Disrespect Between Members of Different Eras

[Thom]

Talent, hard work and determination; pride and self confidence; genuine accomplishments are not bounded by what kind of instrument you play, whether you march 120 or 160 BPM or even how old you are.

The quote of the thread.

[dc oldtimer]

Considering my user name I felt impelled to respond. In my past postings I hope I am not categorized as a disrespectful old goat as some of these posts sounded like in this string.

It is pretty obvious who I marched with and what my "era" was but to me it all comes down to one thing when talking about the old and the new.

Respect.

Do I agree with what the activity looks like today? No.

Amps? No.

Dance? Not as much as what's on the field today.

Theatrics? No.

BUT:

Do I respect what these kids can do on the field? Absolutely!

I go to drum corps shows for three reasons these days 1) To see people I haven’t seen in a long time 2) to support The Cavaliers in anyway I can 3) To see the amazing things these kids can do (i.e. musical/marching talent) no matter what corps they are in.

Amps, dance, vocals, props, etc. are not for me but I still support this activity because of the reasons stated above. I don't blame the kids for what direction the activity is going, I look toward the staffs, judges and DCI. They are trying to bring in new fans and appeal to the masses because of all the other activities out there that kids can get involved in. Can they do this by remaining stagnant and cater to the old guard? Probably not but everyone needs to realize where many of the staff comes from. Where many of the fans are from. Who volunteers the most. Who donates the most $$. Without us "old geezers" I truly feel this activity would die a slow death because many (MANY not ALL) of the marchers of today go off into the sunset after they march never to be heard from again. Which is their choice but if this is the drection this activity is going, they will need to find a way to support itself without the support of past era's. Good luck with that.

But I certainly respect everything the kids of today are doing on the field. I hope that if I post or say something that criticizes the direction of this activity it isn't interpreted as disrespecting the kids on the field. Nothing can be further from the truth.

Edited May 14, 2007 by dc oldtimer

[loud_lancer]

I really don't enjoy watching 70's drum corps. It's really, really awesome to listen to, but I just can't stand watching it.

Brian, this can actually bring things back on track.

Unless you're just trying to be funny by taking a pot-shot, perhaps you can explain why you don't like watching 70's stuff. I'm honestly curious. Is it all the high mark time? The symmetrical drill? The slow tempos? (Oh, wait, you like the music, so that can't be it.) Lack of dance?

Perhaps some of those who marched that era can put things in context to help you better understand what you're seeing so you can gain an appreciation. And it might help them better understand your point of view.

Not trying to be antagonistic, here, just saw an opportunity for one generation to help another. After all everyone here has a one point had to explain why you think a certain show is cool.

[Martybucs]

Actually, before DCI part of the prolem was that there were too many "pages"....all sorts of different rules and sheets,

You really think so? I pretty much thought that most, if not all, US corps at least, followed VFW/AL rules as far as performance was concerned. Some individual judging associations had some unusual requirements, perhaps, but I thought we were all on the same VFW/AL page.

I thought DCI's main reason for being was to get a bigger share of the Nationals and state championships gate. Along with banding together to tour together thus shutting down most local shows by shunning them unless they paid the high fees set by DCI.

[liebot]

Brian, this can actually bring things back on track.

Unless you're just trying to be funny by taking a pot-shot, perhaps you can explain why you don't like watching 70's stuff. I'm honestly curious. Is it all the high mark time? The symmetrical drill? The slow tempos? (Oh, wait, you like the music, so that can't be it.) Lack of dance?

Perhaps some of those who marched that era can put things in context to help you better understand what you're seeing so you can gain an appreciation. And it might help them better understand your point of view.

Not trying to be antagonistic, here, just saw an opportunity for one generation to help another. After all everyone here has a one point had to explain why you think a certain show is cool.

I guess I just find "new style" drum corps much more pleasing and entertaining from a visual standpoint. The complexity and interpretation of the drill adds a new dimension to shows that I just don't find in old shows. This isn't to say old shows were completely disappointing - they still give me chills - and Cavaliers' guard step-over at the end of their 1980 show was a pretty awesome visual. I don't know, I just find myself watching new shows more and listening to old shows more.

I should add that 1980 is one of my fav. years of drum corps. Spirit with the whole Jim Ott back story and an amazing horn book, BD was a jazz powerhouse, Lancers came the closest they ever did to winning a title, Madison's DM whipping out the 1975 champ. flag and taking a picture (predecessor to '97... a lot of people don't know that), and the aforementioned Cavies move. A lot of great closers in that year.

Edited May 14, 2007 by TSRTS13

[Lance]

The new wave DC people can not argue with old because they were not there. The old schoolers were there and now see where the activity is going and have a leg to stand on in an argument.(even though it's on a hover round) I like the old, but thats what I know. But When I was marching in and 1975 and was told of the Lt Norman Price, Riley Raiders and other corps of the generation prior to us we held those corps in high regard. The bando's of today care only for what they know and to heck with the rest.

