Just A Plain Old Fan
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Posts posted by Just A Plain Old Fan
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Thank you for posting. This made me very happy. And on my birthday too. :-)
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I'm going to try to provide clarity here, although it seems like everyone is firmly ensconced in their position so I don't really know what good it will do:
There is absolutely a standing policy in the activity that corps members are required by their corps to disclose their marching history and if they owe any money to another corps. All the directors (remember the corps, represented by their directors ARE DCI) agreed on this policy. And it makes a ton of sense to prevent people from corps-hopping and leaving a trail of debt throughout the activity.
In addition, as you see from the screenshot, corps will take the extra step to make sure the members are "clear" with their old corps. If a previous corps invokes the debt, the current corps will usually request a contract to verify. DCI has been known to intervene if necessary, always with the intent to let the kid march if at all possible.
Although you may question me as a source, those facts are 100% true.
Where we're getting off base here is the discussion around whether a scholarship "counts" as a debt. Everyone's kind of right here. Traditionally, it wouldn't. However, Garfield is an astute businessman and is 100% correct that here we're dealing with a case of buyer beware. If the contract or scholarship or scholarship/membership/contract states that the scholarship would turn into a debt, and the member and/or his or her parents signed the document, then it would most likely (technically) fall under the same category as the DCI rule I mentioned above.
I also imagine the Crown organization would never send an email referencing a contract that didn't CLEARLY state what they were inferring. That would be incredibly irresponsible and immediately blow up in their face.
Garfield is also correct that it's entirely possible the stipulations around a donor gift could require all this.
I don't see where BAC is in the wrong here. You could argue that they shouldn't have hired Crown staff or recruited Crown members, but that's only slightly germane. Even if there is NO shadiness on BAC's part here, this situation would still present itself with them or any other corps that these "scholarship" recipients move to. It's clear (as clear as I think it can be) that Crown made a direct choice to make this penalty part of their program offering. If there's polite debate to be had, I think it's there.
I personally don't think that is in the spirit of the original agreement between the directors and is unnecessarily punitive, but I get it. And they have a right to make their own choices. And people should read contracts before they sign them.
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You know, this is the kind of stuff that used to really **** me off BITD. You have a bunch of CEOs having a "bugle" size contest and in the end, the only thing that loses or suffers is the activity (or the fans).
Sigh.
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What a great topic/question.
I've thought about this a lot. My $.02 below.
Similar to some of the other responses, I think one of the core values to the drum corps experience is learning that you can push yourself harder than you ever thought you could. And I think that falls under the category of a "life lesson." A really important one. I know any time I look at an existing or upcoming challenge in my life, I think to myself--this can't be as hard as **** from drum corps.
Here's how I see that happening in a unique way for this activity: the competitive aspect puts a weight (you can call it artificial or not) on every choice you make, and every action over the course of a summer. And for most "kids," up until the summer they march, they've never had so much weight put on their actions. So even though it's just marching band, it feels (and IS) SO important. You learn what it feels like to succeed and to fail with (artificially) incredibly high stakes. It feels like life or death, but it's really just band. Which is good, because you can fail, but with a safety net. And if you take a kid who doesn't march corps, most of them won't be put in a situation that feels like the stakes are that high until at least their mid twenties, if not even later than that.
Basically, it gives you a chance to test/prove your mettle in a safe environment, and that helps kids grow up.
I dunno--it made more sense in my head.
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I got a little déjà vu of RAMD.
Lol. I wonder how many current active users know what that is.
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Ghost if you want it "straight", here goes. The 2016 Boston Crusaders don't owe you a thing. The members, staff, support staff, and management (inc the BOD) of BAC couldn't give a rats azz about what you know, what you think you know, or how much your experience in the corps 50 years ago entitles you to second guess anyone. Like many supporters of this drum corps, I am positive for the sake of the members and the folks in the trenches making it happen. I have been so since move in, but at no time did I promise or even predict a final placement, because ultimately, that is also partially dependent on how strong the other teams are.
There are many of us connected with the corps who just as soon see you take up golf. No, I would not suggest that you follow another corps, because I would hate to see you "haunting" anyone else either. And by the way Ghost, why don't you just come out and tell everyone your name instead of being a keyboard commando. The REAL Boston Crusaders perform in public, for all to see.
Sincerely,
Craig Scott
South Portland, Maine
Ditto
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I've posted very few comments, but I've read every post on DCP for 12 years. My name is Neil Van Natta. I'm a Cavalier. I marched 97-01. I was horn sgt. with my friend in 2000-2001. I love drum corps. It's one of the few things I care about. This guy beating this stadium guy up is one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen in drum corps.
