Penn State
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Through my graduate work, I have been exploring Stan Kenton's mellophonium band ('60-'63) and the influence this ensemble along with Johnny Richards compositions had on the use of the middle voice in the drum and bugle corps brass literature. As I have been digging through a great deal of literature, thanks to Scooter over at The Middle Voice Leader, I discovered the inactive Suncoast Sound's show was based off Johnny Richard's composition and special arrangement for Kenton, "Adventures In Time".
The question I am hoping some of our hard core corps fans will be able to answer....did any other drum and bugle corps adapt charts from the Kenton band either before the mellophonium section was introduced or directly from the mellophonium era? Any information will certainly help me find potential new sources to pursue.
Thank you!!!
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Hi All!
I hope everyone is doing well! I wanted to pick the brains of those who have had the opportunity to play on both the Yamaha and Jupiter Quantum marching baritones. I have played the Yamaha extensively. What should I expect from the Quantum horn?
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If you're in the market for a professional trumpet, 'professional' mellophone, or a solid practice mellophone check these outs. Prices are somewhat negotiable.
King Trumpet, $300.00 plus shipping.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10106167582177764.1073741829.9375044&type=1&l=4700985675
Yamaha Mellophone, $800.00 plus shipping.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10106167571768624.1073741828.9375044&type=1&l=721ddfe5ed
King Mellophone, asking $50.00 plus shipping.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10106167558674864.1073741827.9375044&type=1&l=eee5181f4d -
The last DCI show I attended, Hoppy's show in Allentown in 2012, what I recall the audience demographic was of an older age. it would be interested to do a research study on some of the bigger DCI shows. It would not surprise me if the majority of the demographics are middle aged and older....
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George is also responsible for the current storm heading up the eastern seaboard. I thought he would have learned his lesson about that debacle with the Great Chicago Fire.
lmao!!! True George is not the cause of all the changes we have seen. However, he certainly has, whether intentional or not, has positioned himself as the face of change in DCI.
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Bridgemen already used a sousaphone and a clarinet...in 08 at Allentown.
and got flagged by a 'ref'! LOVE it!!!
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Yes, turning around the Bb horns and selling them as "Pre-Owned" has been a source of revenue for corps. They do not lose money, they make money. The manufacturers get more of their products into the field. True, there is the one time large capital investment up front, but it's better to put them into a resell-able product than to the G's which did not have the market to be resold. Not all corps turn around the full hornline each year obviously but it's one major part of the switch to Bb that people will continue to ignore. You couldn't sell the G's to scholastic or college programs. The switch to Bb horns has helped sustain the activity.
The same holds true for the percussion equipment although the front ensemble is typically on a two year resale cycle. As a director of an indoor drumline, selling our discounted equipment every two years has been a substantial continual source of revenue. It also allows our kids to play on the best equipment.
I just sent you a pm.
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I think we've been over this, but most drum corps don't really lose money on the horns they are buying at wholesale and turning around at the end of the season for slightly under. You'd have to look at their books to verify, but this was my understanding when I was working at Yamaha.
I was referring to ALL equipment not just instruments.
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To paraphrase William Revelli, the worst thing the DCI Rules Congress could do would be to have another meeting.
Are you referring to the late William Revelli, former director of the Michigan Marching Band?
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Ah, the typical configuration would have been 4 mellos, 8 frenches -> then it was 6 mellos, 6 frenchies -> to what you describe above. Interesting... They pulled off that sound with 4 french horns...
What I'd like to hear is a mix of:
1st Trumpet
2nd Cornet
3rd Flugel
1st Mello
1st/2nd Alto horn
2nd/ 3rd Frenchie
1st Trombonium
1st /2nd Bari
2nd/ 3rd Euph
Tuba
I'd have to think about the exact numbers breakdown in each voice to fill out an 80+ hornline...
I think it would be a very nice sound that would be different than what is heard on the field today, but not super "out there". Now with this rules change,
I guess you'd plug in trombone and french horn, but I doubt any corps would add the cornet or alto horns into the mix.
It would look kinda bizarre too...
Very much would like to see your number breakdown for this voicing :)
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...and a french horn "bugle" just wont do. It wouldn't actually BE a french horn like the symphyony orchestra uses, it was just sound like one and fit into the already established horns...
We don't want to use what we have, we need to covet what we don't have...
Didn't crown already do a show on this...something like....the grass is always greener....?
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Speaking from professional experience (I work at an agency with a market research arm), it's disgustingly expensive to get something truly accurate and worthwhile, especially in the "niche" zone.
Here's a question for the class:
How do you lower the cost of the activity - tuition, operating costs, or ticket prices - in any discernible way without taking away from the quality?
Stop buying brand new equipment every season....
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This thread is getting all Bando. Very appropriate in anticipation of the first Bando Summer Music Games in 2014.
lmao....you sleigh me HockeyDad!!! Really, I found this to be very funny :)
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Most likely, had such a study been undertaken and even a preponderance of the evidence taken from the study had supported their position, they would have cited the study.
As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, most (if not all) of the previous changes like this one have only cited as the reason, "It's about the kids." "It will grow the activity" What would lead anyone to believe anything is different this time around? Did they not allude to just that in the podcast?
Others suggest that despite the "it's about the kids" argument, the preponderance of evidence from the other changes appear to indicate that it's actually about the designers and arrangers.
From an anecdotal perspective Daave, I think you're spot on!
