kmansdrummin
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Posts posted by kmansdrummin
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Great question. I'm looking for the 12 lug model. I was able to get a few from e-bay yesterday, but am still looking for more.
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I'm looking for any used 14 inch Ludwig Challenger Snare Drums. Our Drumline (Pacific Alliance, Seattle WA is in the process of reconditioning them for use. They have a great deep sound when used with the Ludwig Silverdot Top Head.
We are also looking for the 14 inch Ludwig Challenger Snare Drum Hoops. 4 top rims, and 2 bottom rims.
Any input would be helpful.
Thanks, Kevin
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You can name a drum solo by the Corps and the year by hearing it, or you could say the name and Corps and sing it.
Santa Clara, "Young Person's Guide" 1974, 81, "The Clock" 1975, "Birds of Fire" 1975, "Lezginka" 1978, 79, 87.
Blue Devils, "Channel One Suite" 1976,77 78, 86, "Paradox" 1982, 83.
Bridgemen, "Black Market Juggler", 1982, 83.
Now there are snippets. Four measures for snares, then tenors, then basses. All interchangeable, and the movement is becoming more important than the notes.
The Blue Devils are now famous for their warm-up "Diddy" (Which is really cool.)
Not a slam at the kids, but more of a way to say I'm disappointed in the staffs and the current trend.
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The good thing is that it's still done today! A few years back, I was driving for Spokane Thunder, a DIV III Corps at the time. While in Oregon (forget which city), we were staying in the Jr. High which was just across the street from SCV who where at the High School. After the show, one of our buses wouldn't start. SCV was loading to go when I decided to ask them (with the O.K. from Thunders Director) if they could take the kids from the broken down bus back to the school. Jeff Pearson was the director at the time and he didn't hesitate to say yes to helping us get the kids back. (I didn't doubt that he would say anything different).
What was so cool was that when we arrived back at the school, I got to watch the kids who rode with SCV get off their buses, I swear that they were walking about 3 feet off the ground with the biggest smiles I've ever seen. They just couldn't believe that they had actually been in the midst of a Div I Corps and that that Corps was SCV to BOOT! They mentioned how nice all of the kids were to them. Not snooty at all. They also said that it was something they would remember forever... Needless to say, I went to bed with a big smile on my face. Thanks SCV...
Great story!! I bet it also gave some of them a spark and the desire to work harder. Great for them to see that those people in this great corps are "real people" too!
Maggie, another story. After aging out, I went to check out a Seattle Imperials practice. The late Paul Seibert (SCV snare legend) was there, and asked if I wanted to look at the score of their new drum solo, "Tambo". He looked at it with me, and I thought, "wow, He's talking to me...).He was alway's so nice (I was a multi-tenor in the Seattle Imperals and saw him work the snares in the winter of 76-77). He knew how to teach, yet was very nice. The everyman who had extraordinary talent.
I also talked to Freddy (center snare in 2004). He was very nice, and let me check out his drum. He handed me his sticks and said, "go ahead and play on it". I played some stuff. (I think he was suprised I could still play.) But I was impressed with his, and the other drummers demeanor.
Santa Clara has alway's been about class!!
(Don't mean to hi-jack the thread...)
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Drum Solos you could recognize years later.
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Thinking of ways to keep your snare drum from moving while marching (stiff leg, etc), marking time (stiff leg up and down, toes up and down).
The Closer was the "Off the Field".
More corps were called by their cities, "Concord", "Garfield", "Anaheim", "Etobicoke", etc.
Shaving necks and tucking hair under the Shako for inspection.
Marching Bands looking down on you because you were in Drum Corps, and us taking offense, so we'd "pump up" the drum parts.
Warming up with other drumlines.
Sharing busses if another corps bus broke down. (In the Titans in '74, we toured with the Portland Hawks, and we rode together for a while while one of their busses was being fixed.)
Corps were full of "Local Kids".
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Great for you, and I mean that. However, let me ask you four question:
1) How many middle and high schools in 1972 trained musicians to the same high standards of those in 2011?
2) Are you aware that this training system of which you speak is being approached today in the organizations of SDCA, the lower level of DCI Open Class, and planned for within DCNA?
3) Are you implying that each and every DCI World Class corps should have performers side by side ranging from "I have never played music in my life" to "I am a conservatory trained ready for professional career"?
4) How can the drum corps training system you went through in 1972 be conducive to the DCI World Class "Major League" atmosphere in 2011 where Boston Crusaders, Blue Knights, Glassmen, Crown, Bluecoats, etc... are competing at such high levels that they can only take in youth musicians who are already well-trained?
