Late Westminster MD review

[rut-roh]

A different source leads to a different definition. Consider Wikipedia, which defines drum and bugle corps this way: "A drum and bugle corps or drum corps is a musical marching unit (similar to a marching band) consisting of brass instruments, percussion instruments, and color guard."

Please tell me we're not trying to pass off Wikipedia as some sort of factual end-all authority.

[Dale Bari]

Please tell me we're not trying to pass off Wikipedia as some sort of factual end-all authority.

Not at all; see my reply to Mike.

However, I'm just saying that different authorities have different definitions. In fact, you've helped me prove the point that we have to take care in exactly what we cite as sources in the search for an objective definition. A mind trained to think critically can distinguish what is a just definition and what isn't. I think in the case of the definition of drum corps on Wiki, we'd all agree.

Just please don't say there is no authority and every definition is up to the individual.

[MikeD]

I never said narration was "UN"necessary. But to simply tell that the father in "The Christmas Story" dueled with the furnace downstairs is far less funny than briefly describing it, then illustrating it with the scenes where he DOES so.

It's the totality of the narration by Shepard and McGavin's acting that make it as good as it is...just like the Cadets show is as good as IT is with the combination.

Again brevity in the narration is important and is far more effective when used in combination with illustration. (Also see my prior post for more refutation.)

You have just described The Cadets show.

Here's where you really slip up, Mike. I never claimed it was an invalid choice. I'm criticizing you for claiming that narration is a "musical innovation" (which negates your recitative example - there's no innovation if people have been doing it for centuries).

It is how a particular thing is used that makes for the innovation within that medium. Drum corps percussion was innovative for drum corps when marching mallets were added..or contras...or lots of other stuff that got their start elsewhere.

[MikeD]

As I said before, great public oration involves timing, cadence, and dynamics, but those alone do not make it music. Singing requires melody and/or harmony. Poetry is more musical than mere speech. And now we have come full circle again to where I started this morning: saying "Narration is music" is like saying "Prose is poetry."

Singing does not always involve melody and/or harmony. Listen to a choral piece titled "Geographical Fugue". I sang it in college choir 30+ years ago.

Why do you persist with the idea that I don't like it or think it invalid to use? Read what I've already said about that. Really, Mike, I never thought you were dumb.

Well, I hope you are not calling me 'dumb', as that goes against DCP rules. Stoopig to that level is not something I would have expected from you.

On that note...I am out.

[euponitone]

<sigh> And post-modern education claims another victim.

Translation: "Dude, don't bother me with your bogus logic. You're confusing me with all those adverbs and prepostions, man! I'm too busy trippin' with my buds, so don't kill our buzz."

Alternative translation: "Stop oppressing me with your Euro-centric ideas of objectivity and rules. Those are simply meant to empower the white man and keep the proletariat in its place. Viva Che!"

Im sorry...but how exactly are you trying to portray me here. Instead of attacking me by trying to portray me as some kind of anti-establishment hippie, how about addressing the issue. I am a huge fan of logical arguments and debate, its probably one of the only reasons why I bother to post. As i mentioned in an earlier post, Im not as big of a narration fan as you would think, hence I am not on here to somehow 'defend' narration. I am in this particular thread because I think that narration can qualify as music, regardless of what websters says. There are some words that lend themselves to a 3 line definition, such as those found in websters, while others do not. Dictionaries, of course, are bound by certain guidelines, and giving dissertations on every controversial word they contain would make them somewhat useless. This, i think we can agree on.

[euponitone]

an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions

theres a better definition...perfect, no - its not even complete.

I think honestly we're getting a little off-base here in discussion something so vague anyway. Does something have to be considered 'music' to be allowed in dci, OR to be successful. Perhaps we need to turn the discussion in that direction, instead of wasting times on impossible debates on such a grand scale.

[dsaeger]

Ok, so I downloaded the Cadets APD, burned it to CD and gave a listen to it while I was driving in my van.

The opener has dialog that completely dominates it - and - I hate it. When you start thinking about articulations and inflections to the spoken word (like you would when listening to a horn player or a hornline) then the voicings do not work. It would have to be near perfect - and that ain't happening. Secondly, they are just plowing through the words (and there are pages of them) as fast as they can. I understand, but there is just too much that can be said about our beloved activity. And then it hit me, this song is the equivilent of the Cadets throwing candy at the kids. And it made sense. Of course they're going to eat this stuff up and I understood what they were trying to do.

Then blissfully the rest of the show had no more narration (at least from what I can remember) but the one thing that then stuck out was the contrast between the two - Very young and then pretty darn Sophisticated. So if you can stomach the one, you'll get the good stuff afterwards. Just be patient.

Dang it! I just listened to the Cadets again and I realized that there IS talking all of the way to the end and then the announcer is hard to hear calling the end of the show. Then my CD goes right into the next corps without any introduction - and I had missed that. The next corps was the Blue Knights followed by Boston. Neither of those two corps had announcements at the beginning or end of their shows (I hate that too!). But, what pipe was I smokin' when I said that the Cadets didn't TALK all of the way through their show?! I do have to say though that I like the Blue Knights and BAC's shows.

Or you could download the apd and hear for yourself (I'm up to about 17 downloads this year).

See ya,

Dan

Edited July 7, 2007 by dsaeger

[DCI_Dadx2]

an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions

theres a better definition...perfect, no - its not even complete.

I think honestly we're getting a little off-base here in discussion something so vague anyway. Does something have to be considered 'music' to be allowed in dci, OR to be successful. Perhaps we need to turn the discussion in that direction, instead of wasting times on impossible debates on such a grand scale.

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Agreed, although I'm applying the mirror image of your question. Does something have to be allowed in DCI because its considered music? IMHO it isn't enhancing the activity. It may be music, it may be art, but we can find many examples of both that don't fit the activity. Personally I truly enjoy a show designed well enough that one doesn't even need the program to "get" the show. Madison and Southwind last year were two such shows for me, as are the Cavies almost any season.