Replacing Our Losses in Corps Numbers

[euponitone]

Be nice. I don't see you offering suggestions, just berating mine.

"My first two years in Cadets..." Nice. I did two years total. One with a 15, one with a 3. Could have done 4 total. Take what I can get without parental support.

And I'm the one called an elitist. "If I couldn't march Scouts I would have marched Blooo." If I couldn't march Phantom I would have marched Black Gold, Delta Brigade, or in my case, Sky being in Dallas at the time, I marched Sky. Wouldn't trade it for the world. Sorry you disagree and top 6 is the only way to go for you. Glad you enjoyed it.

As far as berating your ideas...im sorry, but when you make such a silly analogy and then base a 8 paragraph post on it, its kinda easy. And i only did 3 years total, what does that have to do with anything. There's nothing elitist about me, just because i happened to get a ring. If i hadnt made cadets, i would have marched crossmen. Im sorry that i happened to be good enough to get into the corps i wanted to. Thats not elistist, thats just how my situation worked out. The fact is that the closest audition to me was a top 6 corps (and another finalist of course). I almost marched crossmen even though i made cadets because i liked their music better. Its good to see you making random assumptions about me, knowing nothing other than the corps i marched, and that i think people who are spending thousands of dollars should get to choose where they march. That was my opinion, and it was relevent to the thread.

[HockeyDad]

With all of the commentary regarding declining music programs, there are still thousands of HS bands out there that provide what WAS the local corps experience "in the day". Far more kids march and compete nationwide today as compared to the high point of drum corps. For many drum corps IS now seen as the marching/music equivalent to all-state band, or a music camp like Interlochen.

Hey, I went there one summer. I was the worst musician among a lot a of quite amazing kids, so I ain't braggin. Such a small world.......

[sopemloud]

ok, i know I'm not a regular around here but here is what i know about how we (people currently of marching age) choose where to march.

to add more corps, you need members to march in them. It would be wise to fill the spots we have now before adding a new system and having new corps pop up.

someone asked...what do incoming members want from drum corps? what are they looking for? what will make them march certain corps?

. The uniform- i know...it seems lame, but this is a pretty big factor. I know people who wouldn't be caught dead marching (insert corps name here) because of the cut/color/ general look of their uniform.

. CLINICS- when marching drum corps...incoming members want to feel like they are part of the elite. being part of instructional clinics where the corps members are the example being watched by middle and high school bandies is a MAJOR ego boost. that boost...and setting the example for younger kids is a great incentive to join a certain corps.

. TRADITION AND HISTORY- when corps shopping...kids are looking to work for the super stars. the people everyone watch. and who are the corps with the largest number of stable loyal fans??? corps with Alumni. the older the corp is...the more people know about them and watch them because they share a common bond.

older corps had a much larger opportunity to display their PERSONALITY.

corps that were around during the time of post show concerts in the lot, Full corps retreats, playing off the field, nightly encores, plus many other similar things that no longer exist had an opportunity to show the character and personality of their corps to the public and future members.

answer this...what is SCV's corps song?

most, if not all of you out there can answer that...

now...what about Esperanza? Scades? KK? PC? Impulse? Mystical?

I don't know a logistically sound way to do it...but these types of things outside the show are how corps build their reputations and get their personalities known to the public.

In this era of drum corps...members choose the corps they will audition for, and/or corps they are willing to march based on the personality of the corp. this includes their music selections, Traditions, attitude (in and out of uniform) and all those other little quirks that make up the corps spirit. to put that much effort into a show...you have to agree with what the corps represents.

To the average high school kid, there are only a few corps with personalities present enough to be appealing. they choose what fits them...and then it's that or bust.

if lower tier and div II/III corps can find a way to show what their corps are all about...there's a better chance they will bring in members.

sorry if this is a bit rant-ish or slurred...i can't type as fast as i think of things to say.

[JimF-LowBari]

ok, i know I'm not a regular around here but here is what i know about how we (people currently of marching age) choose where to march.

to add more corps, you need members to march in them. It would be wise to fill the spots we have now before adding a new system and having new corps pop up.

sorry if this is a bit rant-ish or slurred...i can't type as fast as i think of things to say.

No rant in your post as it's all good. Big problem with threads like this is very few people your age will post for various reasons. you brought up some good points from the DCI elegible prospective.

[MikeD]

Like I said. Require D2/3 or lower D1 experience for the top 6. You could even phase it in.

You will end up with fewer participants, not more. You can't force a person to march someplace they have no desire to march. And...due to the local nature of II/III, the person has to be close enough to one to participate. That's a huge logistical difference between div I and II/III.

Require a year of experience elsewhere, and those who want to march will do so.

Most DCI members these days get far more than that in their local band programs.

Many of you say, "Boy, I'd sure like to see the top 12 shuffle a little each year." Great! Now how is that really going to happen when it hasn't been done in 20 years? Hmmm??? The top 6 is basically the same as 20 years ago. Take out Star, replace it with Blooo, and boom--same 6. Bottom 6 has changed a lot due to economics, etc.

How do you shuffle the top 6?

Instill parity. How can I compare professional athletes? Simple. Because their leagues used to not have parity, now they do. Who won the last three World Series?? Who won the last three Super Bowls?? Stanley Cups??

