capsounddad
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Posts posted by capsounddad
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But what happens with the 3 remaining cadet corps?
I guess they will be "cut loose". Unless they can provide a "revenue stream" for DCI.
I am still waiting for a reply from Tom about whether it his opinion or the official DCI position that DCI will be weeded out to include only the top revenue producing corps. If it is Tom's opinion, I'd like to know DCI's official stance.
The intent of this thread was to discuss the future of the drum corps activity and the leadership role DCI and DCA could have. By knowing what direction each is taking, each drum corps fan can decide whether or not to support either or both. Or, as has been suggested go a different direction.
Rick
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Open Class corps are not members
Tom,
Are you voicing a personal opinion or are you speaking for DCI? If Open Class corps are not members, then why are they required to pay membership fees, host shows, house World Class Corps and why are they listed as member corps on the web site?
Before this continues to get off track, I'd like to return to the future of the activity. Are you saying it is the intent of the directors who carry the most weight at DCI to jettison the corps who don't provide a revenue stream for DCI and create a closed circuit of touring ensembles like a circus?
By the way I have been to guidestar. My guess is that DCI lost money this year like a lot of other businesses, through losses in investments. I'm sure there aren't many people who know that SOME DCI money is used for investments.
Rick Melcher
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DCI doesn't start drum corps. They don't really want to represent every drum corps out there either. They want to represent the highest revenue earning drum corps and that's it.
I don't see anything wrong with that. And if you can start a circuit with small drum corps and can get fans to come see these corps perform, more power to you. You'd already be two steps ahead of today's Open Class corps.
By the way, we can all continue the DCI needs to pay more attention to Open Class corps stuff, but it really doesn't make that much sense to me. Open Class corps need to a better job of earning revenue. I believe the Michigan City arrangement is a good start. Now, get butts in the seats during finals week. Want to see DCI pay attention? Show them their's an audience for Open Class corps beyond the 3K who show up now. DCI has enough on its hands with the corps actually earning revenue for the organization let alone take on corps who don't attract fans to the stadiums.
To borrow a line from Steve Martin's character in "The Jerk", "Now I get it. It's a profit scheme. That takes all the pressure off."
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I think that really is a major detriment to DCI at this point is its total abandonment of any sort of local feeling. You could grow up 10 minutes away from The Cavaliers yet be a Blue Devils fan. Now yes I know it could be a style thing (just like people that grow up in New York hate the Yankees but like the Mets or don't like either team at all, it happens) however the percentage of fans in pro sports that live locally to a team and are fans of said team is probably a majority whereas in DCI I'm willing to bed the number of fans that live locally to a corps and are fans of said corps is significantly lower.
I couldn't agree more!! There are a whole lot of ideas out there about restoring that local character to drum corps. I think DCA is steadily cultivating that very thing but at a pace that they can handle both from an organizational and monetary stand point. I have seen and heard many posts on these forums that suggest DCI is doing the opposite. Trying to consolidate its resources to support a much smaller, financially viable circuit. One thing that adds to the dilema is that as the number of corps shrinks, the number of shows must also shrink. This seriously detracts from the already limited visibility drum corps has with people outside of the activity.
Rick Melcher
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I LOVE the idea from the poster that suggested corps members from the corps going to the elementary and middle schools and playing thier I & E performance, showing videos, being in uniform, talking about corps and the value of a music education and where it would take them. What a great idea. I did that back in the day for our corps with a small group of guys and girls from our corps. We went to the schools to recruit for our cadet corps....showed a movie, played in uniform and performed a skit and then just let the kids ask questions. The next season we had a huge cadet corps. With today's intelligent youth as the players and recruiters...I can only imagine what a year of this being done by ALL the corps would mean to the activity. It may sound simplistic but I know that it works. Now just get all the corps to back such an effort and the sky is the limit. No real expense to the corps and just a few man hours.
