Jared_mello Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 (edited) Good God... it was pretty much all GE that kept them back. I just noticed the same thing. That and ensemble music. Years later, I still can't get over how RIGHT the prelims brass scores were from '03. Blows my mind how far off the judges were for the other nights. Specifically the drop that Magic and Seattle had, from prelims to semis. ::shakes head in disbelief....again:: From 7th and 8th, to 11th and 16th. If Mark Petrash can seriously listen to that Magic hornline and call it only ONE TENTH better than Crown's from the same year, I obviously haven't learned anything brass-wise after 4 years of drum corps and have no idea what's right and wrong. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh. edit: guess he was still mad about the whole "flagpole to the face" incident he suffered in Indy '02 at the hands of the Cascades' (notably extremely attractive) colorguard. Edited December 8, 2006 by Jared_mello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyonepointthree Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I just noticed the same thing. That and ensemble music.Years later, I still can't get over how RIGHT the prelims brass scores were from '03. Blows my mind how far off the judges were for the other nights. Specifically the drop that Magic and Seattle had, from prelims to semis. ::shakes head in disbelief....again:: From 7th and 8th, to 11th and 16th. If Mark Petrash can seriously listen to that Magic hornline and call it only ONE TENTH better than Crown's from the same year, I obviously haven't learned anything brass-wise after 4 years of drum corps and have no idea what's right and wrong. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh. edit: guess he was still mad about the whole "flagpole to the face" incident he suffered in Indy '02 at the hands of the Cascades' (notably extremely attractive) colorguard. You know, Judges are asked to "call it like they see it" and NO judge samples a corps the same way on the field...they are constantly moving around and hear different things. AND, to be honest, when you are evaluating 16 year old kids, they don't ALWAYS perform the same every night. Petrash is a good judge with a solid reputation, and as a person who has judged many circuits, I can tell you that the lower tiered groups are HARD to judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyonepointthree Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Watch the video, as much as I love SCV 04, Cadets 03 was cleaner than them. Probably should have taken Cavies that night. Just my 2cents. Funny you say that at the same time in another post, people are talking about how Cavies should have won in 03. :-) Amazing to see how different people view that show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassMachine05 Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Theres no denying that Cavies had the show that year to win, but perhaps was a bit more than they could chew. Cadets were cleaner that night than them and were very close to taking them finals night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael18 Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I still can't get over how RIGHT the prelims brass scores were from '03 I just want to call BS on that remark... I may be bitter, but yeah...not crazy about how the brass scores panned out based on the prior trend. 7/19 Cavaliers - 18.5 (1) Blue Devils - 17.8 (3) Cadets - 17.6 (4) Phantom Regiment - 18.0 (2) 7/26 Blue Devils - 18.4 (2) Cavaliers - 18.3 (3) Cadets - 17.9 (4) Phantom Regiment - 18.5 (1) 8/1 Cadets - 18.8 (2) Phantom Regiment - 19.0 (1) 8/7 (quarters) Blue Devils - 19.7 (1) Cavaliers - 19.1 (3) Cadets - 19.4 (2) - first time Cadets beat PR in brass that season Phantom Regiment - 18.7 (4) - man, we must have slipped a lot in that week of rehearsal 8/8 (semis) Blue Devils - 19.9 (1) Cavaliers - 19.4 (3) Cadets - 19.5 (2) Phantom Regiment - 19.0 (5) - that's right, first time Vanguard beat us in brass 8/9 (finals) Blue Devils - 19.7 (1) Cavaliers - 19.4 (3) Cadets - 19.6 (2) Phantom Regiment - 18.9 (4) - we got worse at playing, but better at playing as an ensemble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 (edited) Stuff about scores Maybe the corps that passed you improved more during their week of rehearsal than you did? I always hate the argument of "Man, these scores are bogus, we worked really hard but still got passed" Edited December 8, 2006 by dbc03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thePerfectbuzz Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I cant believe people are actually arguing SCV 04 is cleaner than Cadets 03...if you put the bias/overzealous/SCV is God feelings to the side and actually watch both shows there really isnt much comparison. This thread was 'cleanest' third place show ever right? feet