Comparing King vs Yamaha

[FH4life]

King has updated the bari once and Phantom trialed a new prototype tuba last year.

Dynasty has done the most in terms of updating their product. Every horn has been updated at least once since 2000. I believe the trumpet has gone through three designs at least.

the new king tuba is quite clearly a copy of the yamaha 202, I don't see so much "unique design" as they say on the website. anyway if it sounds as good as the yamaha, good for them.

IMO dynasty, sounds quite badly, mellos excluded. 3 new trumpet designs in the last 7 years? adn still sound that bad? ;-)

yamaha is the way to go, IMO. Tubas, baris and euphs are the best on the market. The new mello seems to be very good too, and trumpets are just the best ones. I really don't see why people still ##### about them beeing designed "for an indoor environment". they sound friggin' good both indoor and outdoor, so what's the matter?

[Mark Time]

I have been looking into complete the "cost vs sound" for a new horn line in the last few months. And for a complete horn line Yamaha is definitely the cheapest overall because of their mass-production discounts and youth organization discounts. King's cost a bit more, but I feel it is by far worth the extra bucks for the better sound, in my opinion. I still need to get together with some Kanstul Bbs and King Bbs world of brass and hear the difference and feel the different back to back on them. I know I love Kanstul high brass outside the best, but I have not yet compared them back to back yet as I have done so with yamaha/Kings.

But regardless of which lines of horns are "best" in whose ever opinion, it still comes down to good teaching on those horns, if you take a bunch of 20 year old Bbs line of brass horns and give them good students and a great bunch of teachers the kids will still sound good, however you give those same kids any of these 'top' 3 brands with poor teaching, they won't sound as good. Every corps has their 'sound' and that comes from choosing the instrument that allows the easiest flow towards that sound, with excellent teaching involved to that end. If Blue Devils were to start playing on PR horns, they would not sound like the Blue Devils and Vice Versa for PR using BD horns. It just wouldn't fly that way. Thats my opinion on the subject. Give me another year of research and I'll be able to choose between all 3, or maybe a 4th unknown, or untapped, manufacturer too.

So to answer the topic question, I prefer Kings over Yamaha any day, but if I were in front teaching a horn line using Yamaha, I wouldn't be displeased at all with the quality or sound, it's just not my preferred sound of a wide open relaxed sound.

Bingo! We have a winner! You took the words out of my mouth.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Mark Time

[Mark Time]

The Yamaha Xeno is true professional horn and yes it does have a hand hammerd bell. For a simple comparisson, the Xeno is Bach Stradivarious of the Yamaha line. A hand hammered bell will cause the sound to resonate differently than a stamped bell. Correct me if I am wrong but the Xeno is the only trumpet on the corps filed with a hand hammerd bell.

As far as mellos go, I feel Yamaha has the best on the market. Check out the review of the 204 on www.midllehornleader.com

I've been able to play extensively on King, Yamaha, Kanstul and Dynasty mellophones. For me, King and Kanstul mellos are at a dead heat followed by Yamaha in 3rd and Dynasty last.

[Penn State]

I've been able to play extensively on King, Yamaha, Kanstul and Dynasty mellophones. For me, King and Kanstul mellos are at a dead heat followed by Yamaha in 3rd and Dynasty last.

What Yamaha model did you play test and what mouthpiece did you use?

I played all the following horns using a Conn mello 6 mouthpiece:

I haven't tried the new King yet. I don't care for the 1120 very much, the tone was a bit muddy (1120 played 3y.o. laquer, in excellent condition, also played a much older beat up 1120, both played similary).

Conn 132E, at least 10yrs old but in excellent condition. Very free blowing with an even range, produces a nice round mellow sound. The thumb hook is necessary to bring F and D in tune. Valve cluster is farther away from the body when horn is held in playing position in comparisson to the F.E. Olds based mello models.

Accent mello, I've been informed that this horn is manufactured by Kanstul.

Very bell heavy and uncomfortable to hold. Free blowing, not as free as the 132E with an even range. I didn't feel the tone was very mello, it sounded more like an alto trumpet.

Dynasty: I agree with this

http://middlehornleader.com/Dynasty%20M540M%20Review.htm

Yamaha 204: I agree with this

http://middlehornleader.com/Yamaha%20YMP204.htm

I'm now using a Wick 2 mouthpiece. It gives the Yamaha a much better sound. IMO the Yamaha mello piece is not a very good one. I'ts basically a slightly modified trumpet piece.

other mellos I've played: Bach: mercedes, 1105spII, and DEG II 2v bugle.