This probably worked well before the era of what I call "free agency". In the past, the majority of members were from at least the general area of the corps home town. My son is in a world class corps that has one member from the state where the corps is located. It's hard to promote locally when most of the corps is from somewhere else.
Having said that, I too like the idea and I will see what can be done locally.
Rick Melcher
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By the way, if you are bringing this anti-DCI thread...you better have more on the table than an investigation of the DCI budget.
Ten million sounds like a lot of cash right? Not very much at all actually. And guidestar will show you the bottom line on the net. I would wager it being around $250,000.00 or less at the end of the year...and last year (2008), I have a source who told me DCI did not break even.
So, it's not like DCI has $10,000,000.00 lining someone's pocket. Again, bring something better to the table about what DCI does or doesn't do.
Tom,
I am not trying to be anti-DCI. I was responding to a comment made about DCI paying for things that they don't pay for. I am not asking for an investigation of the DCI budget. As a non-profit they are bound by law to make their financial statements available to the general public. I would think that they (DCI leaders) would gladly show their members how their money is spent and what their plans are for the future without having to hunt for it. I personally am not as interested in the bottom line as I am in the priorities for expenses. I have no doubt the bill for finals week is huge and that breaking even is a struggle every year. I just think that every corps should know what their membership fees are and are not paying for just as parents and members should know what their dues and fundraising are and are not paying for.
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By the way, if you are bringing this anti-DCI thread...you better have more on the table than an investigation of the DCI budget.
Ten million sounds like a lot of cash right? Not very much at all actually. And guidestar will show you the bottom line on the net. I would wager it being around $250,000.00 or less at the end of the year...and last year (2008), I have a source who told me DCI did not break even.
So, it's not like DCI has $10,000,000.00 lining someone's pocket. Again, bring something better to the table about what DCI does or doesn't do.
Tom,
I am not trying to be anti-DCI. I was responding to a comment made about DCI paying for things that they don't pay for. I am not asking for an investigation of the DCI budget. As a non-profit they are bound by law to make their financial statements available to the general public. I would think that they (DCI leaders) would gladly show their members how their money is spent and what their plans are for the future without having to hunt for it. I personally am not as interested in the bottom line as I am in the priorities for expenses. I have no doubt the bill for finals week is huge and that breaking even is a struggle every year. I just think that every corps should know what their membership fees are and are not paying for just as parents and members should know what their dues and fundraising are and are not paying for.
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Travis ... Hammer. Nail. Head. Hit.
You've nailed it Travis. To quote a line in the movie "The Right Stuff" ... "No Bucks, No Buck Rogers. It's not rockets that get us into space, it's funding".
You can have the most talented kids in the world, with the most entertaining show, but if you can't get them in safe busses, feed them on tour, and oh yes, buy equipment and pay staff ... your corps is destined to fail.
In "the good old days" of the '70s, DCI did hold regional seminars, where experts from the stronger corps would give training on all subjects: "How to score a song for drum corps voices", "How to feed a corps on tour", "How to do souvies", etc. And the smaller corps (such as the Blue Devils at that time) could learn from the "masters". I don't remember when these seminars stopped, but I think it was sometime in the late '70s, early '80s.
One of the main things that I have found in my time in corps management is that most corps treat their business like a "non-profit" not like a "business". By this, I mean there are a number of dedicated passionate individuals who spend a lot of personal time and personal money in getting the corps going and doing whatever it takes. They eventually get burned out, and someone else comes in and the cycle continues. Operational things get done because they become fires that need to be put out ... not necessarily because of lack of planning, but because of lack of volunteers, lack of time, etc. The board spends time worrying about thinks like "who's going to sew flags", or "where do we find a place to rehearse", rather than "how can we raise money", "how do we manage our finances", etc.