You are looking to penalize success, always a bad idea, IMO. Bring the others up...don't force those at the top down. You see it happening now, actually, with the Coats in and Crown knocking on the top-6 door, and maybe BK as well.

For professional sports, when they were instilled, it was the draft that brought parity. No more 26 Yankees champions. No more Canadian champions--at all! Well, OK, there were other factors there. But spreading around the talent in a draft was a MAJOR thing in pro sports. And it happened because the Phoenix Cardinals (perennial losers) have the same vote as the Dallas Cowboys, Pittsburgh Steelers, and SF 49ers (perennial champs).

These are professional athletes who get PAID. Memebers pay FOR the privilege of marching...forcing them to choose a lesser option will drive them away even more.

[MikeD]

IMO, some of this comes from the "if you can't be with the best, then it ain't worth it" mentality shown all too often in society today. In DCIs case (again IMO) the fact that Div II/III is totally ignored when shooting for the target audience with the ESPN telecast gives the same impression. A person who knows nothing about corps might think that Div II/III is useless since it isn't even mentioned in a blurb. I'd like to see if a throwaway line of "Like what you see but don't feel like you're ready? Here's an idea.... <insert Div II/III blurb>".

I don't see it that way, esp for the kids who are members of competitive bands. They DO march already at some level, depending on their band of course.

IMO there needs to be a lot more div II/III marketing at div I audition camps. There could be a div II/III corps representative local to the particular camp who comes in AT THE START of the audition and provides a speil and materials about II/III in general, not just his/her particular corps. Don't forget, people audtioning came from all over the country.

But it has to be at the beginning of the camp...making kids who were just cut aware of the II/III possibilities when they have just been disappointed is not going to help, IMO.

[MikeD]

The downplay of D2/3 corps is blatantly obvious just by visiting DCI.org and clicking on "Corps." You immediately see all of your Div. I corps listed, then way down at the bottom, "Other Corps:" with links to Div. 2/3 corps, few of which even have websites.

Here is how the CORPS menu looks on DCI.ORG for div I, II, and III.....I don't see what you are referring to. What am I missing?

As for corps not having a website...that is their own business.

DIVISION I

Division I corps can have up to 135 members. The criteria to earn Division I status incorporates a combination of aspects that include organizational stability, strength of program, number of participants, touring capabilities and financial stability. A participation review process is managed by a committee of independent individuals. They perform exhaustive evaluations of corps petitioning for Division I status after which a recommendation is presented to the DCI Board of Directors for a decision.

View all Division I Corps (it's a link)

DIVISIONS II AND III

Division II corps have memberships of no less than 71 and no more than 135 members. Division III units have memberships of no less than 30 and no more than 79. Corps with 71 to 79 members have a choice between Division II or III distinction. These size mandates are designed to offer more performance opportunities for more members without forcing any of the corps to expand beyond their financial means or competitive capabilities.

View all Division II Corps (it's a link)

View all Division III Corps (it's a link)

[MikeD]

Founded and has become are two different things. There really weren't 6 dominant corps back then. Certainly not that few. It has grown into a 6-horse race, basically. And none of those 6 has less that 150 members. One corps taking a new path won't really have that much impact. Where the 6 go, so goes the activity.

Actually, there were fewer than six who had any sort of shot at winning DCI in 1972...

After Anaheim, the Blue Stars, SCV and 2-7, who scored between 86.0 and 88.1 (thanks to corpsreps), there was a marked dropoff to 5th place Argonne's 82.9.

You can look before that at VFW's and see similar results. You had corps making VFW finals in 71 that were 12-15 points out of first. At the 71 World Open only the top 4 had a legit shot at winning. The top 5 at both shows were the same corps. The idea that there were lots more corps at the top back "in the day" is just not true. When there were 440 corps....there were still only a handful of what would be the DCI div I today.

[MikeD]

In this era of drum corps...members choose the corps they will audition for, and/or corps they are willing to march based on the personality of the corp. this includes their music selections, Traditions, attitude (in and out of uniform) and all those other little quirks that make up the corps spirit. to put that much effort into a show...you have to agree with what the corps represents.

This is a VERY key fact, IMO. The badn I work with had a guy on staff a few years back, born and raised here in NJ, who marched contra in BD...Why? Because he had absoutely zero interest in any other corps. He loved the BD and what they stood for. He could have driven to Cadet/Crossmen auditions, yet chose to fly over every other corps in the country to march with his dream corps.

[JimF-LowBari]

I don't see it that way, esp for the kids who are members of competitive bands. They DO march already at some level, depending on their band of course.

Are you talking about the "if it ain't the best, it ain't worth doing" part of my post? If so it got me wondering if young folks from top band programs would be willing to be in a "lesser" corps just so they can have the corps experience. Never having competed in MB so have no idea.

IMO there needs to be a lot more div II/III marketing at div I audition camps. There could be a div II/III corps representative local to the particular camp who comes in AT THE START of the audition and provides a speil and materials about II/III in general, not just his/her particular corps. Don't forget, people audtioning came from all over the country.

But it has to be at the beginning of the camp...making kids who were just cut aware of the II/III possibilities when they have just been disappointed is not going to help, IMO.

Oh man we agree..... :sshh: