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Every corps has a membership contract which is quite specific regarding things like bullying, harassment, poor behavior, hazing, controlled substances, etc. Even though the dreaded reefer is now legal in places like here in Maine, Massachusetts, etc it is still against federal law. Add to this the dimension of corps travelling through the night after each show and crossing through multiple jurisdictions, nobody could fault the organizations for having zero tolerance. As for alcohol, it is not a comparable situation because the drinking age in all 50 states is 21, so if a legal-age member wanted to have a beer on a free night that should pose no liability to the corps as long as there is no stupid behavior which results from it. I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express one night.

Also...having my DCU and DCI fandoms collide on DCP is getting confusing.

Let them worry about it, not you. Be less jerky & wish them well. As the saying goes "In a world where you can be anything...be kind".

See, there's so much you could have said without punching him in the nose in the process. Daggers are not necessary. He has his opinion - you've been trumpeting your incredulous attitude towards legacy fans for a long time. You're consistent, if nothing else. Your opinion is as valid as his, but he didn't jab you, personally, or anyone else in posting his feelings. I value his opinion more as a result. "The older you get, the smarter I'll get" said every father and "Legacy Fan".

For several years my delight with Drum Corps has been waning. My first experience with Drum Corps was in 2004 at the invitation of Dr. Thomas Root. It was electrifying for me. The sound had majesty, grace, and purity. I went to the souvenir trailers and purchased every CD I could lay my hands on. The quality of the recordings were much more variable than quality of the Corps on the field. None of the CDs were electrifying to me. Then for many years I endeavored to record all those elements, with various success. Along the way I provided yearly support for the Ogden Corps Encore Show. I recall clearly when I was faced with the first instance of canned show program, I was incredulous. In subsequent years the shows got even more canned and more amplified - rather than a race to have great musicians it was a race for expensive mixer boards, equalizers and speaker systems. As a side note there was also a race to incorporate props and scenery. During the last show in Ogden, I listened carefully - I was not electrified. I was electrified during some of the rehearsals that didn’t have the amplification running. It could be that there is a cumulative million+ hours of devotion within the members of a corps, and then all that majesty, grace, and purity is stuffed through a PA system. Now I have lost any interest in attending or supporting. I don’t like listening to amazing musicians through a vitiating PA system. Moreover I feel guilty about any of my efforts, donations, or support that subsidizes PA systems. It might be valid to compare the use of PA systems to steroid use, for my taste it sounds bad and feels like cheating. I sorrow for those million hours of musician devotion that I don’t hear with majesty, grace and purity. Ray Kimber, Ogden Utah

as someone who's been involved in both DCI and DCA, this does no favors for the all-age groups by making them second fiddle. Here's why. There's simply not enough time in the season on the proposed schedule to create a show that they are currently producing at the level they are currently producing. So the product being sold would suffer. it would cut the shows in August which would then cut the money made from those shows. corps revenue would suffer. There's the travel cost. Which, understood, there's going to be travel costs no matter what. However, with the majority of groups in the northeast, and the majority of DCA fans in the northeast, this will inhibit who can attend. I'm all for DCI expanding All-Age class and providing performance opportunity throughout the country at the local shows. This is something that would help to grow the All-Age groups and provide some much needed exposure. I don't believe that piggy backing DCA onto DCI week is a good idea or profitable for the DCA groups. I think DCA still needs its own weekend, possibly the week before Labor day to allow students in college and high school to participate, and in a venue and city that gives you a championship feel. I don't dislike Williamport due to how it bends over backwards for the event, I do wish there was something a little more to it.

You act as if you know everything about the actions YEA did or did not take. In a court of law a judge would dismiss everything you're crying about. At this time we don't have all the facts. We have heard one side of the story. What we know is a volunteer is looking to be compensated for an injury that required medical treatment along with travel expenses (I assume). I hope he is OK and recovering, and it's tragic that this happened to him. Accidents do happen on the road. You're acting like the entire YEA org is a complete failure. Frankly, most of them just started on the job and have had very little time to develop the programs, policies, and fund raising. You have to stop pointing the finger at everyone in YEA. You don't have the slightest clue what actions they have taken since this accident. It's clear to me you lack experience with the Law and how these things are handled. Until you have total facts from both parties, stop trying to paint an incomplete picture.