A few corps have made the transition from a "Parents Club" to a "business". By this I mean that there is a Board of Directors that are passionate about the activity, but ALSO have strong, and diverse, business skills: Accounting, Legal, Property Management, Entrepreneur, Technical, Finance, who, by there nature, are good at strategic (long term) thinking and planning, along with the experience to do tactical (day-to-day) management as needed. One other key factor to these "business governance" models, is that the board members are not paid staff (which presents a conflict of interest) or have a majority of active parents (to get away from the "you should give our kids more breaks" problem). The Board of Directors hires an Executive Director / CEO to take care of the budgeting and the day-to-day running of the organization, who then is accountable to the board.
Businesses manage their assets (i.e., money, people) to give them the best "Return".
You make some good points. DCI's first priority is to set up a tour schedule, and to manage / promote it's own shows. And, their priority is set by the DCI Board of Directors, who are themselves (mostly) corps directors.
Again, money comes into play ... how much money should DCI invest in promotions of shows (that aren't DCI sponsored regional shows)? They don't have alot of money right now to spend. HOWEVER, I do believe that they should be providing guidance to local show sponsors on HOW to promote their shows (i.e., sample press releases, videos to give to TV stations, etc.). Putting together a "reusable package" that show sponsors can use to guide them through the show management process would be of immense help.
Also, as a separate issue, I think that DCI should (as they did in the '70s), teach new corps directors / staff on how to run their corps (i.e., transportation, food, music, logistics, etc.). Again, the training for new corps would be invaluable to many small corps (as it was to us).
And finally, I think that DCI should be fostering a business interchange between the Board of Directors of corps. All corps Boards have the exact same problems of finance, legal, and other issues. The competition should be by the kids on the field, not between boards of directors. The Boards should be putting their talents on 1) making sure their organization is financially viable, and 2) making sure the activity is viable so there will be place for their corps to perform in the future!
Excellent statements, Travis. The primary goal of every corps should be a positive, live enriching experience through their performances and interrelationships with their peers and staff. It was for me. The only thing I played before I was in BD was the accordion! Jim Ott, Wayne Downey, and Mel Canales taught me how to play the bari from scratch and I was a lead after one year, and gave me the confidence to become section leader, which led to many successes in my life. I wish everyone that opportunity.
The thing that makes Drum Crops "relevant" to todays society is this unique life enriching experience. It's not the big tours and the big shows, it's the life experience. I got this experience through Jerry Seawright right from the start. And I got this experience mainly, not as a "DCI Winner", but through the process of getting there. Jerry set the tone of the organization in "the good old days" when we were still loosing to the Audobon Bon-Bon Girls!
It does require sacrifice ... but not only that, it requires leadership to provide the strategic business planning, and the tactical follow-through, at all levels: DCI, Regionally, Board of Directors, Executive Director, and Staff.
Sorry for rambling ... my 2 centavos!
Jeff,
Terrific input for this important topic.
Here are some random comments:
I wholeheartedly agree about the various boards of directors acting like boards of directors. The line I hate the most when trying to get things accomplished is, "This is always the way the (insert corps name here or DCI for that matter) does things." I also think that they get intimidated by directors, or feel like if they hold instructors accountable, the corps will fall apart. The organization has to be stronger than the individuals running it.
On that same note, DCI should take a leadership role in establishing cooperation among the corps at the business level. Too often the pettiness and one-upsmanship are left unaddressed by the leaders at DCI. No one individual or corps or even group of "elite" corps should be stronger than the organization.
It's hard to have the primary goal of each corps as "a positive, li(f)e enriching experience through their performances and interrelationships with their peers and staff.", when the demands of the DCI tour are so expensive and rigid. The way it stands now and for the foreseeable future there is no room for many young people who aren't wealthy or connected in drum corps
I realize that money is the driving force in most of these problems. But if money drove everything we did, we would not have weddings or children, they're expenses far outweigh the tax deductions.
Rick Melcher
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2) DCI doesn’t bring in enough profit to have the marketing strategies of other larger non-profit companies because a generous part of their proceeds go towards offsetting the cost of school uses, stadiums, marketing, operations, financial compensation, and to help aid the competing corps’...and to make sure all of the judges get to all of the shows and they have nice comfortable rocks to sleep on...well, that or they pay good money to have them run around the field with sticks up their a**es. I think if they did more publications like issuing press releases for their shows (especially for the open-class corps) that they would be best off utilizing local media to do their job for them. I used to march for a Div. III corps, so I know what it’s like to be neglected by DCI. The music world is very small, so I would imagine that exposure is obtained through conventions and general hype by educators, fans, parents, and members. Broadcasting Quarter Finals live in the theaters, but I highly doubt they profit anything after operational costs. I know I do what I can. The sad truth is that when people are introduced to the activity, they’re shown a show from one of the “big boys.” I mean, you’re not going to show them a video of the Cherrychoke Brigadiers from 1982, you’re going to show them Madison ’95, Cadets ’00, Star ’93, Phantom ’96, Blue Devils ’99, Cavaliers ’02, etc.
Sincerely,
Travis Fisk
Rather than loose my temper about the "generous part of their (DCI) proceeds", I will simply say this. I invite DCI to publically display their financial report (in a fashion where the average person can read it) and show the entire drum corps world EXACTLY what their $10,000,000 annual budget pays for and how it helps the individual corps. This is the amount Dan Acheson stated in his interview with Inside Indiana Business.
When we were "required" to host a show, we were "required" to paid for the housing of the corps and the judges, marketing and advertising, and the stadium. We were NEVER given any compensation from DCI, but we were always "required" to pay our membership dues.
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2) DCI doesn’t bring in enough profit to have the marketing strategies of other larger non-profit companies because a generous part of their proceeds go towards offsetting the cost of school uses, stadiums, marketing, operations, financial compensation, and to help aid the competing corps’...and to make sure all of the judges get to all of the shows and they have nice comfortable rocks to sleep on...well, that or they pay good money to have them run around the field with sticks up their a**es. I think if they did more publications like issuing press releases for their shows (especially for the open-class corps) that they would be best off utilizing local media to do their job for them. I used to march for a Div. III corps, so I know what it’s like to be neglected by DCI. The music world is very small, so I would imagine that exposure is obtained through conventions and general hype by educators, fans, parents, and members. Broadcasting Quarter Finals live in the theaters, but I highly doubt they profit anything after operational costs. I know I do what I can. The sad truth is that when people are introduced to the activity, they’re shown a show from one of the “big boys.” I mean, you’re not going to show them a video of the Cherrychoke Brigadiers from 1982, you’re going to show them Madison ’95, Cadets ’00, Star ’93, Phantom ’96, Blue Devils ’99, Cavaliers ’02, etc.
Sincerely,
Travis Fisk
Rather than loose my temper about the "generous part of their (DCI) proceeds", I will simply say this. I invite DCI to publically display their financial report (in a fashion where the average person can read it) and show the entire drum corps world EXACTLY what their $10,000,000 annual budget pays for and how it helps the individual corps. This is the amount Dan Acheson stated in his interview with Inside Indiana Business.
When we were "required" to host a show, we were "required" to paid for the housing of the corps and the judges, marketing and advertising, and the stadium. We were NEVER given any compensation from DCI, but we were always "required" to pay our membership dues.
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Thanks for what ALL of you ARE doing to continue the greter good of the activity.
Rick Melcher
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Please tell me it's against the rules for someone to sit in the stands with a cell phone and communicate with the "electronics operator" during the show
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Please tell me it's against the rules for someone to sit in the stands with a cell phone and communicate with the "electronics operator" during the show
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I have waited until there were a few other responses before I wanted to put my two cents in. I definitely like the idea of reviving regional drum corps organizations and parade corps. These ideas would require less travel and expenses while increasing opportunities. I also think that there are any number of local festivals, county fairs, etc. that could provide both performance and parade opportunities. One last idea; no scores, only critique until the last couple of weeks of the season. This would provide opportunity for improvement without having to regard the other performers as opponents.
I am glad to see the responses here are positive and respectful. I know that DCI finals are only days away and I think DCA finals are in a couple of weeks but I really would like to hear from someone from those two organizations directly. I could call them and have a private conversation but I think the conversation needs to be as public as possible.
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Thanks for the input about DCA. I agree it is not DCA's place to bail out DCI. I only lumped them together as part of the overall discussion since they are the only two "official" drum corps organizations I know of.
Rick
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Disclaimer: This post is offered as an opportunity to stimulate an important discussion, NOT to criticize.
I don't know what qualifies someone as knowledgeable enough to make observations or offer opinions that will be taken seriously within this activity. I offer my observations as someone who has never marched or instructed, but as someone who has observed both admirable and reprehensible conduct of not only individuals but organizations within the drum corps activity. While this is naturally true about nearly any kind of activity you can think of, the reason I write this post is because I truly believe that the tremendous amount of good that this activity offers young people far outweighs the selfishness and pettiness that, in my opinion, is steadily on the rise.
In these troubled times, DCI and DCA need to look very carefully at what their roles in the future of the OVERALL activity will be. There is undoubtedly a steady decline in participation. While there is a natural tendency to focus on the blame for this decline, focus should instead be on what to do to reverse the decline. The participants of this activity should be able to look to the collective experience of the officials in both DCI and DCA to provide enough leadership to guide this activity through the inevitable changes ahead. At the same time these same officials should be leading in the effort to INCREASE the number of opportunities for young people to enjoy the positive experiences that drum corps provides.
I invite DCI and DCA officials especially, but also the corps organizations and drum corps fans everywhere to answer the following questions:
1) What SPECIFICALLY are you doing to INCREASE the oportunities in drum corps for young people everywhere?
2) What SPECIFICALLY are you doing to promote the drum corps activity, ESPECIALLY AT THE BEGINNER LEVEL?
3) Does a 12,13,14,15,16,etc. year-old with no money and no prior musical experience but a strong desire to learn, have a future in drum corps?
It is my opinion that if these issues are not addressed with open minds and soon, the drum corps activity will be reduced to a small, elitist tour of well connected and/or wealthy performers interested in little more than their egos and/or their wallets. One last thing. It would show some integrity if those of you wishing to respond would use your real names.
Rick Melcher
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First off Greendale HS seems it was made to host small corps, awesome seating, the consessions wern't insanly over priced (and lets face it, they usually are), and the weather held out to make it a beautiful night to watch drum corps.
As usual for an open class show there was a fairly small but extreamly supportive crowd. I urge all of you that wait for the World class shows to get off of your collective butts and go to an open class show. These were all quality groups, and more entertaining then the norm of what world class is these days. So that being said off we go.
Overall it was a great night of drum corps. Racine did a great job of putting together a quality line up, and the orginization from a fan stand point was great! and Greendale HS did a great job of hosting. Thanks again for a great night!
My wife and I live only a few blocks from the stadium in Greendale. We spent a good deal of time in the afternoon watching two of the corps rehearse. Many people from the surrounding neighborhoods heard the music and showed up out of curiosity. We gladly took the time to explain what was going on and answer questions. The most common comment was, " I wish we would have known about this sooner. We already made plans tonight." I agree that the Racine Scouts organization and Greendale HS did a great job putting on the show.
I do not feel qualified comment on the performances or the review directly. I couldn't carry a tune in a dump truck. I will say that I was thoroughly entertained and after all, isn't that what it's all about?
This reply was for the review of the show. See my other topic thread for further discussion.
