Jay B
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Posts posted by Jay B
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I remember watching. Weren't they on ice? Do you know how 27th got the gig?
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I love seeing this. A "neighborhood" corps. Looks like old fashioned snares and rotary/piston G bugles. I'll bet they are having a blast.
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DCI Championships were not on the radar for most corps back then. I see only 39 corps competed in prelims. I was in the 507 Hornets and we only competed in our circuit (Eastern States Circuit), whose members were mostly from PA and Southern New Jersey.
In fact, if you didn't read the activity papers or mags, or were connected to the activity in some way, you were probably not aware of DCI. I had gone to 70 and 71 VFW, so thought I'd travel to Minneapolis for 72 VFW. Well, there were a lot of fans there wondering where the corps were. That is when I discovered DCI, and I remember being pretty frustrated. Yes, there were only 39 corps at Whitewater, but all the best were there. The Cavies, Argonne, Bridgemen, and Kilts were the only top 12 DCI corps in Minneapolis. It took me until 75 to make a DCI championship. Got to Whitewater for DCI midwest 80 thru 82, and feel it is a pretty good place to watch and listen to drum corps.
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I always wondered how much better those all-male hornlines may have been, had they admitted females.
Argonne Rebels, who dominated the early '70s horn caption, had a then unheard of 18 girls in their '71 hornline (1st in brass at VFW Nationals) and an even more unheard of 23 in their '73 hornline (2nd in total brass at DCI).
They had Sandra Opie as well, which didn't hurt.
Wasn't their guard all-male? It sure looks that way on the videos.
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Wow, it goes back that far?
And it replaced Ballet in Brass from 62. Lotta years spent playing those two pieces.
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Please refer to posts #6
#7 
and ah... #8 
Not to mention shows like the Dream, the World and U.S. Open where the fans were rabid and the stands were full!I was watching a DVD of the 1970 Troopers at the World Open and the back stands are full. Can you imagine buying a ticket to watch the performers backs? Same thing 1967 American Legion. Back in the 60's/70's, it wasn't unheard of for shows to alternate the concerts side, with every other corp playing away from you.
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Marched early 60's. Avid fan up thru late 80's.
1. Grass-roots/neighborhood corps.
2. Loud horn lines using anything that would generate the sound of the old G lines.
3. Great rudimental snare lines using low-tension heads.
4. Horizontally oriented, symmetrical drills (lines and arcs, as apposed to boxes.)
5. Musical arranging done by folks who have not been indoctrinated by the music education establishment. This goes for players too.
6. You play it, you carry it.
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This picture is courtesy of my friend Tom Michalski.
Polish Falcons and Blessed Sac at the ready.
I love these old starting line photos where 2 or three corps are stacked up. It was like an assembly line. Being from the mid-west, I don't think I ever saw the Falcons, but love those uniforms. They really pop. Same color tops and bottoms was pretty rare I think. Milwaukee St. Pats Imperials is the only other corps that I can remember doing that. From the looks of it, they must have been a pretty young group.
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Alberta All Girls at the rodeo 1974. This may be the Senior corps but most likely the Junior corps based on the DM and guard. From 1974-1977 both corps had the same uniform. It's hard to tell the difference from a distance
I always hated playing these kinds of venues, but they were important I think in keeping your corps out there. Who's the person in the Kingsmen jacket?
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In 1972 I decided to go to the VFW national championships in Minneapolis. I had gone to Miami(1970) and Dallas (1971), so 700 miles up I35 from Kansas and I'd enjoy another couple of days of Drum Corps at its best. What I didn't know, is that the Combine had become DCI, had already held their own championship, and that most of the top 12 DCI corps would not be in Minneapolis. I'll bet a good portion of the crowd was as surprised as I. Once I got over my disappointment of not seeing the Vanguard or Troopers, I really enjoyed the show. As I remember, the Cavies, Argonne, and the Bridgemen were there. After the show, I picked up a subscription to Drum corps Digest (I don't think it was World) so I would know what was going on.
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Mark Baker (1979-1985), Ralph Poznanski (1973-1979), and Tom Kasten (1953-1959) all spent seven years marching snare. Pretty impressive. I expected to see this happen in the 50's when corps members came from the neighborhood and were younger on average than today, but was surprised that the 70's and especially the 80's were represented. These guys were 14 when they started. There are 10 guys with 5/6 years, including a few guys from the 90's and 00's.
Sal Ferrara and Larry McCormick are the most significant names on this list.
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Troopers
I'm ok with it. I think an improvement over the previous one. I'll reserve judgment till I see it on the field. Not to sure about the guard uni though.
By the way, interesting looking mouth pieces on the mellophones. I've never seen anything like that. What is the purpose of all that metal?