Your sentiment is not wrong, however there is a longer clip out there that shows stadium guy throwing the first punch/elbow. Not making excuses--just saying what you saw isn't the whole picture.
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This post was enough to take me out of early retirement.
To answer the OP's question:
Although the position title is the same, I imagine almost every corps has a slightly different policy regarding alternates. If you sift through the thread, you'll see some explanation of how it's handled with some groups, but it's complicated.
In my opinion, the important thing for any corps-student relationship is that the expectations are clear up front. While it may seem unfair on the outside, it's absolutely possible that the young man was placed on alternate status without a guarantee of a full position. It's not always clear or intended that the alternate is next in line, and in fact often a corps would rather have a veteran member brought in to fill the blank over a rookie, regardless of talent level. Lots of variables to unpack, and each situation is unique. Ideally, corps have alternates that are just as good as the people in the line, but more often than not, they are one or two steps away from really deserving that spot.
Where it gets ugly is if there's a bait and switch going on. It probably feels that way to either the alternate or alternate's parent(s), but it *may* not actually be the case. The Cavaliers are a well respected organization. I'd be willing to bet they were clear when they offered the contract/alternate status. I'm sure it feels icky, but a) it probably isn't and b) there's still a chance this young man may be able to get a performing spot before the end of the season.
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This was awesome, and reminds me of what I like about drum corps, and why people still go see it live.
Please don't pee in my cheerios with complaints...just enjoy the music, the camraderie and the respect.
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Using Boston as an example, but definitely not to knock on them, consider this show description:
...
Stu said in another thread something that has stuck with me - the most popular shows in recent years are not necessarily always the ones with the simplest themes, but the ones that get communicated most directly. That said, how in the world are any of the descriptions in this paragraph above going to get communicated from the field?
Mike
Seems pretty stock to me:
The program begins with the shock of catastrophe. [CORPS ENTRANCE] In darkness, the inner spark of hope that never falters helps humanity ascend from the ashes toward light and to a place of possibilities. [OPENER] The climb continues as love and kindness grounded in friendship and community motivates man to shed old paradigms and welcome new horizons. [bALLAD] Although oppression and domination are ever-present and return with a vengeance [DRUM SOLO?]; resilience and perseverance prevail, and the indomitable spirit of man will RISE again. [CLOSER]
or:
Down
Up
Down
Down
Up
or:
ppp
fff
mf
fp
fff
As Paulo Coehlo says, "...ALL ANYONE EVER DOES IS RECYCLE THE SAME FOUR THEMES: A LOVE STORY BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE, A LOVE TRIANGLE, THE STRUGGLE FOR POWER, AND THE STORY OF A JOURNEY."
That covers all of drum corps themes, right?
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There sure is a lot of cynicism and paranoia associated with this thread. I feel that the proposal from the 7 is reasonable, level headed, and makes sense for the future of this activity. Why don't the most consistently successful corps have a vote in DCI? That is flat out bad business, DCI is not taking advantage of input from the most successful. No one will convince me that the talk of this being a "power grab" is anything but anti-Hop rhetoric, plain and simple. We have a really bad economic environment in this country, keeping a drum corps alive is a challenging endeavor. If DCI doesn't listen to input from the successful in this activity, they will not survive. I say kudos to the 7 for thinking outside of the box and trying to ensure the future of this great but fragile activity.
This is enough to make me stop lurking.
dans, I appreciate your point, and agree that you shouldn't necessarily be downvoted solely because you provided a contrary opinion, HOWEVER, there is some insinuation here that I believe needs to be corrected.
1) "If DCI doesn't listen to the successful in the activity" indicates that the members of DCI aren't interested in input from the (competitively) successful groups, which is a fallacy. If I understand history correctly, none of their directors has run for a seat on the DCI BoD since 2010. It's not that they are being kept out or that folks aren't interested in listening, they are intentionally not participating in any leadership. Which of course hanicaps the entity as whole if any larger constituency isn't engaged in forward thinking discussions. That's very important to note.
2) "Kudos to the 7 for thinking outside of the box" implies that there is a plan of some sort, when George explicity states that they have no plan. If you take it in another context that they are thinking "outside" of the governace box and proposing a new governance model, that's true, but a) it's not a new model, it's a reversion and b) Hop was the one that advocated for the governance model currently in place a few years ago, IIRC.