timing go to cadets (which is saying more because their marching is incredible with white pants and a stripe down their side to be a lot more exposed)...clean drill goes to cadets....show demand goes to cadets....brass EXECUTION goes to cadets...EXECUTION in all captions for that matter goes to cadets....now, louder hornline and better GE goes to SCV. just because your more 'entertained' by one does not mean its cleaner than the other...SCV 04 was more entertaining (to me anyways), but Cadets 03 certainly out performed, not just the Cadet 03 vs SCV 04 argument but (IMO) the rest of 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thePerfectbuzz Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I just want to call BS on that remark...I may be bitter, but yeah...not crazy about how the brass scores panned out based on the prior trend. 7/19 Cavaliers - 18.5 (1) Blue Devils - 17.8 (3) Cadets - 17.6 (4) Phantom Regiment - 18.0 (2) 7/26 Blue Devils - 18.4 (2) Cavaliers - 18.3 (3) Cadets - 17.9 (4) Phantom Regiment - 18.5 (1) 8/1 Cadets - 18.8 (2) Phantom Regiment - 19.0 (1) 8/7 (quarters) Blue Devils - 19.7 (1) Cavaliers - 19.1 (3) Cadets - 19.4 (2) - first time Cadets beat PR in brass that season Phantom Regiment - 18.7 (4) - man, we must have slipped a lot in that week of rehearsal 8/8 (semis) Blue Devils - 19.9 (1) Cavaliers - 19.4 (3) Cadets - 19.5 (2) Phantom Regiment - 19.0 (5) - that's right, first time Vanguard beat us in brass 8/9 (finals) Blue Devils - 19.7 (1) Cavaliers - 19.4 (3) Cadets - 19.6 (2) Phantom Regiment - 18.9 (4) - we got worse at playing, but better at playing as an ensemble? ok your missing the idea of peaking. now, I didnt follow DCI close in 2003 until the very end where i attended semis and finals and also own the DVDs. so i dont know the state of progression the corps went through during the season. BUT, if i had to assume....Phantom's hornline scores were probably peaking much earlier than both Cadets and SCV. Phantom's show demand was much much much easier than Cadets and SCV that year. both Cadets and SCV had tempos and drill that were much harder and required more endurance. For instance Phantom's big Canon moments (intro and reprise) were marching half time, for the most part. Than had a rather easy (as far as physical demands) ballad (although it was gorgeous!). So as the season approached the end, both Cadets and SCV had finally built up the endurance to perform their programs at the level to beat Phantom (actually Cadets almost even won brass if I'm not mistaken). I believe Cadets and SCV were pushing 200+ bpm and various parts of there shows, where I'm not sure (maybe you, raphael, can justify) that Phantom got much further over 180. Also I think Cadets that year really came along way to be strong in the end...I think they were 3 or 4 full points behind Cavies in overall score midway through the season, to only lose by .15 and got them in almost all captions (sans GE). So dont look at it as you got worse during your "week of rehersal" look at it as Cadets and SCV caught up with harder shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael18 Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 (edited) My point being that in the course of one week we went from being in first in brass to over a point behind BD. I'm not going to start screaming politics (though, 4th place corps do not win captions). I will admit that the quarters show was not what it could have been - the rain delay really affected our performance - but not to that extent. I understand peaking, and agree that we did not have nearly as complex a visual package - however, we were performing what we had pretty well, and playing at dynamic levels they weren't (except for BD, those guys could flat out play). So, yes - we were marching half-time or doing body movement during the Cannon hits (however, if you remmember there were very few breaks for the hornline, we played from the openner through the ending of Wild Nights 1 without a break - that's a high level of endurance). I admit, we never pushed past about 186 in tempo, but unlike some groups - some corps would prefer to actually present the music somewhat similar to the way it is written. My point is not to be bitter, but really just to say: 1) Scores only mean what you let them meen 2) Cadets 03 was far from untouchable edit: If your going to knock Regiment for our drill in Lord's Prayer...then you'll have to defend Cadets (block in the openner, Malaguena...etc) - the corps in 03 definately weren't doing what the guys are doing today. Demand has gone up majorly in the last few years. Edited December 8, 2006 by raphael18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefortywest Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 2006 Blue Devils, hands down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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