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I know that the Cavaliers "pre-season" recording that year was actually done after the season had begun, but still very early in the season. Most of the corps (as the Cavaliers did) recorded these sessions in standstill, arched-up horn line formation with several mics set up appropriately for sound balance. That's part of reason the recording sounded so good. You'll note that 27th Lancers' performance is at an early season show (on the field, not at standstill). We (Cavaliers) did several "takes" of different songs in order to get the quality as good as possible. I understand most others did it this way too, though probably not all.
I don't remember this album, but would like to own it. Anyone know the exact name of it?
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My favorite was "State of the Art" for 1979 with BD. This was an early, I believe, March recording which just blew my doors off! I remember having our high school band director ( an absolute hater of anything drumcorps) listen to this and he loved it (until we let him know it was drumcorps)! What an ###!
I bought this record at the 1980 DCI championships in Birmingham, and listened to it that night. Today I listened to it for the second time. This could have been the best ever. The performances are stunning, but the recording is second rate. Generally, it is the echo that destroys this recording for me. It sounds as if they put the corps in a big shower room. Sounds get muddled and indistinct, especially in the low brass and bass drums. Maybe the Concord pavilion was the wrong venue, or microphones were placed wrong. Who knows. But I can't listen to it without thinking of how much better it could have been. Anyway, I do understand about band directors. I almost got kicked out of my HS band for marching DC.
My list:
1. Hawthorne Cabs standstill recording done by Fleetwood in I think 1961 or 1962, with their 1961 field performance on side B. This record introduced me to state-of-the-art DC, and listening to it you understand why the Cabs were the best. Great soloists and enough standards to make the Beatles jealous.
2. 1965 VFW Championships, McCormick Place, Chicago. This is the only instance that I can think of where a national championship was held indoors, on a hard service (tile over concrete as I remember). Some of the best performances you will ever here from most of the Corps, especially the Royal Airs, Kilts, and Cavies. A seminal show.
3. 1972 DCI championships. I think this is one of the best quality DC recordings ever made. Too bad you can't get the LP version anymore.
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Finally, Ken Norman. Pretty much all of my favorites are now in (except the guy who did Madison's horn book in the early sixties and Hy Dreitzer). I remember Norman's 1964 french horn solo during the Kilties closer, which I really liked. He looked kind of Clark Kentish in his dark rimmed glasses. I didn't realize who he was until later, when he was marching with and arranging for the Kenosha Kingsmen senior corps in 65. It would be interesting to know where Emil Pavlik (2009 HOF) left off and Ken Norman began. I was thinking that they shared responsibilities during some period but not sure. Also, how much of an influence did Pavlik have on him?
Anyway, congratulation to all.
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Hard to get a lot of prize money when admission to finals was only two bucks. 1968 VFW finals had maybe around 15,000 spectators; I think 1969 had a little more. At two bucks a ticket they grossed about thirty grand. After expenses there wasn't "big money" left to be paid out as prize money. You also have to remember that prize money was paid out in other contests too such as band, color guard and drill team; the VFW didn't just hold a drum and bugle corps contest. These other convention contests didn't draw what the finals of the drum corps contest did, so I would guess that the prize money paid to these other contest winners was siphoned off of the money made at the VFW drum and bugle corps finals. I also believe that prelims at VFW nationals was free for spectators; maybe the band, color guard and drill team contests were free too. I don't believe that the VFW was all that interested in putting a lot more time, effort and money into their national convention contests. One has to remember that in reality the VFW staged "The Million Dollar Pageant of Drums" contest as an entertainment event for their convention attendees, not to do the drum corps activity a favor by holding some sort of a drum and bugle corps national championship. Also the VFW was mainly interested in having a large, colorful and entertaining convention parade. To lure drum corps, bands, color guards and drill teams to march in their convention parade, they had to hold a nice contest for them. In other words, in my opinion, "The Million Dollar Pageant of Drums" contest that was held each year at the VFW national convention was the carrot that drew in these drum corps and other units to march in their convention parade without the VFW having to pay them to do so. The VFW didn't make much money holding these contests, but as long as this plan worked and these units marched their parade for free I think the VFW was very happy and content. As a further incentive, the VFW presented an award at each national convention to the best drum and bugle corps in the parade.
A lot of truth in what you are saying. I think by the time the VFW championships ended, most corps had no connection to the VFW posts other than they needed a sponsor to march in the contest and the post wanted a corp in the contest. When I marched in the early 60's, I would say that half of our corps members fathers were VFW members. By the late 60's, early 70's, there really wasn't a lot of built in loyalty to the VFW left by the corps and Vic Versa.
