asifindnoarta
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Posts posted by asifindnoarta
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I don’t understand why some current drum crops fans are ashamed of it’s military roots. I don’t understand why some corps want to distance themselves from their military roots, I believe Hopkins has a quote on this floating around on this. Usually, its presented as a given but never with a reason.
So, why are you ashamed of drum corps military roots?
Why should corps distance themselves from their military roots?
Drum corps and the Military share an interesting relationship.
Drum corps employs severly strict disciplinary values and teaches uniformity for the sole purpose of making art.
The military employs severly strict disciplinary values and teaches uniformity for the sole purpose of killing people.
Both share the same values but for different reasons.
Making art is good. Killing people is evil.
So while Drum Corps should distance itself from killing people, it requires the intense, mental and physical discipline and uniformity (military-like) to achieve its goals.
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So I keep reading how the "downfall of DC" is eminit due to judging out weighing fan appreciation and vice versa. And yes, there are people on both sides and I want to know what you think.
1 Where do you put DC on the continum of Judging vs. fan appretiation?
2 Who is its intended audiance, (judges or fans?)
3 Do you see anything wrong with this set up?
4 What would you do to fix it? (Can it be fixed? Does it need to be fixed?)
Just trying to get the pulse of those on DCP.
Good question!
1) Right now shows are designed and tweaked I'd say primarily for the judges.
2) The audience is the intended audience but I think what you mean is who is the show written for and I'd say right now shows are written for points rather than applause.
3) Yes. Judges shouldn't exist. You can't objectively evaluate drum corps. Drum corps isn't a spectator sport its an artform. Bach, Monet, and Joyce weren't making their stuff for judges. Judging defines the activity as competitive. The Competitivenes of the activity actually inhibits artistic expression.
4) It can be fixed. Get rid of judging. Get rid of rules. Let drum corps do whatever they see fit to do with their shows. No judges = no competition = no rules. No rules = whatever you want = better drum corps.
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The University of Massachusetts Amherst application asks whether or not an applicant has any drum corps experience under the ACTIVITIES, INTERESTS AND WORK EXPERIENCE section.
https://webapp.spire.umass.edu/admissions/c...gapp_display.pl
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honestly, towards the bottom of both choices. love the corps, no disrespect to the people, but i think they played it safe this year and caught a huge break. performance levels werent what im used to from the corps, and with some exceptions, i didnt think the design was very engaging or thrilling either. i thought '06 was a championship show, not '07.
I'm with you on this
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This is an easy one
Overrated - oh sweet jesus the bluecoats... there were a significant amount of people who posted on this forum that bluecoats would break into the top three and some people even thought they actually had a chance at winning. Then when they topped cavies and BD midseason this place went nuts. and blooo winning horns at quarterfinals!? I don't think so.
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No.
Why not?
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I SOOO WANT TO BE THE NARRATION JUDGE
Umm good job tonight Cadets. I really liked the voice inflections in the early part of the show. The HighSchool student was a little too "EMO" for me, but i do understand what you are trying to do here. I would like to see a little more speaking from the diaphragm and cleaner diction. In addition, the east coast dialect is really coming through tonight if you want to max out in this caption you are going to need to move towards a more neutral dialect. Look forward to discussing this at our scheduled conference.
hahaha I like your sense of humor
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The answer is simple...it's easy to be a critic.
its also more beneficial to the activity
if everyone praises everything there is no improvement
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Just playing devils advocate. But yes, all sounds can be considered music. Will everyone enjoy the music? Probably not.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I don't think music can happen by accident. I don't think a baseball hit through a glass window is "music" just because it vibrates the air in wave patters no more than I think bird crap on a car is a painting.
Music has to be intentional, like narration. I'll go so far to say that you can respond to this argument by saying that the narration is intentional therefore its music. Well I'm going to counter that by saying that not all intentional sound is music. Alarms are not music. Alarms are sounds used for a different reason then music. Same thing applies with narration.
