Wanderer
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Posts posted by Wanderer
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Do I remember 2002 differently than everyone else? Am I the only one that remembers the crowd being LITTERED with Cavvies tattoos and this HUGE crowd reaction?
I was at Finals in 2002 and the Cavies box was the big event and show of the night, no question. The next was the long-haired guard girls from BD. The Fireman and pledge was over the top for most (but that's the Cadets recently).
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One rough year from the design standpoint and you're talking like that? Every single member I talked to after a meeting with Hopkins last week at Hononegah High School said that any misconceptions or hesitations about next year were completely washed away and that even though everybody was tired and sore and ready to go home and sleep in their own beds, PLENTY of members said they were already excited for next year. So shut up is what I'm trying to say.
Maybe your "agree or shut up" attitude is why you don't know the real feelings of some of the members.
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some believe he is not...ask the 135 members...my friends who marched and currently march for Mr. Hopkins think he's an amazing man...
I don't think you can speak for all 135 members. Not everyone, even the members, agree with the current direction.
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If there was a significant delay between the announcer asking the DM if he was ready and the DM's salute, it was probably a timing penalty. Back at quarters in '01, people said the announcer was asking Crown and Madison if they were ready and they weren't even on the field.
I was there and don't remember the delay. They were the first on after break and were ready to go for several minutes, so I'd be surprised if it was a time penalty. I was talking with people around us so I may have missed it.
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I know at least some get into heated arguments in critique. I'm not sure they always come out of critique understanding more than they did before about how a corps is being judged.
A lot of times the judges confuse themselves with 'super directors' by telling the corps how they should redesign their show. If the corps don't agree to make the now required changes, they can create an enemy judge that can last for years. If you have some insight to how corps are judged, the corps know the judges that like them and those that don't. So, you work the politics to make more 'friends'. The current system started off ok, but it's a ridiculous system at this point and it has nothing to do with points. There's just zero judging accountability. The fact that Cavies lost Visual GE to Phantom and Phantom lost Music GE to the Cavies shows the complete lack of accountability.
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I think Magic is a poor comparative example because as another poster said, financial security is what it takes to compete at a high level and stay there in Division 1.
DCI needs to find a way to better support the 13 - X place corps.
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They're a 13-23rd place hornline EASILY. Top 12...I'd be willing to say the bottom tier of Finalist corps.
That's a cute bias, but not reality.
So you're saying The Academy brass line would have EASILY beat Colts, Blue Stars, Crossmen and Capital Regiment would fit in somewhere with Carolina Crown, Madison Scouts, Boston Crusaders, Glassmen or Spirit from JSU?
You see, it's that kind wacko thinking that gets these Div II corps into trouble. The reality is they would have been beat by all the semi-finalist and many (like Southwind) that didn't make semi's. That said, they had a great year for a Div II corps.
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I decided to do an all day drumcorps day today and went to Div II/III Finals and what I saw simply blew me away.
The Academy is a corps on the rise folks, they have a hornline that could highly compete with any of the 8 - 12 place corps in Div I. They only lack in the visual and Percussion aspect. But man can them horns play...if you want a taste of that hornline, just buy the APD and you will see what I am talking about. I am not a musician anymore nor am I in the music ed field, but I know a good brass section when I hear one. I think Academy should dominate Div II for 2 more seasons then if the finances and the org is just right...make the jump to div I.
Way to go Academy...I am looking forward to your '07 production, what ever it is
Great job, but Div I is filled with recent Div II corps that "could highly compete with any of the 8 - 12 place corps in Div I". The recent additions of Blue Stars (14th), Capital Regiment (16th), Mandarins (17th), Seattle Cascades (19th) and Esperanza (22nd) have made the non-finalist much stronger and more entertaining, but none have performed finals night. Capital Regiment felt they'd taste finals by now but they hit a wall with a 16th place finish. Many said Blue Stars were a lock for finals, but they'll be doing well to repeat at 14th next year. It seems to get harder for these corps, not easier. I'm sure all the rest were thinking finals as well. The fact is that the top 12 (even the top 17) corps are better than you think. Southwind couldn't make semi's and their brass line was much better than The Academy's. Of course, this never stops the latest Div II champion from feeling they're finals material.
