I have a Yamaha Bb trumpet, a professional model, it was expensive and the valves are awful and parts have just fallen off the horn and I'm very careful with my horns.

I used a Dynasty two valve and didn't like it, (they were made for DEG by Allied Music, then the parent company of Getzen). I also play a Dynasty 3 valve and I like it. I'm sure they're better now since they've switched to all nickel valve plating. And now the Getzen family has re-acquired the company and Allied Music so they are all one happy family, but DEG is still a seperate company, I believe.

I have a King cornet. An excellant instrument, but made before UMI or the current Selmer acquisition. Incidentally, the Conn Vintage flugelhorn is very nice.

I briefly used a Kanstul 3 valve bugle. Just for a couple of shows and practices. I absolutely hated it. I didn't like the way it felt or played or sounded. Doesn't mean it's a bad horn - just that I didn't like it and I thought it looked weird and was harder to hold.

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