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This thread is completely for goodness, and to conngratulate every individual who has ever marched with a corps. D1 to D2 to D3...
In that case, I congratulate... ME! I marched with a D1 corps and since your thread is all about goodness, I'm going to celebrate mine here. I was amazing when I marched and my marching has been so beneficial to me that its crazy. What I did was so good that I can't even stand myself.
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Isn't the definition of music "sound within a given time"?
well ok i was rude with my dismissive "no" I'll say more
first of all... all sound occurs "within a given time" - no sound happens outside of time. I'd be impressed if you showed me sound that occured not within a given time
that means that all sound occurs within a given time
and if music is "sound within' a given time" and if all sound is sound within a given time, then all sound is music
no, all sound is not music.
example: narration
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Isn't the definition of music "sound within a given time"?
no
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Not having standards for use of amplification and vocal performance is a glaring void. My guess is that some key players in DCI will agree it needs to be addressed.
I hope so
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well they arent performing 5 act operas on the field (at least not yet :P )...how much training would really be necessary to say things like "I can't understand what he is saying at this part", or "the narration sounds mechanical", or something else like that? We're talking (no pun intended) about an 11 1/2 minute show where people march around a field playing instruments and sometimes maybe saying something into a microphone...its not opera night at the MET.
plus many adjudicators are music educators and therefore have some experience with things like chorus and possibly diction. Surely even the most inept trained musician can distinguish between well executed and poorly executed vocal parts.
I do think you're underplaying the importance of narration that is going on in drum corps shows right now. One particular drum corps this year had a huge amount of narration proportionally speaking. It was obviously a big part of the program for which there is no clear way of evaluating how that part of the program was performed.
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well it is obvious that narration cannot be its own caption and more than "cowbell" can...the simplest solution is to just rewrite to standards for GE music and Ensemble music to include evaluation of spoken parts.
Fair enough, but what about the technical execcution of spoken lines? It is not the place of the G.E. Music, or Ensemble Music judge to evaluate (and reflect with a number) the technical proficiency of the musicians. That is the job of the music performance judge. So would the G.E. Music judge also evaluate the quality of narration in addition to its contribution to the overall effect.
What I want to know is, where do corps get/loose points for good/bad acting?
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As I suggested in Reply 13, you cannot create a designated "narration" or "voice" caption without in effect mandating the use of narration. Every corps would have to use it in order to earn the points in the caption. Don't go there! If you don't like incorporating narration into GE Music, then find another existing caption where you think it fits better-- I would suggest there is no such caption-- or propose renaming an existing caption, e.g. make GE Music --> GE Sound, and add it to that caption, and then you can put it in conditionally... If narration is used... If a sound system is used... If electronics are used... that way, these design options don't have to be used to earn points under the caption. If they're not used, credit is neither earned nor forgone.
I like where you're going with this. I think conditionals would work well in this case, however may jeapordize the integrity and consistancy of the rest of the rubric. Imagine, if there is marching in the program. But I do think conditionals may have to be used in order to make this work so I agree with you there.
I also really like where you're going with renaming G.E. Music to G.E. Sound. I think this term would be more appropriate if evaluations of narration are to be included in this caption.
Now here's one other thing. You show me a green-shirt who knows anything about acting or oration. Personally I think its a little irresponsible to say "yes, we will allow you to speak during a drum corps show, and we'll judge it too, but our ajudicators don't have any experience" that's just not fair.
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well, thats not quite accurate...narration is simply a tool, like a wood block, or a triangle....It is not have to be in every show any more than than those instruments do. The use obviously falls under the GE caption...
as it is, the only change I could think of making would be to expand the criteria for the Music judge to include quality of narration specifically (technically if it is a part of the music and is audible, these judges should be evaluating it already)
I submit to you that narration is not music. Therefore, it should not be judged under G.E. music.