Pioneer did not follow the steps they were told to follow, hence the suspension. Cadets basically put sn entire new admin in place that satisfied the terms of their probation.

Finals out doors in Madison once every four years.

I believe some people are just more frustrated because the thought was that a lot of this would change with new people at the helm. While we know change takes a relatively long time to take place, it's important to understand that Cadets need no more controversy given the circumstances. However, I am ALWAYS against giving up. That's not the lesson Cadets taught when I marched and I don't believe many people on this thread who marched there learned that lesson as well. Regardless, I, too, am pleased with the people who are (back) at the helm and although I am reserving any excitement until August, I am hopeful that we will get a competitive product this upcoming season. FHNSAB...

You are correct about the membership rule. If I remember correctly, corps had to declare either 100% (all members were veterans) or 80/20 (80% of your membership were veterans). Reilly, Archie, and Skyliners (they were called Garbarina then) Officers met and decided they would declare 80/20 and would not protest each other. Those same Officers were shocked when they were notified, after the prelims, that they had been protested. There was much finger pointing between the three corps. There was even a fight when one of the Officers threw a punch at another Officer. That Officer ducked and the culprit hit the wife! Years later it was discovered that the protestor was Jim Costello of Hawthorne. Ah, the stories

A pattern of not handling situations that require some type of administrative intelligence very well. That pattern. Also a pattern of 'supporters' making excuses for them. Don't expect everyone to agree but it's there.

Looks like a good weekend in Cadetland. Nice video in article. https://yea.org/news/homecoming-hall-fame-recap?fbclid=IwAR3o3nVfpGFj7CxcRZFLtxdf2k6dUIzGIsrrnJi55SYioJ_Sq2Haa1fVigY

Talent and cleaning already in place. They just need more effective work and aesthetics. The guard got lost in drill too often ( sabers and dancers esp.) last year. Transparency is a cool concept indoors but it does not translate well to a football field with judges 60 yds away. Someone needs to be fixing these decisions before an order is placed or music is chosen. Hopefully Byron can help in that respect. Also just need more obvious flag work at impacts. Save subtle for Dayton! Write big work to the melodic line and rhythm. No one credits demand in DCI anyway. It’s all about effect. Music effect guys want to see what they hear and they’re not very good at noticing small details.

In my opinion, the single most influential DCI employee in those two decades was not even from the same time zone as Chicago. (Don Whiteley)

I think you could find another way to describe the original group's desires by not repeating characterizations that some, if not many, of Italian descent would find insulting. Plus, I think it's wrong to appropriate the feelings of the DCI founders to the member corps of today. I, personally, am not offended and often laud my mafia roots, but "Fredo" Cuomo might disagree. 😀

Fred did amazing work for DCI, the Bluecoats, and Troopers. He graduated from the same high school I did and was a member of the Warren Jr. Military Band when he was young (as was I, but I was about 10 years or so behind him). Fred did amazing work for Bluecoats as a BOD member and he helped in fund raising, including running the souvie operation on the road for entire summers. He was one of the guys DCI would call when a corps got into trouble. He was instrumental in making sure Capital Regiment got down the road and back home when their management failed the kids and ran out of money mid season. DCI called Fred to make things right. This was also the case for Troopers during their probation year. Unlike me trying to manage my check book, Fred actually knows what he is doing with finances and his influence on the activity is important. Way to go, Fred!!!!

You're doing a poor job of bifurcating poor media relations with poor behavior. In both cases -- I assume you are referring to the 2018 member assault issue and the 2019 bus driver incident -- YEA by all accounts that I am privy to did everything correctly substantively. The fact that the world found out about it is not indicative of a lack of proper management. Also, if someone decides to sue you, you have no way to control the narrative because lawsuits are public record. I don't get why you want to beat YEA over the head with this? They did everything right and you're like, "Yeah, but I found out about it, so they didn't do everything right," which is weird.