Nothing against the Academy, but my skepticism is based on historical reality.
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I agree completely. I wonder how many people would take their negative comments directly to a Cadets member face to face. I know that I disliked their show but after a few minor changes, I loved it! Congrats on pulling through all the way to the end. History wasn't repeating, but it was still excellent!
Many of the members spoke loud enough when they quit Hopkins corps after winning a championship. I feel sorry for the group that stayed. I know someone that's been with the corps several years and I wish they had the courage to speak out. I would expect more to move on next year and fewer to try out.
The sad part is what this has done to Crossmen.
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My point is simply that something that has high overall GE might not necessarily excel in one or even both of "music or visual" on its own. Hence, the thought that maybe you have two judges doing the same thing- Overall GE. As for missing what is obvious to everyone else... I'm the one who started this thread saying the final GE scores were idiotic.
I understand. I just think the problem is the judges not getting their current and obvious assigned tasks right (Cavies=V. GE & PR = M. GE). It's the people not the system. The current set of judges would screw up any system if they can't figure that much out.
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Yeah. George Hopkins is an idiot. He has no clue. I mean his corps is fourth in the world. He should be embarrassed. I mean cadets have been a real failure since he has directed them. They hardley ever win championships. Maybe only a couple of times a decade, and that show design... only saw it three times. Large stading ovation each time. What an embarassment. Lets all jump on George because we are so much more talented. Oh thats right we are sitting typing on DCP while hes directing a corps at finals RIGHT NOW!!!! Good night.
If you trust the judges, his corps is no better than 5th.
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Hmmm. This is quite curious.
He wants electronics in, of course. Anything to give the big money corps another advantage over the money-starving ones.
He wants prop folks in, so the big corps have another advantage since they can afford a traveling entourage a lot more easily than a smaller corps. I guess you could try and talk your show staff into doing it and then have the advantage of on-field coaching.
He wants to make the corps even larger, which is another advantage to the big money corps since they can more easily absorb the expenses of driving more people around. Nevermind how he wants "prop people" that won't even count under this new expanded limit, I gather.
Revisit age issues? I didn't know there were any age issues. When did those crop up?
Total effect? I thought we already had that in the "total score."
Elimination of recaps for the net? Ah, so he wants information control. DCI wants our money for season pass, APD's, DVDs, CDs, etc, but wouldn't want to share show results with us? This sounds bad for business to me.
Different method for assigning judges? Is he saying there is some impropriety there? I would love for him to expand on that.
Change to seeding? I might be able to sign on for that. As long as The Cadets are willing to go on in the middle of the afternoon at Quarterfinals, it sounds good to me. However, random corps selection sounds bad for attracting people to the Cinecast event unless they intend to put everybody on.
Training for effect judges? What training do you need? Get me. GE should be the opinion of an average fan and select them from each show's audience. Maybe even take 5 of them, give them a free show from the box, and let them write down scores. Average them out and you've got GE scores. If somebody needs training to gauge the effect of your show, then your show is not aimed at the paying audience.
Set up time extension? If you need more time to setup, you've got too much junk. Scale it back a little bit.
The cost to get to Cali? Most of his proposals would have the net effect of making it more costly to compete in the activity and then he says he is concerned about the travel costs? Give me a break.
The loss of income for corps heading west? Has he ever been concerned about corps having to come east almost every year? If he hasn't been overly concerned about that, he can take this concern and shove it.
How will it be handled? The same way it is always handled.
Task force? Judge admin? Other fun stuff? I don't know what he is getting at, so I'll wait for something definitive.
Fantastic response.
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They shouldn't care. They're judging. It isn't American Idol. They should call it the way THEY see it.
I agree, but if they can't see the obvious they need to be fired.
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I think the problem with the current system is that if you have a different one for each part, how do you judge parts of the show that are specifically designed to marry the two captions? For example, making music effects to accentuate the drill, or vice versa. That could lead to crappy music but really cool drill or really cool music but mediocre drill, even if the total effect is amazing. That's why maybe a caption for just overall effect is better, even if it is broken up to two judges.