Singing
Lyrical poetry that employs the use of strictly timed meter a.k.a. rap
Drumspeak
these are forms of music caused by the human voice that should be judged as "music"
talking is not music
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Question: If it gets a subcaption or even caption will it HAVE to be in EVERY SHOW in order for them to compete? Thoughts?
Yes. This is why I think we've got a tricky situation on our hands.
Neglect to include a narration caption and you've got narration going unjudged.
Include a narration caption and corps who don't use it don't get points.
The problems narration is creating has not yet been outweighed by the benefits being brought to drum corps presentations by narration.
Fix it DCI. You allowed it. What now?
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The following is the question I submitted to DCI:
The following is a question to which I would very much appreciate as thorough a response as convenience will allow.
Drum Corps International has allowed for the use of narration through electronic amplification in DCI sanctioned performances.
Narration is now an element of the drum corps show, yet there is no caption or subcaption, whatsoever, pertaining to the effect, design, or performance of this new artistic element which you have allowed.
My question:
In what caption or subcaption should its respective adjudicator reflect his or her evaluation of narrative performance in all relevant cases?
Thank You
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Thank you all for forwarding contact information. I will send this concern to DCI. I will post there response, if any, on this forum.
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Submit this question to DCI and wait for a response.
How do I do this?
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perhaps you would be better served sending this question to DCI directly.
How do I do this?
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Maybe you should speak with DCI directly.
Do you think that I should? Do you think that I have a valid point that should be considered?
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With the advent of narration we face a new challenge in the evaluation process.
Narration is now a part of the drum corps show, whether we like it or not we can't ignore it. No one can deny that narration has been a part of several drum corps shows over the past few years. I believe that since narration is now a part of some drum corps shows, it should be evaluated as part of the presentation and therefore, should effect the overall score. But there is a problem with this. Everything that is done during a drum corps performance can be evaluated within the restrictions of the ajudication rubric. Drill is evaluated on its effectiveness, and its design and complexity, but drill is also evaluated on how well each of the members can march on an individual to individual basis. As of now narration can only be feasibly evaluated on how it adds or detracts from the overall effect of the show. No judge can assign a number to how well the narration is performed. Simply put, there is no performance caption for narration.
In other words.
If a narrator is a poor actor, there is no accountability except for the general effect caption. But even the G.E. caption only allows for evaluation with respect to two elements of drum corps. Visual and Music.
Any judge who has done anything BUT ignored narration with respect to his or her evaluation of a drum corps performance including narration is kidding themselves. Right now there is NO space for the evaluation of narration from a performance or effect standpoint within the rubric.
If DCI is to allow narration in the presentations of groups they need to allow for a space for it on the rubric. If its a part of the show it needs to be judged and right now it can't be. Of course this brings up many problems for groups who do not use narration. Because if you have a "narration" caption... what happens to groups who don't have any? You could consider narration, being a element of auditory stimulation, like music, under the music category. But narration isn't a part of the musical texture, it is something else.
DCI has allowed a radical element of drum corps to be added without accounting for how the evaluation of such an element is to be dealt with. Personally I find this a little irresponsible considering no one seems to have thought of this. Or at least people have thought of it that I don't know about and nothing has been done to address this.
Bottom line: If people are going to be performing narrative lines in drum corps shows, their individual performance technique needs to be recognized by DCI. If you're going to act poorly, it should hurt your score in some justifiable sense.
So with that I ask DCI, if there is poor narration in a drum corps show, in what sub-caption should a judge reflect this through a score?
please answer me DCI.
and for that matter, DCP. I want to know what everyone think about this.
Ashamed of drum corps military roots
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
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I'm not willing to discuss anything in PM's but I am here and I think its appropriate. A MOD will shut us down if I am wrong.
ok good and evil
good... no one gets hurt, actually people get pleasure. Drum corps doesn't hurt anybody.
evil... pain and suffering are a direct cause. The military kills people, hurts people.