That's the Corps that was neck and neck with, but narrowly lost to Con Cord this year.

No, it would not be a bad thing. In fact, if the NE stays DCA because it is sustainable, and the other regions move on to find something more sustainable for them... that would be a good thing.

I was at the first one. I’ve been to 32 DCI championships.

Pac Crest is next. California will be well represented with four corps in finals 2020.

To be fair, that was more of a pre-existing stress fracture than "run and gun" drill which precipitated the injury. While in hindsight it's clear he shouldn't have been marching in that condition, I'm not sure the seriousness of his condition was fully appreciated at the time. I agree with the sentiment that high-velocity drill is far less dangerous than large vertical drops off precarious props. The attempt to equivocate the two is -- to say the least -- a big reach. The risk in drill are mostly bumps and bruises from collisions. The risk from a fall is immensely greater. The risk from a collapse with many students simultaneously dancing on the same prop is exponentially higher.

I think if you want DCA to grow, the shows need to make a conscious effort to invite SDCA, Soundsports, and even the indoor winds carry their shows over into summer to participate. Give more groups access to a performance, as well as ticket holders a few more pieces of entertainment, and they all may come back for more.

That's about as big of a 180 from the previous percussion design team as you can possibly get. It's gonna be fun seeing their writing in an east coast group like Boston!

I think with Indy being under contract for a decade I’d rather see the regionals moved! Trust me, it’s about the same price for me to fly direct from Boston to Honolulu right now that it is to have to an indirect flight to little old Indy with no hub so I don’t want to go there but reluctantly spend the money. Regionals should rotate between a list something similar to this and not every region has one every year. Teams not touring near the regions don’t have to go to the opposite coast maybe that makes centrally located ones a Super Regional Championship with every corps and the other regions have most corps West Pasadena (Rose bowl) Denver Southwest (Super Regional) San Antonio Dallas (AT&T) Midwest St. Louis Madison Columbus Southeast (Super Regional) Atlanta Charlotte Nashville East Boston (Gillette) NYC (MetLife)

I remember once Dunkin Donuts and orange soda

Princeton University in NJ has a great stadium.... and no Ivy League football on Labor Day weekend. Lots of hotels nearby, two major airports reasonably close (Philly and Newark, plus a smaller one in Trenton) and Nassau Street in Princeton is awesome... restaurants, pubs, etc. But unfortunately, the parking situation there is not good. Some sort of shuttle system would be needed. Plus several streets near the stadium might have to be all but shut down to accommodate corps vehicles. And that isn't easy.

more members brings more cost.

I hadn't considered DC either. Agreed, the Metro rules. Party at Fred's.

For one ticket price?

and hence i choose to end my live viewing season in Allentown...and save thousands

Is this better for the kids? Dunno. Seems to me that the kids are less interested in the size of the events than having more opportunities to perform.

I loathe domed stadiums, but understand the need.

Maybe DCI needs to put a spending cap on how much corps may spend to put a show on the field. Pro sports do it. Fund raising differs from state to state and we are all aware of some corps who have more money than they can spend due to those laws. Most corps do not have unlimited income. Those "Rich" corps always have the advantage in staff and touring. While DCI is at it... making corps compete in the same number of shows would help even out the disadvantage. Some corps do not have to compete as much and can rehearse as much as they want since they always have the cash. That is unfair to the majority of corps yet it continues year after year.