RF

I don't think you'll find many people on here who don't hold drum corps and performers of the past in high regard. Sure, every once in awhile, you get a post where somebody says that they found 70s and 80s shows boring. But one thing you don't get from people today is all of this referring to past performers in terms so pejoratively as you describe performers today (bandos who say to heck with blah blah blah). And it's not because fans and performers today don't have a leg to stand on. It's because they know better, thanks in large part to their experiences marching most likely. In short, that's the epitome of being respectful. You, of course, can feel free to trash everything about drum corps today and make broad generalizations about these "bandos", but no, you have no leg to stand on, and most people know it. Respect is a two-way street.

[scv guy]

Do I agree with what the activity looks like today? No.

Amps? No.

Dance? Not as much as what's on the field today.

Theatrics? No.

BUT:

Do I respect what these kids can do on the field? Absolutely!

Exactly! LOSE the amps and puhLEASE no more, "YOWSA YOWSA" announcer junk. <**> It's the last straw for old timers me thinks. I can't say anything about dancin' guards as I marched with a guard with poofy sleeves, hula hoops, a maypole and bedknobs. They still wore boots though, dangit!

If you miss the old school, check out the Kingsmen Alumni Corps at Pre-Lims. It's gonna bring the house down for fans of the old school. I sure hope "the kids" will be able to see this. b**bs

I think it may blow some young minds. Old dudes rule. ^0^

[Iplaytimpani]

I'm surprised it took 3 days and 130ish posts before the crap started. We had a nice thread going that showed some commonality and had slight progress toward understanding and genuine respect ....... and now this. I'm 36 years of age ... I would have aged out 15 years ago had I marched my last 2 years. I hardly feel like a whipper snapper .... but I can hardly imagine someone my fathers age showing such a lack of wisdom in such a public fashion.

Weren't folks who were born in the 40's-50's taught and raised with the values of Honor, Respect and Humbility? And aren't those the things you prided yourselves on when you marched? I believe the answers should be YES ... in fact I KNOW.

Bingo. We have a winner. Folks, it's clear that we'll all never see eye to eye. That's not the point, but just be respectful. Me and Dan don't agree on much as far as drum corps. But we marched together for 2 years now, and I feel can have a discussion knowing it's going to really go nowhere, but that's okay. It's respectful. I know he's been there before. He knows I'm there now. It's all good. Just keep it respectful. It's a shame that this is really the conversation we're having now, but we are. Respecting the activity and the people involved shouldn't have to be something we discuss and ask for. Don't care for something, that's okay. Doesn't mean you have to disrespect it. If you're really so offended by what DCI has become, than I'm sorry that the activity has let you down for any reason, but maybe it's time to take your ball and go home? I wish you the best if that's the case, but I'd rather lose a former fan, than have to decide if it matters to me that they disapprove of me/show/the activity I'm giving my all to.

[MikeD]

You really think so? I pretty much thought that most, if not all, US corps at least, followed VFW/AL rules as far as performance was concerned. Some individual judging associations had some unusual requirements, perhaps, but I thought we were all on the same VFW/AL page.

I thought DCI's main reason for being was to get a bigger share of the Nationals and state championships gate. Along with banding together to tour together thus shutting down most local shows by shunning them unless they paid the high fees set by DCI.

One example of two of the top shows of 1971....

GE at the World Open was 30 points...at VFW Nats it was only given 10...plus there was that silly "Cadence" caption.

[Lancerlady]

One thing I haven't changed my mind about is the takeover of drum corps by DCI. If it wasn't for DCI we'd all be sort of on the same page after all these years.

However, it's a done deal. You or I weren't there to stop it. (so MikeD, maybe only 165.9degrees)

You can't lose sight of the idea that it is still a musical activity for the benefit of the kids. When you think DCI you can't help but focus on Division I. There are a lot of Division II and III corps that are like most of the neighborhood corps of the past. In the so called Golden Age, there still were only 12 at VFW finals. I think the classes of Div. I, II, III should be done away with. It stigmatizes the smaller corps as not as good in a lot of people's minds.

The, "...Groucho Marx on Castoria..." line is very funny, but you see, you're making fun of the kids today and that's not funny. Keep those remarks to your circle of friends when you're clowning around and making fun. Who wants to be made fun of on an international forum? You? You have a right to an opinion, you have a right to say it, but think first, do you really mean to make fun of these young men and women? How does that help?

Your post is very humorous, but do you see you're not just stating an opinion or talking to your friends - you're deriding someone's hard work and beloved activity as they know it.

Talent, hard work and determination; pride and self confidence; genuine accomplishments are not bounded by what kind of instrument you play, whether you march 120 or 160 BPM or even how old you are.

Very well said.