Stu,
I'll answer to the best of my ability/knowledge,
1) Even back then, I don't think that any DCI Level (World Class) corps wouldn't train somebody on the spot. You would have to be in the Cadet Corps, or a "Feeder Corps".
2) I didn't know that. Maybe there could also be a circut that would be less pit, amps, and other junk. Like Body Building, the new circut could be like "natural bodybuilding" (no steroids), and rely on the on field percussion voices, with little pit. It is nice there are other organizations of which to grow in.
3) I guess I'm a dinosaur in that regard. And can you tell me how many drum corps marching members go on to become ready for a "professional Career" in their chosen instrument?
4) Well, in 1972, I was trained to play cymbals. I spent time in the Seattle Imperials in the winter line from 76 to 77 and learned a lot. At that time, I could've played anywhere in the country. Back in the day, the corps had kids from the city/town of which they were from. Now, there are very, very many kids trying out for spots from all over the country. (And less corps from which to go.) One of my friends is an original Blue Coat, and he was a snare drummer. He went to see them in Boise in 2007, (or 08), but they treated him like royalty. The drumline asked him questions, and the drum instructor asked if he had questions as well. He asked. "How many people in this line are from Ohio?". The answer, 2.
So funding from the town may not make sense.
And since the activity has changed so much, from all the extras in the pit, to the philosophy of Movement being more important than the Music, (don't get me wrong, those kids work very, very hard. It's the staff who get's me worked up.) and the Kids have to be more athletes than ever. Although I would love to hear different sounding drum solos.
But, IMO, Cymbals should be part of the marching experience. If not, then why have musicians at all on the field. They all could be condensed in the pit with mikes, and the field could be all a Play/Production, etc.
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MelloHorn13, THANK YOU!!
When I joined a Drum Corps back in 1972, I didn't know how to play an instrument. I tried unsuccessfully to play a horn, and ended up in the Cymbal Line. After lots of hard work, great instructors and some talent, worked my way through the drumline. And thanks to a financial settlement from my late Uncle, I was able to get new drums for the Pacific Alliance Drumline. (Who needs a classic car anyway?)
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Good post.
My favorite 5 (ok, 6);
Santa Clara 74, 75, 79. (All very difficult, yet musical. And in 75, the ending of Birds of Fire, playing a very very hard ending with the drum judge in front, playing it perfectly and the judge walking away.)
Etobicoke 77. (Tough and perfect. A machine.)
Blue Devils 82, 83. (Great playing, GE, and excellent accelerandos.)
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True, and these are indeed great moments. But it's too bad that 1977 Oakland Crusaders couldn't have gotten a mention here. I think I know one reason why; there's no video to capture the moment. But being the only corps in DCI history, that I'm aware of, to win a caption in DCI prelims, but not win the caption award because the corps didn't make finals, seems worthy of at least an honourable mention.
As others have noted, I don't dispute Mike's choices at all. But it seems like this moment is one that's always getting shuffled under the rug. I wonder if DCI would prefer that everyone forget it even happened.
Yes!! I saw you in prelims in 77, and was floored!!
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Anything that is named in an esoteric manner, makes my go to the dictionary but still leaves me confused, or has no real meaning conveyed through the music and drill. Pretty much 90% of all show titles from Y2k to the present!
WINNER!!!
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1. Santa Clara '75
2. Santa Clara '74
3. Blue Devils '76
4. Kingsmen '74
5. Blue Devils '75
6. Bridgemen '77
7. Santa Clara '89
8. Blue Devils '86
9. Velvet Knights '87
10. Santa Clara '04
11. Phantom '05
12. Cavies '04
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Actually, I was impressed that the Cavies had the guts to go to Mylar. I was wondering what that wonderful sound was during that time in the show, and lo and behold, Mylar!! A snare drum that sounded like a damm snare drum!!
(But then, you can get a real snare drum in the pit. Weak IMO.)
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QUOTE (sarnia sam @ Nov 7 2010, 06:52 PM)
The key words from Hopkins are: Can we figure out how to be relevant again...
I have read the posts on this thread and arguments about the touring model, judging, etc, that are totally missing the point.
what the ^&%$ is the product?
Obviously, it's one most people aren't buying.
AND, it all hinges on the music, not the drill or choreogrpahy or what ever it's being called at the moment. Yes the drill is pretty, and yes it looks very hard to do, but if people can't follow the music, they punch another button.
It's very simple.