There seems to be much agreement that: a) this whole 'not paying staff on time' thing is not uncommon in drum corps and b) that it's an unfortunate thing but it is what it is and it's not that big a deal as long as they follow thru and eventually pay My question is why is that good enough anymore?? There have been so many ways in which corps have evolved their operations and financial models over the years to try and eliminate the gross mismanagement which has helped lead more corps to extinction that we care to count. One would think that paying your employees on time and for what they are contractually owed would be at or near the top of the list of ways to create a better reputation for yourself as a place where people can trust that they'll be treated right when they go to work there. And when you don't, that's a red flag to maybe think twice about what kind of operation you're getting yourself into, no matter how many championships have been previously won. I guess what I'm saying is that the days of throwing up your hands and saying, "well that's just the way it is in drum corps" need to go away when it comes to stuff like this. And whether or not this is an excuse people are using in this particular circumstance, this whole episode doesn't make the Cadets look good, that's for sure. Especially since it was well known before the season started that they were having cash flow problems. And in this day and age, there will soon come a point when the more often it happens, the more it could be (and should be IMO) construed as a warning sign of consistent poor budgetary planning on the part of the admin than anything else. I would like to think that no corps wants that label hung around their necks. So in a general sense applying to all corps, don't spend $$$ on what you can't afford. If that means one or two fewer large props on the field or 5-10 fewer staff members (out of what seems like an average of 40 or so per corps these days), then so be it. The best way to serve your members is to stay in existence, and the best way to do that is to budget smartly and pay your bills on time IMO

Technically, they were tied to Pioneer in the early days - The former Pioneer Indoor now known as Pi Percussion has been based in Romeoville since pretty much their inception. They were using Pioneer's Equipment and buses in the DCI off season to save costs. There was some overlap in staff initially with Adam Hill Serving as Director of the Indoor group and percussion caption head at Pioneer Drum Corps in the early years (2008-2010 maybe?). Fast forward to this past WGI season, Pi Percussion (for good reason) drops the Pioneer name. Shortly after this Pioneer's DCI status is revoked but they still participate in the Southside Irish Parade with the help of alumni and a few students from a local Chicago school taught by a Pioneer alum (not Adam as listed above). There was some momentum captured through this effort which lasted through the summer in the form of a summer parade group (drumline). It seems they are hoping to have a home base in Milwaukee and continue to offer opportunities to the students who have been part of the summer group who are mainly from the Chicago area. This group may be be supported by Pioneer in some way shape or form but guessing that will only be equipment and transportation to shows. A lot can happen in a few months though.

Still appears as though some on hear are hoping that the Cadets cease operations...sad. Thankfully the Cadets have a dedicated staff of good people who are ignoring the critics and are committed to moving the corps in a positive direction. Kudos to the good people at the helm of the Cadets!

Sometimes I think he is on this thread with a new name

Look on the bright side. Slow paid is better than no paid, yet feel bad for those expecting $$$

FYI. Darian Sanders former DM and staff member selected for an understudy role for Lion King on Bway. Way to go Darian, follow your dreams! https://mobile.twitter.com/i/topics/news/e556366412?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email

Matt was the assistant caption head or maybe co-caption head. Still, an excellent pick up!

In a way...it's somewhat refreshing to be in a situation of fighting to improve vs fighting to win. It changes your perspective and makes your goals more approachable and easier to hit. "We want to break 80 by x show" is attainable given a certain talent level. I learned to appreciate small gains much more in my DCA years than in my DCI years.

I think recent announcements are so much more promising than past years. So I'm optimistic. The challenge I have is the Cadets that I love so much vs. wtf is going on with modern programming. I really am so sick of props and the little they add.

Those stands were splintery. It was hotter than I expected. It was fun, though.

actually, the Cavies wear the Green not just for Finals but parade and concert performances, wore them for Don Warren's funeral, etc. You are correct that there are logistical aspects to be considered (storage, transportation, upkeep) but these are minor compared to the confusion of the recent years (who is that corps???)

easiest marketing approach: Come here and learn. Go to DCI and apply. Then come back here and show he next generation.

Really??? One person paints a picture in order to make money via a lawsuit and it is a "pattern" on the part of the Cadets admin???

Yes, that's my take on this too. Accidents like this happen even at good companies -- although the lack of administrative follow-up that is alleged, if true, shows some carelessness and callousness that YEA should be careful not to repeat.

During my many years working with the Cadets and other drum corps, I had torn my labrum, torn my ACL, Broke my big and middle toes, broke fingers and had multiple 2nd and 3rd degree burns. I even had a big azz chair fall on my head. I never thought about suing a drum corps and I'm sure they would pay my hospital fees if asked.