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I have not posted to this forum for quite a while, but I feel I must on this topic. In real life I am a high school math teacher at a large urban school. I have been involved with drum corps as a parent, driver, cook, bingo worker, concession stand worker and a member of the Board of Directors. I have also coached several sports including state championship level athletes for over twenty years. I say all this to qualify that my comments come from a broad prospective.
The true nature of competition is a comparison of one's self or organization against another or a given standard. I agree that competition in and of itself is a healthy endeavor. It energizes people to improve. If it is done with a group it provides support and encouragement to do things which might be difficult alone. When conducted in a mature, respectful way it provides confidence and respect to ALL who compete.
Unfortunately competition has been replaced by winning. Respect for fellow competitors has been replaced by ridicule and mean-spiritedness often displayed in the postings to this and other forums. Improvement and growth within the activity have been replaced by lobbying for changes to gain an advantage. Increasing, or at least maintaining, opportunities for young people to better themselves has been replaced by a narrowing of focus that in my opinion will kill the activity in a very short time.
Using the statement, "Pioneer beats Phantom", to justify the importance of scores insults everyone involved with the Pioneer organization. It should insult everyone who understands the great benefit this activity gives to EVERYONE involved. In TRUE competition, any corps should be able to win on any given night. If the Troopers beat Santa Clara because Santa Clara just put in their closer and it was sloppy while the Troopers did their whole show cleanly, then you can talk about true competition. Yes there will be a "Champion" crowned this year and we should all celebrate the accomplishments of the young people who gave that performance as well as the organization who gave them the opportunity. Unfortunately, the growing mentality is that unless you are in that "winning" corps, you are a loser, especially if you are not in an "elite" corps. That is not TRUE competition.
Rick Melcher
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"I have received a couple of messages from people associated with Capital Sound expressing their concern about trying to come back with MJS being active. Potentially, it could create competition for membership. Although we have kicked around the idea of inviting alums to play, the target group we have discussed is middle school aged kids. It seems to me (I may be wrong) that Cap Sound's membership is typically older than that. That being the case, we could be potentially feeding Cap Sound as well as the Scouts. I will say publicly, on this forum, that we never deliberately set out to disrespect or kill off Capital Sound. If this project ever takes that turn, I will leave it. I want to see the activity grow and prosper. I invite Cap Sound people to PM me with their thoughts. I promise to respond respectfully and to bring them up at our meetings."
David,
I'm not sure what PM means but I am asking you directly to stop making vague references to "people associated with Capital Sound". If you want to contact someone with authority in the Capital Sound organization directly, then you may e-mail me directly at capsounddad@yahoo.com. In the meantime, please stop giving people the impression that ANYONE you have spoken to has any authority to speak for Capital Sound.
Rick Melcher
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Cap Sound is inactive with no intentions of becoming active any time soon. Their board has already given verbal permission for MJS to use their horns.
As a member of the Capital Sound Drum and Bugle Corps Board of Directors, I can tell you that no one has been given any kind of permission to use our horns or any of our equipment. Any "verbal permission" has no legal authorization. Comments of this nature seem to be getting out of hand and could lead to legal repercussions. In the future, please do not speak for the Board of Directors unless you have written permission to do so.
If you wish to have serious discussions with our organization about our equipment, I suggest you contact the Corps and speak to the Board directly, instead of hiding behind some on-line name in a forum. If you wish to pursue your ideas independently, you have my best wishes.
Rick Melcher
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Please see Capital Sound web site www.capsound.org for an OFFICIAL announcement from the Board of Directors
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When wil DCI tell us finals will be in Louisville?????
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I was just informed over on the II/II forum that prelims and semis will be at Pasadena City College and finals will be at the Rose Bowl on Saturday before Div. 1
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DCI 2007 DIV II prelims and semi's will be at Pasadena City College,
DIV II/III finals will be at the Rose Bowl on Saturday the same day as Div I finals
When was this decided and why weren't we notified?
Any word on housing or required/focus shows?
Severe Storms Hit Indiana
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
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CHEAP SHOT