Last night I was at the reunion of my corps. A stage band was created four years ago populated mostly by vets of the corps and a few from other corps. They played arrangments of tunes from one of the parent corps from the 70s, and arrangements from the other from the late 60s and early 70s - and one tune from the era I marched in. (note to Ron Allard - only Ontario from the 71 show got left out).
My girlfriend, with no exposure to drum corps of any kind until I met her, turned to me and said - this really does send a chill up the spine.
No drill, no uniforms, no football field.
It happened to me too. Fantastic arrangements (by Steve Bailey) made it a night to remember.
This same person (my girlfriend) has been a work in progress to get her tuned into some of what my life has been. She doesn't get DCI of the modern era, not at all, She somewhat gets the 70s and 80s because she can follow the music (I think she's just lacking the live exposure). She really liked the corps at Rochester because for the most part thay played complete tunes - not snippets. By the way, she's an artist and a museum designer whose work you've likely seen; she gets sophpisticated very well.
But she loved the, to quote a previous poster, bad ### arrangements of the stuff she heard last night.
When I started corps in 1970 there were lots of peripheral fans who had no direct involvement. They just went to shows and got entertained. Today they get bored real quick and I can't get them to reconsider another shot at the experience.
It took talent to play Legend of the One Eyed Sailor or any other tune you want to pick from back in the day, and I can count the music majors I marched with on one hand - but it took a lot more talent to make an arrangement that scored well and entertained the schlubs who don't know a blown attack from an off-key note. Us schmucks put out a quality product with quality arrangements.
Today, we have better quality musicianship but much poorer arrangements that do not please the majority of people.
Start putting out a quality, entertaining product musically and things will turn around.
So, what does that mean? Abandon classical? Not on your life. Drum corps, specifically Vanguard and Regiment turned me onto classical music. Thanks to Devils and Del I like jazz. Sorry, no corps did a thing for imputing an appreciation of country music in this boy's life, but I hope you get my point.
Tone down the artistry? No. Does anyone think there is no artistry involved in replicating MacArthur Park as Madison did? If you think not, then there's isn't much to discuss.
Change the sheets? Qualified yes. Put more emphaisis on performance and less on design and that will add grease to the wheel. Take back some points to the music from drill too. Continue to be creative drill people, and show me how you can wow me within the context of a whole song. What you collectively do now, while on the technical side is creative, taken as a whole its disconnected and as choppy as the music is.
Dilute the competition. Are you crazy? We live in the most competitive society in the history of the world. As a marching member, I and my buddies lived for the scores each night. Why because they reflected what we did, not what someone did in a study room in February. If our score went up, it meant we played better, not wrote better. If you want to kill any hope of maintaining a steady recruiting base, take out the competitive aspect.
As to the avant guard stuff, small doses keep the variety quotient up, but two hours worth, no thanks. Even ten minutes is too much.
Oh, and people back in the day really love drum solos. Average people. Today every drum break sounds like the last and it's gone in the blink of an eye. When did drum solos become the ######## child of DRUM CORPS?
I'd like to add that I like a lot of the arrangments being done today. My tastes run to a more sophisticated atmosphere, but I don't have my head so far up my butt to think everyone will get off on it as much as I do.
Regards,
John
Fabulous post, John, There's just not a lot I can add to that, except that my hubby is much the same as your girlfriend. How I wish we could hop in a time machine and go back to 1980. I keep hoping that Madison will bring that sound back so that he can really hear what I have heard. This past season was a start.
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Sue Templeton Deschene
Oakland Crusaders colour guard, 1978 to 1980
"Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans." John Lennon
kmansdrummin
View Member Profile Add as Friend Send Message Find Member's Topics Find Member's Posts Today, 04:49 PM Post #282
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QUOTE (byline @ Nov 8 2010, 04:00 PM)
Fabulous post, John, There's just not a lot I can add to that, except that my hubby is much the same as your girlfriend. How I wish we could hop in a time machine and go back to 1980. I keep hoping that Madison will bring that sound back so that he can really hear what I have heard. This past season was a start.
Since I didn't read the whole post. all I can say is ####!!!!! You nailed it!!!!!!
And I also showed my Girlfriend my performance in the Kingsmen Alumni Corps and she loved it. (Not just because I was in it.)
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I think people would like to have music, or a production that would have them tapping their foot instead of scratching their head. I liked the kind of programs I could understand, and loved the ones that made me think "Wow!! How did they DO that!!" (SCV 1974 Young Person's Guide), instead of "Why in the hell did they do that??" (Cadets 2005 drumspeak) which I as a drummer found appalling.
