the1gofer
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Posts posted by the1gofer
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It's the blame the judges game again?
If you saw the same Scouts guard I did, you'd understand the score. Like it or not, guard now accounts for more of the total score than it ever has before. For the Scouts to remain competitive, the guard program is going to have to improve both in talent and quality of work given. The days of sending the flags twenty yards backfield are over.
Well if you take a look at the recap you will see ALL of the scores fall into the same position. I think it has more to do with a judging philosophy that makes it difficult for corps to change position this late in the season. I would agree with you if some scores were in the top 5 and the guard was really low, but that simply isn't the case, all of the scores besides color guard are around 8th or 9th place.
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Here are a couple I took that I like.
I really like their uniforms.
The hometown favorite.
You can see all of my favorites at my photoblog or all of my photos, including the ones that didn't turn out so well my flickr page.
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Despite the rain, which threatened to end the show, all groups performed well.
In my opinion, and apparently NOT the judges, the highlights of the show were as follows. In order of my memory, Madison Scouts, Carolina Crown, Phantom Regiment, and The Cavaliers.
The Scout's show started off strong and remained very exciting throughout. While not completely innovative or new it was reminiscent of other popular shows of the past. Their execution was near flawless, and the performers seem totally confident with their roles. *disclaimer, I am not a scouts fan* In my opinion they were saverly underscored. They should have been in the top 5 at least. It seemed that many in the crowed agreed with me because once the score was announced a loud round of booing in sued. I am disappointed in what seems to have become the now routeen misplacement of corps. Its still unclear why the judges placed them so low, but it's apparent the scouts must not be in favor with the power that be in DCI. Performers and staff alike should be aware, and I am sure they are, that their real score is much higher despite what some "unbiased" *said with a great deal of sarcasm and disdain* judges may say.
I have never seen Carolina in person before, and they were quite a treat to see. Their show had a pleasant theme, and they told their story well. I was immedatly struck by their musical talent, even more than their drill. Musicly speaking they were one of the more talented groups on the field. While they had their moments of "high fast and loud" they were not over come by them. They demonstrated alot of artistry that the critics of drum corps would be surprised to hear.
Phantom, as usual, was very good. They have allot of fans in Arizona, and like myself, I think many of us wish they would make it here more often. I was again struck, not surprisingly, by their musical performance more than drill. It wasn't, however, the most exciting show, in my opinion.
Finally, the Cavaliers. Obviously the group who should, and did, take home the gold. Their show tended to a appeal more of the High fast and loud crowd, but their execution was near flawless.
This brings me to my last two issues with the show. First, didn't DCI publish that the show order would be random sometime last year or the year before? With the exception of two corps switching place, the performance order was exactly the same as the score order. This leads me to two possible conclusions, either the judges are too stupid to see past the order and judge the corps based on what they see, or the order isn't random at all. As a spectator, I would like to see the corps mixed up, and be able to judge for myself who I think the winner is going to be, not just sit in the stands, have the corps paraded in front of me, and have an obligatory, and meaningless award ceremony at the end of the show.
That brings me to my second issue. Why have the drum majors line up in the order of the score? That defeats the whole purpose of the ceremony. As an audience member I want to be surprised when I find out who gets first. Their should be some tension before they announce second and we realize who gets the gold. It almost appeared as if the officials that ran the show wanted to get it over with as soon as possible because we were running so late. I would like to remind those officials and DCI that we the audience members, payed for tickets to the show, and just gave them ALOT of money, to be entertained. They should keep that in mind and entertain us to the END of the show.
All that said, I still enjoyed the show!
If anyone is interested I took alot of pictures of the show. You can find them at My Flickr Page
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Sigh...
Can any thread in this forum stay on topic?
I do realize the irony that this question is also off topic.
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I made a couple of collages from drum corps photos. Let me know what you think.
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You can only do so much with 30 members, especially when performing on a football field.
I think it forces the designers to be more creative with how they use the football field. When was the last time a DI corps used back drops, or reposioned the pit?
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Did the renegades organize the symposium, or did they just participate?
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Their new web address is www.rcrdbc.org
thanks!
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Does anyone have contact information for the River City Regement? Thier site seems to be down and none of the email address I have found seem to work. PM if you have it.
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Who wants to come to phoenix, AZ??
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Rochester
Is it always the same place?
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Has the location for 2007 DCA finals been anounced yet?
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Does anyone else seem to think their is a judging bias centered around number or members? And if not a bias, then a preffernce?