3) Lastly, I understand the value we all place on "on-the-field" success in this wonderful activity. Consider for a moment that there may be some intelligent directors who may have been "successful" on other areas, (say, business development?) beyond 12th place.
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Something tells me Boston is about to shake things up
This
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Maybe this is a piece they stayed away from because of his connection. And maybe they are doing it now as a way to say thank you?
I like your version better than mine. :-)
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I may be reading too far into this, but consider the following:
JD Shaw was the AMAZING soloist on Nessun Dorma in 91.
Any chance this is a way for the remaining team to stick it to the guy(s) that left?
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I wonder if he might become a judge again
I bet we'll see Jay back in a green polo in a year or two. He might have to take a year away before he can jump into judging though.
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i wonder if he will go to blue stars
I will give you one million dollars if Jay Kennedy ends up at Blue Stars.
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Now this is interesting!
Crusaders announce revolutionary way to pay
I don't know that I've ever seen this from a corps before. I think they are on to something.
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FYI-Lawrence, Mass is a total pit.
Thanks.
But the stadium is great, right Somerville?
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craiga--the voice of reason! Plus 1 to you sir. Both corps share a ton of history and outlook on the activity. It's great to see their directors promoting HEALTHY competition on and off the field. I'm sure they are both proud of their supporters for doing the same.
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There's this little saying called, "No room at the top". When you're facing down the Top 7, it's insanely hard for anyone to break into it. Maybe next year, but I don't see it this year.
You are right, but of the corps currently in 8-12 Boston is the only one to place higher than 8th in the last 5 years. It's not an impossible task. Those guys in 1-7 aren't magical nor invincible.
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My son is an adult, and as such he can make his own choices, but because he is fair-skinned and a towhead I wish he would wear a shirt. WHO came out last year and equated tanning and UV rays with exposure to radiation and lead paint in terms of danger (although their report was based on tanning beds, it applies). Many studies have shown a direct link between over-exposure to sun at an early age and later cancer, and melanoma is almost universally fatal. When I talked about this with the drum major and corps folks he marched with last year, they just kind of rolled their eyes, which I understand- they see this as the least of their problems. But what about a rule that would require wearing shirts in rehearsal? If just a few kids could be saved from having tumors cut off their skin or worse later on, it seems like it would be worthwhile to me...I know it's a ridiculous thing, but I worry nonetheless.
What do the drum major and corps folks he is marching with this year say? Do they require tee shirts at all times?
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Here's the problem with using facebook "Likes" as a metric: Yes, it means someone clicked on something for the corps, organization, whatever...it indicates some type of affinity, but especially with the newer facebook pages, "Like"ins versus being "friends" with, it doesn't mean much. Facebook is a great tool, and the popularity contest metric looks like it's valuable, but when 683,252 people like "The Sun" it should give you a little bit of perspective.
Facebook is fun--it's a valuable tool when used right, but let's not give it more weight than it warrants. Can having more "likes" mean more cash? Possibly. IS it indicative of purchasing power? No.
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I will not pretend to know what the costs are of running a competitive WGI guard, but I say good for Crown for deciding not to overextend themselves. Those guys have made some very shrewd business decisions in the last decade to get them where they are, and if they made this call, it's probably for the best.
Another thing to remember: these days, guards attached to corps are often (not ALWAYS, just often) more a function of the instructor, not the organization. IIRC, Phantom's guard went under and Crown's appeared around the same time. Maybe it wasn't meeting the needs of the overall organization.
It's all about risk vs. reward, right?
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Yes. Drum corps has lost its soul. It tried to find it at the Lincoln Memorial on Saturday, but didn't find it there either. Drum corps wanders the planet in search for its inner being. Can it find contentment, peace, happiness? We shall see.
Can I play devil's advocate here on the OP's behalf?
If you're defining drum corps' soul by the values and founding principles of the first units formed in the early part of this century, then I might venture to say OP is correct.
That does NOT, however mean that drum corps isn't valuable, and doesn't provide a priceless experience for those who participate.
If the OP meant "are today's drum corps fulfilling the same needs for their constituents as their predecessors in the 40s and 50s?" then I'd say, no, the majority of them are not.
But they are offering the same type of life-changing experience--to a different class of people.
Just sayin'
Thank you to Phantom and BK for traveling way out here to California!
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
What a lovely sentiment.
Might I humbly suggest you take 2 minutes to actually email the corps/corps directors to express your thanks. A CA tour is a significant undertaking, and I bet they'd love to hear your appreciation right about now.