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I'll give this 1 shot although its been beat to death for years...........................just a question..............you are assuming that MOST, MANY ...ALL dont like the new product? as far as lowering prices..thats cool,,,lets get stadiums to lower it also..then busses, schools for corps to stay in..reharsal facilities .etc etc..thats would be great
A properly done research study will help show what the niche market is willing to pay for and how much. The powers to be are making decisions based on their only personal needs and feelings. Only research can show us what the niche market wants and is willing to pay for.
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I'm totally telling you that learning a sub-instrument that is very much related to your major instrument isn't as detrimental as you make it sound, and is something that many music majors must do.
It's something that many music professionals must do. Versatility and flexibility are important skills to have. Musically, playing a different instrument was one of the great lessons that corps provided in the summer. Playing the same 10 minutes of music over and over isn't really music education. That's probably what's going to tee off college professors...
You picked exactly the on instrument that I thought you would pick to respond with... French horn and mellophone ( and alto horns for that matter) require different embouchures that I'm sure Jeff Nelson wouldn't be too keen on. I believe that trumpet players would be more suited to play mellophone ( and flugel and alto horns) than french horn players playing mellophone, even if they use a french horn mouth piece. It's probably better if they would just play a marching french horn, like the did way back in the day, but Cadets, then Star made mellophones popular in DCI in the 80s.
Jeff Nelsen is probably not too keen on any french horn player playing mellophone. So, I'd imagine that he's not into marching band... So I'd kinda bet that he wouldn't care about versatility.
That's not the same scenario for the other instruments, I mentioned though.
Thanks to the great research of brass historian, Gregg Monks, I learned the mellophone was once used by jazz trumpet players bitd the way the flugel horn is used today.
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There is no official word yet on the vote, so let's have 44 pages of speculiation.
It happens all the time in the sports world....why not in 'marching music's major league'???
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I've held all along the drum corps is and has always been a form of marching band - from its inception to now. I don't know if it's shame or something else that riles people up when they hear the two likened (especially by the unenlightened masses), but it's pretty tired and played out in my book. Drum corps is drum corps because of the experience and the people, not the key or number of valves of the horns they're holding.
Besides, the percussive instrumentation is the same between marching band and drum corps - why don't we get mad about that?! :P
the bell front bugles and marching brass were developed because of the AL VFW days of the activity. The visual look of the ensemble was initiated by the activity as they wanted all voicing to resemble the bugle. All modern marching bugles and brass is based on Zig Kanstul's designs. It would be fascinating to hear his take on this...
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The key to getting a person interested in anything is to MARKET to them. MARKETING is the major thing that gets people interested in something. Marketing is probably the major problem with Drum Corps.
and knowing what your niche market is willing to pay for and how much.
In my educated opinion, I feel lower ticket prices would have drawn larger crowds to a drum corps show over adding electronics and other 'toys'.
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No, they spent countless, thankless, low-paid hours promoting the activity to anyone that would listen. They tirelessly did whatever they could to keep some poorly-run organizations afloat, worked in the interests of the member corps (which they are responsible for helping succeed), and tried to staunch the effects of the decline in interest and priority on music education over the years had on the activity.
More than anything, I'm tired of the tinfoil hat crowd trying to accuse DCI of padding coffers and sitting in an ivory tower, making decisions in their personal interests rather than the interests of the activity. Here's what I know about DCI as an organization, and of most of the staff and administration of member corps: they care about the experience of the marching members, and that includes the growth and sustainability of the activity so that countless students can continue to participate. The put in long hours for very little (or NO) money because they love drum corps, they love music education and they want to see it succeed.
If you care about young people, music and this activity, you'll get off the high horse and support it as it grows and changes - something it has done and will continue to do for the duration of its existence. Drum corps is a living, breathing entity. It's not a historical record - we have DVDs for that. I recommend you buy them and support DCI and the growth of the activity so that others may enjoy it in the future.
Going on the assumption that all of this is true...
Why hasn't DCI commissioned a marketing study to properly identify their niche market and the demographics of the market? Even though it is 'non-profit' drum corps is still a business driven by the fans buying power. If the fans do not feel the price is worth the experience, they won't spend their disposable income on it.
If ill-informed decisions are made that alienate your niche market, they will stop buying the product. When they stop buying the product, there will be no money to produce the product.
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Interesting point about Gail Royer's feelings concerning instrumentation changes...after all, he was also a band director I believe? Perhaps the "current" change defenders feel his dino ways of thinking aren't relevant anyway? I would love to see a vote by the founding fathers today on this rule. It seems to me that the real argument comes down to a fairly clear line. Either you think that drum corps being more and more like marching band is ok, or you don't. It would seem the artists in charge have no issue deciding. I wonder sometimes if they have trouble distinguishing one from the other.
I second that. i wish we could here Cos speak on the matter :(
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You sound like a political pundit... geez! The way your discussing this is just excruciating to read. Facts without any context what so ever like DCI and corps are in this little bubble and that the only thing that effects corps is DCI. when you say "we have lost more fans, more annual marchers, more corps, under DCI's watch than any other time of history" it's incredibly misleading as it infers causation where there is really only correlation. And lets be honest, when you discuss things in that way, you aren't really having a discussion...
Nice job Charlie! Calling out Brasso for not supporting his statements with any cited research....that sounds familiar???
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New " evolution " definition of a " Drum Corps " : a musical unit whose members do running around and that tour in busses ".
I do not know if this should make me laugh or cry :'(
Stan Kenton, Johnny Richards, and the mellophonium
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Some great information right here! I was just thinking about this. Corpreps has all West Side Story charts attributed to Bernstein and of course I was wondering if any of the corps utilized Richards arrangements. This is really cool, will keep pushing forward to find more information!