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i can promise you my accounts of those experiences are entirely accurate. i can recall mr jcrews being at one of them, he knows that's exactly how it was.
but i do agree the kids are improving, indeed they are, but the management is not, and i know anyone can recognize that fact. that corps is ran more like a high school marching band than anything, and that is what appears to be their main folly. drum corps management is a business. the activity itself is sport, fun, whatever you want to call it. but those in charge of the corps are the one's who bear a responsibility to make the machine work, but that responsibility, for the second year in a row, has been neglected.
and honestly, dont feel bad for me, i got out the instant i realized the instability of the organization. feel bad for the kids who poured in hundreds of dollars and countless hours of their time just to watch it fall apart.
I never said your account wasn't accurate, I said you don't know what is happening now. None of us can live in the past, only the present. Presently the organization is undergoing changes that will hopefully change things for the better. You were not and are not in a position to see all of those things. Only time will reveal wither or not those things have the impact we hope. Again, I'm not saying your wrong. I don't agree with your interpretation of those experiences. Judging the entire organization by the first two camps is like judging War and Piece by the first two pages. It can't accurately be done. I believe your view of the events and the organizations is slightly skewed, that's all. I know I'm not completely unbiased either. I think I have a more complete picture.
But the topic seems to have changed from what I had in mind when I started. I only wanted to address the rumors that were circulating about our first two competitions. That I have done, but now it seems to have changed into something else entirely. Those who are concerned with D3 or Jester have become polarized around this topic and we have begun debating the legitimacy of our organization. We will continue to do what we are doing so long as we keep improving, after all we are teachers first. Legitimacy is something for DCI to decide and doesn’t seem to be up for debate in the forum of public opinion. I appreciate everyone’s support and I appreciate other's lack their of.
Let me share one final story that has influenced the way I look at the activity, and perhaps it will help you all understand where I am coming from. Between the end of last season and the beginning this season I was discouraged about our scores in competition. As a result of my discouragement I was debating wither or not I would continue any involvement whatsoever in the activity. So I began to express my frustration to a colleague who asked me one simple question. "Why do you judge the success or failure of an entire season based on the opinion of a few judges?" I didn't have an answer. He then told me to define my personal success and define what success for the organization. If I met that and the organization met that, why then should I be discouraged? He was rite, of course, I realized that my self-worth and the value of the organization aren’t determined by those select few individuals who are called judges, or by the many individuals who share their opinion in forms such as these. My success and our success are determined simply. Are the students getting better? I know they are, as do many of you, so I know we are becoming successful. I stated before that the competition should be a byproduct of the educational experience not the product, and I firmly hold that conviction.
Having realized how the discussion has changed from making a statement of fact to a debate on the validity of our organization I will leave this topic.
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I think there is a strong following of Jester's situation on DCP because a few posters started threads last year concerning the corps. Many of us had not hear of them before but started to follow the progress. We saw posts telling us how great the corps would be this season, and how "so and so" was on staff etc. Basically a lot of hype and publicity.....that seems to be for naught. I think people stirred up interest in hopes of great things....unfortunalty we are seeing the great things promised, but we are still interested in what is going on.
Ktown had first hand experience from two camps this season. This persons post seems genuine, and if the situation is anything like it was described I would say there is management problems that could be fixed.
Yes and no. Yes he knew what he saw in those camps. No he doens't know what is going on now. In the end I don't think it really matters. He appears really hurt, and that I feal bad about! Much of his post sounds like it's coming from being hurt, and I don't blame him. I would probably feal the same way if I were him, but their is another side to the coin. I could point out several facts that I disagre with, but what would that accomplish? I chalenge people to look at the facts. The kids are improving, theirfor the organization is improving. That's the most important issue.
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my point is, is that jester is an awfully run organization. as a prospective member who attended their first two camps, i was appaled by anything associated with it managerially. i had planned on this being my first year being involved in the drum corps activity, and i was extremely excited. i had originally planned to attend the academy auditions but when i found out that they already had over 400 applicants and that there was another, smaller corps in the state, i chose that opportunity. by choosing this path, i sacrificed my opportunity to even audition for academy considering they had scheduled the jester camps on the same exact days as the academy. but at the time is seemed plausible. i had heard the jester horror stories from last year, where it was ran by a bunch of people the kids hated, and there was ultimately a revolt merely days before their scheduled tour where a majority of the corps disbanded and members of the staff left. but, this year it was supposed to be better. there was supposed to be more kids, new staff, basically a new beginning. but when i arrived at the first camp with 5 other kids from my school(by the way, we drove 4 hours to attend this camp) we were greeted by an empty building. we showed up and there was merely a small banner jester on the fence outside and we thought maybe we were in the wrong facility. but when we found it, all that was there was a director, a secretary, and a list of fees. as the camp progressed only 3 other kids showed up. that left us with a weekend long camp with half a drumline, one horn, and one guard member. there was a bit of hope with the arrival of the brass caption head and percussion caption though, who were the only members of the staff with any actual drum corps experience. we were reassured that there would be many more kids at the next camp, and we would have a better experience. this was VERY untrue. at the arrival of the second camp, we were led to maricopa high school, a high school basically in the middle of no where, this resulted in this now 5 hour drive turning into a 6 hour affair, due to fact that it was pretty much impossible not to get lost looking for the place. upon arrival, we found a secretary, a brass caption head, a brass assistant, a percussion caption head, and even more fees(by the way, both the brass assistant, and percussion caption head came with us considering they were both from our school, around 5 hours away). we were speechless. the attendance was even LOWER at this camp. and this time, there was even the absence of the director to deal with. we were stuck. there was hardly anything we could do, except cancel the camp we had already paid for halfway through.
