G-horns
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Posts posted by G-horns
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Let's start at the beginning. Rent a trumpet NOW and get a copy of "My First Arban". Start playing every day. The Arbans don't progress in sequence from front to back, so start with the material throughout the book that's in C, then go to other keys. See if you can get a trumpet major at your school to give you some help. I wouldn't worry about not having a mellophone to practice on right now. You need to develop an embouchure again, build endurance and finger dexterity among other things. Find out what they expect at the audition and work towards that goal. Good luck.
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You can't just "swap out" Bb/F and G horns without considering the issues of intonation. I don't care what brass instrument it is or what key it is in or what quality the instrument, there are pitches that will not center properly and need to have player adjustment. This will not happen without some time spent practicing and discovering what needs to be done. So, like you said in a follow-up, it will never happen anyway.
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I'm a trumpet player and got my braces off 2 years ago. Since then, I've have the hardest time adjusting to playing normally, still to this day it is a problem. I find my mouthpiece stays over my top lip but much lower than normal and it is harder to play. The other thing is the sides of my mouth seem to slip and i hear a buzzing noise from them. It is very annoying and I want to go back to being able to play like I did with braces because this was never a problem. Using the P.E.T.E. has helped a little bit but still I would love advice. It seems high notes are harder to hit than low notes too.
Mike
Okay. First off, I never had braces so keep that in mind for the rest of this. From your description of mouthpiece position, I had the same issue when I was your age. The only way I was able to solve it was to STOP PLAYING and with the help of a private teacher, reposition the piece on my lips starting with an embouchure ring, practicing in a mirror. If you don't have a private teacher get one - even if just to fix this problem. The other thing I'll mention is a book titled "Musical Calisthenics For Brass" by Carmine Caruso. I am using this with a student who recently had braces "installed" to retrain the embouchure.
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Could be a win-win, Ray ... BU's show has always been an early start show (2-3 o'clock) ... Sky's Dinner will be later in the evening ... those that want to can pay tribute to Bobby and visit the BU show in Ridgefield Park for the early festivities and then trek onto Hasbrouck Heights for Sky's 65th Dinner Dance ...
I don't see a huge conflict for the Sky guys and gals ... last year we had a parade in the afternoon ... changed ... and then "presto", it was Happy Hour for the dinner!
Andy "I'll probably attend both ... I'm MCing the latter" Lisko
Uhhh, Andy....that parade was in the late morning. Don't tell me the pain killers were so strong you don't remember strapping on a snare for that gig!
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The leadpipe pictured above is from a Getzen - the receiver, turned from hex stock, is unique to the "baby" contra.
The valveslides look to be correct, or as close as one can expect from Old World Craftsmanship. Play through the harmonic series with all valve combinations, your results should be OK.
Most tuba-type instruments can produce "false tones", which can sometimes be useable. The Getzen had a dynamite open low A. Low G was best played with the piston only.
Having said all this, I could use a cuppla more smallshank tuba pieces myself. I have four tubas here that need 'em, and only own two mouthpieces that fit.
Ya beat me to it, buddy. The receiver of those old Getzens were all hex stock - I think the exception was the Concert Model frenchies. Care to shoot holes in that thinking?
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The mouthpiece puller will work with ALL mouthpieces, no issues whatsoever.
Unless, of course, the mouthpiece was installed with an air-hammer.
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I have a beginners group and I have found myself constantly dealing with stuck mouth pieces. I don't have the machine that removes them. Any ideas on how to remove stuck pieces? I find the "kelly's" (the kids like them)get stuck frequently (as well as the Bach's)and removing them might be a different issue. I've emailed the Kelly company, but they never responded. Any help would be appreciated. AND YES, I have reminded the kids NOT TO "BOP", but to twist in the mouth pieces. Thanks in advance. stein
As others have said, buy a puller. BUT, you need to figure out why stuck mouthpieces are constantly a problem. I'm sure you have better things to do than pull mouthpieces. Is there a taper problem with the shank? Is the player using too much pressure?
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(snip)
Someday, a top corps will win with a mix of instruments other than the standard 4 instruments, and it will change.