It's like "I understand it, who cares if the average person doesn't. He/She just doesn't know...". Total disregard for the audience. That's what this is about, putting seats in the seats.
I feel the need for all the amps, narration, and everything in the pit, is the fact that there were no more ideas/creativity with what was already there. Change for the sake of change isn't alway's a good thing. (Be careful what you wish for...)
Unfortunately there are people who need to prove a point with narration or electronics at the expense of the kids. (Cadets in past years.) The narration took away from an otherwise great performance, especially in 08 (cadets).
I know saying this I will be perceived as a dinosaur, and may be shot down, but if everything that's being done has been successful, then why is this thread going on? People won't buy a product they don't like.
I went to Quarterfinals and took someone who is new to Drum Corps. She loved the Cavies and Bluecoats, but thought the others were OK. She made simple observations like how the whole corps were together, (uniforms and such).
It would be nice if some people would keep it simple, instead of trying to "Wow" the public with something they don't understand.
And try to keep the balance between Music and Movement. There's a lot of fast movement with a mishmash of notes. Bring back substance with the style. And as a drummer, I would love to see some of the really cool stuff played in the parking lot on the field instead of everybody playing the same thing while they are moving around for a drum break.
Just my two cents. And thank goodness for these discussions. It would be far worse if a lot of people quit caring.
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If there is ever a day that SCV gets rid of their plate line there will be a riot on hand.
SCV has made their plate line iconic....you look for them....they are very well-integrated into the show. I think other corps, top corps particularly since it is mostly top corps lacking plate lines, could do the same if they tried.
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Live it was amazing!! The bottom end mylar heads matched the visual concept flawlessly and live they weren't masked at all.
It's great to hear how they cut through. It seems like the Newer Heads are trying to sound like the old Mylar heads, but they lack timbre, and are still very choked. Just hearing how rich and full the Mylar Heads were made me very happy. Think anyone will have the patience and guts to try Mylar full time again? (Yes, it's high maintenance, but well, well worth it.)
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Ditto what he said!!!
Thanks Vic. Hey, do you know Bob Rohrbaugh? He's a friend of mine up here (fellow snare drummer) and he was an Original Bluecoat, aging out in 1978.
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A big thank you to the Cavaliers for switching their Snares in the middle of the show.
I thought I heard something great, and low and behold, the snares looked smaller, but sounded fantastic! I thought it was Mylar Drum Heads, and upon having this sent to me from a friend, YouTube confirms it. (Sorry I couldn't put it on., but it's there.)
That alone for me was worth the price of admission (I saw the Quarterfinals at a Theater). Also, the Cavies and Bluecoats shows were my favorite. And a lot of respect to all the kids for all the work they did.
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Calling this the "Top 7" is like College Football having a "BCS National Champion". It is not based on fact, just some people's opinion.
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Ahh, when marching drums sounded like marching drums. Great Tympani work too!!
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The Pacific Alliance Drumline is looking for new members. We have needs in our Multi-Tenor, Bass, and Cymbal lines. Great Chops (for some instruments), Timing, and/or Drum Corps experience required. Please see link http://pacall.net/, go to the join/contact us portion and let us know. Our next practice is on Sunday, June 6th from 11 to 2 at Tyee High School. Be part of the best Drumline around! We are based out of Seattle, Wa., so this is for folks in the Northwest. However, our Members range from Idaho to Southern California.
Here's a clip;
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The Pacific Alliance Drumline is looking for new members. We have needs in our Multi-Tenor, Bass, and Cymbal lines. Great Chops (for some instruments), Timing, and/or Drum Corps experience required. Please see link http://pacall.net/, go to the join/contact us portion and let us know. Our next practice is on Sunday, June 6th from 11 to 2 at Tyee High School. Be part of the best Drumline around! We are based out of Seattle, Wa., so this is for folks in the Northwest. However, our Members range from Idaho to Southern California.
Here's a clip;
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Were that the case, don't you think DCI would have done that? Do you really think they left money on the table? Or is it rather that the votes and attendance indicated a clear preference for more recent shows, so the Countdown was adjusted in accord with the market?
HH
I really don't know. As far as what DCI thinks is anybody's guess. As far as leaving money on the table, maybe this countdown will say something. Maybe the new age outs have more disposable income than the dinosaurs, so more money will come in with more young people. I thought in the beginning when there was a little bit of everything was perfect. That way there were more people of all ages. For DCI's sake, I hope this works out.
"Ain't that a kick in the head" arrangement
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
Posted
Looking for an arrangement of Dean Martin's "Ain't that a kick in the head". Digitized is a big plus. Any suggestions??