at this point. i left the organization. but several of my friends remained and kept me up to date on the status. according to my sources, attendance at the remaining camps was basically measley. the majority of the members were kids who actually attended the high school the director was at, and that was apparently their recruitment plan. the kids worked ridiculously hard for several months, putting the show together with a small staff and fees that were amounting over 1000 dollars. the corps was promised a trip to madison over the first few months, but apparently it stopped getting talked about, and ultimately cancelled.
i felt hopeful for the remaining members considering they apparently had solid brass, guard, percussion, and front ensemble heads who were keeping the corps moving, but then i found out what i had been expecting. within a few weeks of tour, the brass, guard and percussion heads all resigned. leaving the kids helpless. several kids who had placed over 1000 dollars into this organization did not know what to do. several left, obviously some stayed. but my point is, is that these kids deserve better. when their only opportunities are a monster like academy that eats everything in its path and is largely made of either returning members or college students, or this crippled, sorry excuse for an organization known as jester, the kids are the ones being cheated. this corps needs a SERIOUS staff adjustment, and certainly a new gameplan. the executives of this organization need to give the kids who have placed such time, sacrifice, and devotion these things in return!
i wish all the jester kids the best on their tour. i just hope next year the staff actually gets it together for once.
General disclaimer: The following statements are not meant to be argumentative or directed at any particular person.
I'm sorry you feel this way, however the title of this post is "Jester - Settling Rumors with fact", and I don't believe you have any facts in your response. I see allot of “I feel", "I hear", "my sources say", and on and on. The fact is, no one really knows what the management is doing other than the management.
Here are my feelings about a general problem that affects Jester. I believe that Arizonans in general suffer from severe "Fair Weather Fan". Take for example our local basketball team, when they were loosing no one went to their games, but when they made finals allot of fans suddenly came out of the woodworks. I believe this applies to Jester Corps as well. You said it yourself, when things were tough in the beginning you quit. You can give as many justifications as you want or no justification at all, but you quit. I don't hold any ill will toward any student who decides the activity or the organization is not for them. However, "crippled, sorry excuse for an organization known as jester" is an accusation made out of ignorance. You will be hard pressed to find a current member of the corps that has bad things to say, they will say it's been tough at time, and very discouraging at times, however most of them will say they love the activity and they love the organization, and they love the friends they have made.
I will agree that they have issues with inconstancy with staff, but I don't believe it's completely the managements fault. I know that if the students are really the center of the activity then regardless of issues you may have with management you stick it out till the end of the season and then leave quietly. If for some extreme reason you believe that you can't finish the season then you still leave quietly.
You say "These kids deserve better". I have seen this comment before, and I can't understand it. Are we holding the students hostage? Are we abusing them? Many of our members are returning members, many of the members have been with the organization for several years, and many of the students could hold their own in any D1 corps. It sounds to me like we have talented students seeking us out, we must be doing something rite.
In the end, you can't argue with numbers. Jester will be on the road this weekend and we'll let the numbers speak for themselves.
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Maybe DCP should ban "musicdesign".
Garry
No, he's intitled to his oppinion. I susspect he isn't the only one who feals as he does. He's just the most vocal.
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So that means all the corps that choose to stay D3 with about 45 members (as to fit on 1 bus because they can't afford 2 buses, the gas and driver for that 2nd bus) then these corps are hurting the activity because they aren't stiving for D1 status. Money is a huge part of everything. Yes grabing a stand and a chair and have someone sitting at band shows for several shows doesn't cost much, but it costs money to develop brochures and videos and stuff to entice a young kid that has only seen D1 on PBS or at a show and has never heard of your small little corps. Why would most kids come to the little corps with little money, when the Bluecoats have a stand at that same show and were on TV and have videos and DVDs and t-shirts to sell. Money rules all... but money isn't the end all. But you have to have it to make it.