I believe you're missing the point that "judges" either can't see or refuse to score what's already obvious to the rest of us. We don't need to change the scoring system, we just need intelligent and honest people using it.
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...Cavaliers win music GE and Regiment wins visual GE o.O
Don't think many people would argue those shoulda been switched.
It shows the arrogance in the DCI judges clique. They think if they tell us the Moon is the Sun and the Sun is the Moon, that we must accept it. No... let me take that back. They've shown they don't care what the fans or participants think. In their warped political minds everything is just as it should be.
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I have to say in all my years I have never seen a more deserving corps and show get shafted like that. There was no way they should have placed outside of the semi cut. NO WAY. I was upset enough that I went out and donated 100.00 to Southwind. They can't hang their heads, they had a heck of a show and like everybody else your left to the mercy of the judging system. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. This was a doesn't time. Good luck next year. And please do not take this as a disrespect of the Mandarins, they performed well and the judges liked them better.
DCI judging is probably the worst, most political, "competitive" environment ever seen. Southwind lost to Mandarin's on GE. Now almost everyone (but the judges) was saying how boring the Mandarin's show was, so I can only assume the GE judges didn't show up to actually watch the shows.
A worse example was in finals. Whether you like Phantom or Cavies we all can see and hear, plain as day, that the Cavies had more Visual GE, but that Phantom's brass line was better. Unfortunately the DCI scores aren't based on evidence or facts. Therefore, the Cavies Visual GE finished 3rd, but they beat Phantoms brass line by .20. It's just plain embarrassing they continue to pretend the judges are actually paying attention.
Who cares about amps or no amps when the judges are so bad? Is their any way to fire the whole embarrassing group?
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1. Cavaliers
2. Phantom Regiment
3. Blue Devils
4. Bluecoats
5. Santa Clara Vanguard
6. Cadets
7. Carolina Crown
8. Blue Knights
9. Boston Crusaders
10. Madison Scouts
11. Glassmen
12. Spirit
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Southwind got the big screw in Quarter's... who will it be tonight?
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I believe it largely depends on how the director, staff and corps handle the success. Some corps have won and remain humble and respectful, so they remain popular.
There's probably no quicker way to unpopularity in our culture than arrogant, condescending winners. That's where some directors and corps have run into problems.
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Cadets had a 92.875 Friday..... Bluecoats a 92.350 tonight.
Hmmm.... Finals week looks to be interesting!!!
Saturday judging seemed to be tougher overall than Friday's.
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Troopers carry the US Flag on the field before the show.
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I agree. I too think Southwind will be more of a challenge. But you know just as well as I do, that scores from different shows don't mean anything, so Mandarins 20th place ranking means nothing. In San Antonio and Atlanta, Mandarins beat Southwind (something I disagree with, but oh well). Bottom line, Cascades are surging, and there are now three corps battling for the 17th place spot. Gotta love close races like this!
Very close for semi's:
15 - 79.450 Blue Stars
16 - 78.700 Capital Regiment
17 - 78.600 Southwind
18 - 77.000 Seattle Cascades
19 - 75.000 Mandarins
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On second look....everyone's score shot up massively compared to last night. What gives??
The top corps are going to have less room for improvement while the mid-corps shows are just starting to kick in. Expect the scores to tighten up. Blue Stars show design may impair their ability to continue to grow this late in the year. It's going to be fun!
1 Phantom Regiment 93.40 to 93.200 - 0.200
2 Boston Crusaders 87.55 to 89.150 + 1.600
3 Blue Stars 78.20 to 79.450 + 1.250
4 Southwind 75.90 to 78.600 + 2.700
5 Seattle Cascades 74.70 to 77.000 + 2.300
6 The Magic 73.20 to 75.850 + 2.650
7 Esperanza 73.40 to 73.700 + 0.300
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Here's my thought... Go Phantom!!!
Crowd favorites 1987-2006
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
You don't go to finals do you?