Maybe.
As my late father-in-law always said, "There's a correct tool for every job". One of these days some corps tool box is gonna have more than a hammer, screwdriver, pliers and flashlight. I can only hope that the next tool isn't an offset screwdriver with a reed.
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Blame the brass arrangers. They don't want 'em.
The percussion arrangers want every toy in the book. They're a grownup version of the kid who always had to have the full box of 64 crayon colors.
The brass writers were the kid who had only a tray of 4 poster paints.
And, as we both know only too well, BITD the poster paints didn't always blend well. (Meaning, there were missing notes in the chromatic series. I would love to see what some of the modern arrangers would do with THAT challenge.)
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This design was done by Marty Reese of the Santa Clara Vanguard for the reasons mentioned above. If you check out pictures of Horn players in action, you will see that the lead pipe points down. By bending the lead pipe, Marty made it so that his drum corps Horn players could use a more natural embouchure. I am playing one of these horns this year, and I must admit that (although weird), it is a much more natural playing position than tilting my head back.
Yup. Got one of those myself. Sitting in the attic now, since I'm playing sop again. I affectionately call it the "Santa Clara Kick". Chris, do you find your Kanstul frenchie a bit on the stuffy side?
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Mouser is one of our regular suppliers. I'll have to give them more business if they're offering up space for a corps.
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Skyliner Clef = CC tuba fingerings, adapted to piston/rotor
More like Dreitzer Clef, but if you want to call it Skyliner Clef I don't think anyone will argue.
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Harry,
There are as many ways to write music as there are people to read it.
Those that say all G bugle parts are in treble clef haven't seen Dreitzer's contra parts in bass clef but transposed so C on the horn is second space.
Writing for a multi-key brass ensemble is going to be a challenge if you try to do it directly to the transposed instruments. My advice is to write in the concert key (two half-steps below trumpet key) and then transpose the trumpets and middle horns. Leave the baritone and tuba parts in bass clef and don't transpose them. Get your players to read bass clef if at all possible. Only if forced into doing so should you transpose the baritone parts to treble clef. I know this sounds like I'm a bando, but get your hands on a couple marching band charts and see where the trumpet, horn, t'bone, bari and tuba parts lie. You will not build confidence in your players if they are trying to play outside the usual range of their instrument.
It will never happen, but wouldn't it be nice if all instruments read in concert key regardless of the natural key of the instrument? We wouldn't have to go through all this transposition baloney.
If you want some additional help, PM me.
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I hope the weather is good during the day. Two years ago I froze my &&& off doing the parade. Swore I'd never ever ever go back.
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Hi Larry ... that particular number was written for the PAL by John Sasso in 67 ... Hy came along the next year and penned The Exodus, Our Boys Will Shine Tonight, Carribe, Hall Of The Mountain King and Love is Blue for us ... it was a real pleasure working with, and learning from, him ...
:-)
Thanks for the correction, Andy.
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Does anyone know if Hy arranged "How Deep Is Your Love" for the Madison Scouts in 1978? I found a chart for that number while looking through my recent find. Also found "Blue Prelude" that he arranged for the New York Skyliners. This number didn't even make it through the winter season. And it's a GREAT number. GREAT muted sop trio. Man, some of the stuff he wrote that never even made the field. GEEZ!!!!
MIke,
As I'm sure you know, Hy was constantly receiving suggestions from corps members and staff. When had an idea in his head it usually ended up on paper, even if only in sketch form. They guy was brilliant when it came to getting a certain sound. Skyliners, SJP/Brassmen, CMCC and St. Iggies all sounded different, yet all the charts were penned by the same guy. The only possible "sound alike" corps I can remember is when St. Rocco's sounded like a junior version of the Skyliners. Can anyone else site a similarity?
I just remembered: Hy wrote for Bridgeport PAL - I loved his "O How I Hate To Get Up In The Morning" chart.
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Ok, all the French horn stuff is a whole new dimension that we probably dont need to visit in this thread; but for the sake of argument...