I believe small corps appeal to a different type of kid. From my experience we seem to attract those students who are seeking, more than anything else, a second family. I don't know what it's like in the bigger cops, so I can't say if it’s the same, but I have never seen students as bonded to one another, as those in Jester. As a result most of our recruiting is done word of mouth. That's not to say their is no merit in having someone spend all day sitting in the sun to talk to potential members. You have to step outside the D1 paradigm to get D3 to really work.
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Has anyone else noticed how contriversial Jester seems to be? What about our mere existance stirs up so many strong emotions?
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Thank your for all of your support!
Please don't misinterpreted any of my responses as argumentative or hostile. I only want to show the other side of the coin.
First of all! If a corps only has only 15 members or even 30 they should not be allowed to compete at the DCI level! This has nothing to do with numbers. It has to do with Managment most of the time these corps including Jester have made no real effort to recruit! You don't see any visible sign of Jester or alot of these others corps at BOA shows or even local marching band circuit shows! So you all have to stop making excuses for these corps. No reason why Jester along with many other Division 3 corps can not go out with more then 30 members.I believe it's more than shortsighted to make the assumption we are not recruting becasue you don't see us recruiting.
I hate to tell you that yes this is a youth activity but it is also a business even at the Division 2/3 level. and DCI is a competitive circuit. If your not going to be competitive and on and off the field then you should not be competing and touring. Yes there should be a place for these corps to perform and DCI should create such a place but they should not be competing and touring and being represented at Championships!I wonder if anyone else thinks that's a problem with the activity. You are absolutely correct it is a business, and many corps management isn't effective in those regards. However your focus seems to be on the business, and not the youth. The competition shouldn't be the product; it should be the byproduct, a result of the hard work and dedication the youth have burnt countless hours on. I for one have a burden for them, not for the competition. Jester is getting better every year. No one can argue that.
BTW groups like Jester arn't represented at Championships.
As far as competing with only 15 or 30. Yes these corps do have kids who have talent which makes it even more of a shame that these corps do not try to be competitive. These corps also have alot of what I will call bodies! kids just to fill holes. Nothing against any member. I think it is great that someone wants to march but they should be getting quality instructors and instruction and a quality experience which alot of these corps don't offer.Who is the focus? It seems that it's become a rather egocentric activity if I base it soly on the above statement. Isn't it the members who are competing? Arn't they the ones who play, march, and conduct? Arn't they the ones who get the recognition and satisfaction of winning? Or are we? Is that why we teach? Is that why we tour? Is that why we recruit? So that our egos can be fed?
I can understand a corps which is going out for the first time only having 15-30 members as they are building but a corps that has been around for few years that shows no growth yes numbers wise and score wise is not an organization doing it's job. No excuse for that!Has their really been no growth in Jester? Allow me to quote this site:
1. Mystikal 11.40 -2.00 6/28
2. Raiders 10.90 +10.90 6/25
3. Jester 10.30 +3.70 6/25
4. Hawthorne Gold 10.20 -3.60 6/28
5. Dutch Boy 10.10 +10.10 6/28
6. Fever 9.70 -2.90 6/20
7. Blue Devils C 9.40 +0.30 6/18
8. Citations 9.30 +9.30 6/25
9. Capital Sound 9.10 -1.00 6/28
10. Targets 7.80 +7.80 6/25
11. 7th Regiment 7.00 +7.00 6/25
This was rite after our last show? Did we beat anyone in any caption last season? I would call that growth.
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First let me say that I am new to this forum, so please forgive me if I restate anything that has already been said.
Allow me to thank all of you who posted kind reviews and words of encouragement about the corps. I sent those kind words to our members.
Many of you noticed that we were announced as exhibition in our Mesa, AZ show, some of you stated this was because we didn't have the numbers to field. DCI in turn scored and medaled us despite our obvious deficiency. The obvious problem with this conjecture is their were 30 members on the field, but the announcement was mistake.
I believe this was rumor was given some weight because the next show we weren't actually scored. Everyone has noticed that we are very close to the 30 mark, in fact in this last tour we were at exactly 30. Two of the members had to attend a weding which should have allowed them enough time to make the performance. It didn't, however, so we had 28 and received tapes and no score.
I hope this helps clear some of the confusion.
Finals Photos
in DCI (All) Corps Show & Event Reviews
Posted
Here are some photos I took of the show. You can see all of the photos I took at My Flickr Page As time goes on I will be posting some of the good ones on My PhotoBlog. Leave a comment and let me know what you think.