[idontwan2know]

the new king tuba is quite clearly a copy of the yamaha 202, I don't see so much "unique design" as they say on the website. anyway if it sounds as good as the yamaha, good for them.

IMO dynasty, sounds quite badly, mellos excluded. 3 new trumpet designs in the last 7 years? adn still sound that bad? ;-)

yamaha is the way to go, IMO. Tubas, baris and euphs are the best on the market. The new mello seems to be very good too, and trumpets are just the best ones. I really don't see why people still ##### about them beeing designed "for an indoor environment". they sound friggin' good both indoor and outdoor, so what's the matter?

I'd disagree that the whole Dynasty line sounds bad. Certainly the trumpet is junk and hasn't gotten significantly better redesign or no, but the bari, euph and 5/4 tuba are more or less decent instruments. The smaller tubas aren't very good.

From a sound and playability angle, it's hard to argue against Yamaha. The only issue I see is durability...they're constructed much more lightly than the other brands and getting the correct parts in a timely manner is a serious problem. King certainly has its own share of manufacturing defects, as well.

[FH4life]

I'd disagree that the whole Dynasty line sounds bad. Certainly the trumpet is junk and hasn't gotten significantly better redesign or no, but the bari, euph and 5/4 tuba are more or less decent instruments. The smaller tubas aren't very good.

From a sound and playability angle, it's hard to argue against Yamaha. The only issue I see is durability...they're constructed much more lightly than the other brands and getting the correct parts in a timely manner is a serious problem. King certainly has its own share of manufacturing defects, as well.

I don't think yamaha has durability problems... at least, I've never experienced any. yes, valves can be very frustrating but after a month or so the problem is gone. But I've never had in my hands any dynasty tuba or bari for enough time to test it, so all I can do is to trust you. as far as concern replacing new parts when I was on tour we used to have on the equipment truck a box full of valves, slides of any kind and size but I don't think I've seen anyone using any of that stuff.

I remember I was talking to a guy in another corps right before getting on the field to play AOC and, asking about his king mello, he answered: "well... it's a mellophone..." :P

[idontwan2know]

When I talk about durability, I'm talking about long term durability...five, seven, ten, twelve years. That's where the Yamahas fall short of the others, in my experience. Mostly due to the very soft alloys used.

Over the course of a year or two, the only issue I know of with the Yamahas is the valve guides wearing out and breaking. Frankly, that's the biggest weakpoint in all marching brass nowadays...metal valve guides may have been noisy, but you never worried about them wearing out or breaking.

[727driver]

I worked in the music retail business for a number of years, and base most of my opinions on the strength and durability of your investment. If I were looking at buying a whole hornline and looking at it as a long term investment, I would choose King any day of the week over Yamaha. They just build a better instrument with better materials IMO. I have NEVER had a 20+ year old yamaha brass instrument used in an educational situation come in for repair. They just aren't built to last that long. But I just can't count the number of old Kings, Conns, Olds, and Reynolds horns that come in year after year. They may not be that nice anymore, but they have survived a Jr. High classroom for 40 some odd years. A Yamaha valve section would have rotted through by then. Plus I like the way a King plays far and above a Yamaha.

[Penn State]

I worked in the music retail business for a number of years, and base most of my opinions on the strength and durability of your investment. If I were looking at buying a whole hornline and looking at it as a long term investment, I would choose King any day of the week over Yamaha. They just build a better instrument with better materials IMO. I have NEVER had a 20+ year old yamaha brass instrument used in an educational situation come in for repair. They just aren't built to last that long. But I just can't count the number of old Kings, Conns, Olds, and Reynolds horns that come in year after year. They may not be that nice anymore, but they have survived a Jr. High classroom for 40 some odd years. A Yamaha valve section would have rotted through by then. Plus I like the way a King plays far and above a Yamaha.

The old H.N. White horns (inlcuded the 'King' brand) are outstanding. The new horns, it doesn't matter who makes them, just don't hold up to the quality the old American built horns. IMO the biggest difference between todays horns and the old Americans is the technology used.

I feel the designs of the Yamaha marching baritone and mellophone are the best to date. I do feel however that a craftsman in F.E. Olds plant in Ca or the Bach plant in Indiana in the 60s could make the current Yamaha horns as specified alot better.

Question for those who are familiar with the original F.E.Olds and Bach mercedes marching brass:

DO you feel the Yamaha line is based on these original designs?

[baristeve]

The king euphs have a lot more trouble with intonation than the yamaha horns do.

Crown recently switched from King to yamaha, I believe this is their best decision of the decade.