I think you are right about the free prelims. I went down to Miami for the 1970 championships with no real plan to attend prelims. While driving down some main drag, I passed some high school type football field with wood bleachers, and there was a drum corps performing. I quickly parked and walked in. Nobody asked for a ticket so I assume it was free. I think I caught the last 10 or so corps. Same experience in Dallas in 1971.
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What the heck are the horns? Look like single piston bass Baris as look awful large and can't see a rotor.
Not earth shattereing but Westshormen changed unis twice in the late 70s, each change was a new direction.
pre-76: cadet type with powder blue top and "Bonnie Scot" (corps they merged with) plaid sash, black pants and (spray painted black) shako. (no pic
)76-78: Blue Devils old uni (satin blue blouses/silver sash and cumberbund) when they switched (same shako)
79: black with blue trim, looked sharp in the light and honr line disappeared in the back of dimmly lit stadiums (same #### shako)
80-?: replaced shako (how old WERE they) with white Aussie (mine turned green after a few years
)Sorry I can't get to Photobucket for pics...
Those are euphoniums. There is a rotor somewhere in there. I think Madison marched all euphs that year. They just look large next to the rather small in the day Contra's on the right.
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I remember my old JR.corps Menominee Northernaires 60's uni were almost identical to the Cavis.In 69 we obtained Ike Jackets from Madison.Being all male at the time it was funny. coming on to the field and listening to the people in the stands trying to figure out if we were the scouts or the Cavies.
We did have a strong connection to the Cavies in the fact that we had Monk come up as a instuctor along with Denny Hagner writing some of our drum book.
I think the Ike jackets you are talking about were from the West Point uniforms that Madison wore 67(?) and 68. Before the Ikes they wore these from 62. They looked better with black shoes (62-65).
Before these they wore the traditional explorer uniforms, which they brought back in 69. This pic is from 66.
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It's always interesting to look at breakdowns, no?
Nice article. I posted the recap a while back as I was interested in pointing out the two DCI hall of famers who judged brass; Fabrizio and Royer.
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The Chicago Royal-Airs played the Paul Anka hit song "Diana" for a number of years in the very early 1960's. Although in 1965 we were the first and only drum corps to ever win the Triple crown of the drum corps nationals (CYO, VFW & American Legion) in the same year we didn't have a Contra Bass to march with until 1966. In 1967 we marched with 59 players in the horn line. We were the first corps to start using various multi-pitched base drums in 1966 and we marched with tympani's in 1968.
I think you are right about RA introducing multi-pitched bass drums, but wasn't it 65? I know that the Cavies used them in 66.
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At the same time I'm professing much love for the '75 SCV drumline, I also have to give huge kudos for the '76 BD line. When I finally saw them in Boise on 1st tour with the North tenors, and the cool Air Force Academy looking blue short sleeve shirts, the look was very hip.
This is a picture someone posted of the DATR show. What a great look, and more than anything, when corps stopped playing a concert chart where it was just about letting it all hang out, that was the start of many changes that took the soul away from the individual corps. The drumline cooked, and the plates, man you guys took it to another level during concert. West IS Best, without a doubt. We would all watch just to see if their plumes would touch the ground.. VERY cool to be that limber holding 24" and 26" cymbals. Overall one of my favorite all-time shows and drumlines.
That's my picture. I wish I had taken more than I did, but it was hard to concentrate on photography while experiencing that show. It was one of the rare ones, like 65 Royal Airs and 71 SC, that changed my mind about what was possible. I was mistaken if I ID'd this as DATR. Mile high didn't have back bleachers in 76, and that's not Denver in the background. I think this is Ft. Collins. Anyway, thanks for using my picture to remember 76 BD.
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The Cotton Bowl doesn't look much like it did in 1991. The stadium was expanded to 92,000 seats with the enclosing of the upper deck among other renovations. It probably helps that Texas and OU are scheduled to play there until at least 2015.
Is this the same Cotton bowl where they held 1971 VFW Nationals or a new one?
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According to this, Whaley Royce probably introduced the french horn in the 1940's.
http://www.middlehornleader.com/Evolution%20of%20the%20Bugle%20--%20Section%203.htm
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OK I'll help get us there.
Here is a shot of the 84 Lancers snare line. These guys could play and were great kids to teach as well.
Beautiful snares. Premiers?
Our venues and stadiums
in Historical Junior Corps Discussions
Posted
I judge venues primarily by how they sound. For large stadiums, sitting between the 40 yard lines no more than 10 rows up, I would choose the Cotton Bowl in Dallas (1971) and Legion Field in Birmingham (79/80). Cessna Stadium in Wichita isn't bad either. As far as small venues, which I prefer, I liked Great Bend High School (early 70's)and Mercy High School in South Milwaukee (early 60's). In both of these venues backfield was brick school walls. Great Bend had the best low end I have ever heard.