You can add to/replace the Soprano IIIs with flugel horns to add depth/warmth to the soprano parts. I'm not a fan of mixing within a section both mellos and frenchies, because it can add difficulties in tuning etc, and one person with a bad ear and...
My preference there is to go all mellos, even though they aren't as warm as the frenchies. Maybe have a good french horn soloist though, thats always awesome
If the mellos and frenchies are not playing the same notes, this lessens the tuning issue. As for mellos, depending on the make and model (and sometimes individual horn), there are intonation issues below second line G and above top space G. If you have to use all mellos, don't try to peel paint with 'em and for the lowest mello line use the deepest cup mouthpiece you can.
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G-Horns
I found this in the internet... hope it helps
http://www.mydotbook.org/product_info.html
Alden
Thanks. I was able to talk the UConn folks out of a couple pages to show the kids. BTW, the kids learned a lot in one hour and the UConn people were great to work with. But what would you expect, when the student leader running things marched mellophone with the Cadets last summer!
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ISOs
in Brass Forum
Thank you for the help! I think we nipped the problem before it became a huge issue, although I do still have 4 kids on berkeley student instruments. The trombone is built like a tank, but plays like one too. The trumpet is much like the trombone, the sax has annoying raised parts that make it hard to use palm keys, and the flute is just plain hard to play.Again, thanks for your time!
Hey, my pleasure.
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I tried to narrow it down...but I cannot. My answer is ALL OF THEM. His scoring was unique, and the keys he picked were out of the ordinary C, F, or G. Some tunes were written in Eb or even Ab. And the voicing was nobody else. I used to try to figure out his arranging style.
Donny
Donny,
I wish there was a repository for ALL of Hy's charts - even the klunkers. It would be a great resource for anyone interested in marching music. Hy didn't write for bands, but I'm willing to bet that he would have been good at it. As you so aptly posted, his key selection and voicing were phenomenal. The guy had a brilliant imagination and knew how to get what he wanted onto paper to share with us. And God help the show-off that tried to "embellish" his charts. I can still hear him tearing a certain lead sop player a new one for adding some extra stuff to a final chord.
Funny how nobody has mentioned CMCC Warrior's "Voodoo Suite", with all the bird calls at the beginning and another opener he did for CMCC, that I can't remember the title of, where he successfully imitated a Moog with the sopranos during the intro. And then there's Brassmen's "Sorcerer's Apprentice". There's just too much music...
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That would be a surprise ... I was pretty sure that Hy wrote both charts and that some of our guys saw both charts in his briefcase ... maybe LarryG can comment ... wouldn't be the first time I was wrong!!!!
:-)
Andy, I only saw the Skyliners Aquarius chart.
For the group: Hy wrote for a lot of corps, including the little known Enfield Sabers in 1969 thru 1971. I have the original charts for lots of the stuff, including a masterful "God Of Our Fathers" that modulates from C to Eb, a great "If My Friends Could See Me Now" chart with french horn lick at the end and even a chart he originally was doing for Velvet Knights that ended up in our rep one year. I only wish I had "Tropical Merengue" (sp?), 'cuz it proves that he could and did arrange latin music.
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A little insight on why it disappeared....
Never played the King FH bugle, but did play the mid-'80s marching band counterpart....vastly superior slotting, intonation, tone and volume.
I think Renegades are still using King frenchies and I think there's one at Sky Alumni. I have to agree about those 2V DEGs. So bad, I gave it back and bought a 3V Kanstul. Right now it's sitting in the attic 'cuz I went back to playing lead soprano.
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Flugels, various forms of alto horns, french horns, and soon ........
....... saxophones.
Touche!
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Anyone interested, I have 2 DEG French horns for sale. I have 3 valve and a 2 valve, both are in excellent condition. If you are interested email me at ddesio5@optonline.net. I will send you pictures and prices...
No interest here. heh.
How many think Cadets 2 will be the death of other corps
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
Posted
You make some valid arguments regarding HS and college band commitments. But I'll venture that YEA, through it's USSBA organization, will bring this issue to the directors and make some sort of "we're here to help you" magic that will smooth it over.