spirit7698
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Posts posted by spirit7698
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....... Scores yet?
oops they're up. Gotta admit though it would be kinda cool for devils to win and have 2 three-peats ( A corps and B corps ). -
Looking back since I play with a 24" ride on mt kit sometimes, I remember that Conneticut Hurricanes cymbals were so big that the only way to crash them was you had to lean your head back as if
you were gonna start going into a bridge, extend your arms straight out and angled upwards and crash in the area where your head would have been. Yes definitely bigger than 24" or 26" maybe they were 28" or 30". He had to get them custom made from Zildjian and they were not carried in parades, they were driven on the back of a golf cart and would just pick them up for when they stopped to play to the stands.
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84, 85 and 88 Suncoast Sound.
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Also recall, for a short time in the late 60's and early 70's, it was fashionable for corps to have one guy carrying a monster pair of plates (24"?), rendering a huge crash about every 32 counts or so (it took that long to wind up!). Again, not particularly musical but fun to watch. I recall Blue Stars and, maybe, Cavaliers doing this...not sure who else but I know there were others.
Cymbal techniques have come a long way since then...
In 95 and 96 during the wait for the Rode Island July 4th parade to start, we ( Spirt's cymbal line ) got to play around with Al's ( ? ) 24" plates from Connecticut Hurricanes.
We did a few flip ups and downs and tried crazy 8s but that was some serious work haha!!
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I had no idea so much went into the making of a cymbal line...all these techniques and choices for certain sounds, it's all very interesting. I also wasn't aware (haven't been around the activity in a loong time) that Diaz Clark had become such a renowned name as cymbal instructors go (props to you, Diaz).
If you mention Diaz though, the person who taught him must also be recognized, and that was a guy named Kyle "Plates" Johnson. Kyle took over the cymbal line from "Nobody" because "Nobody" was working the Cymbals before Kyle, that I know of. Kyle single handedly gave Suncoast's cymbal line a "Style" and an identity, a sense of pride, if you will, incorporating many different looks, positions and techniques that really made our cymbal line stand out as a unit within the corps. For Suncoast at least, Kyle created "Cymbal Hype."
Yea I heard about Kyle from Jack Starling and John Zollo. Where did Kyle come from oh and when you were at Spirit in the 70's who did the cymbal line then?
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Our guys were kinda flashy even pre DCI.
Mickey, the player in front turned out to lead one of the best rifle squads around, too.
Hey what corps is that and when?
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Alot and almost all HBCU style lines use them. I actually saw some single toms, big bi-toms ( 20" 22" ) and big tri - toms 18", 20", 22" ) at some 4th of July Parades we had in Maryland and D.C. Some of them were wood shell and some were steel. That beats the 14, 16, 18 Ludwig tri toms I marched in Jr. High in 90 and 91.
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This is great! Thank you!
I had no idea that Diaz had so much history. I remember his seeing his lines when he got to Magic and beyond. He was doing quite a bit in WGI scene for a while, too.
Not sure about John Donovan though. I thought that that guy was a quad player. I think you may be thinking of Jeff Kozol. I know he marched there at CBC for many years. Not sure if he taught them as well or if he was just there before that plate line got cut.
I'm familiar with both books you mentioned. I know Jeff Kozol also wrote a book and put out a video. The East Coast technique is so interesting. I wonder if it all came from Thom's thesis or if he just maxed out an already existing technique. When did he write that thesis, anyway?
Anyway, thanks for the info., folks! If anybody has more too share, I would love it!
Cheers!
I am sorry not John Donovan, Jeff Kozol. John is tenor player. Jeff was in the plate line for a year or few before it got cut.
Hannum was writing it for college when he was marching Crossmen. If you know Mike Lucas Crossmen Contra player in those days; He can tell you the name of the cymbal player that came up with all of those sounds, positions and visuals that are in Tom's old book.
Funny thing with the East Coast technique and heck even Diaz'S technique is when Spirit finally beat SCV in I&E ( along with their style change that year ) the whole cymbal game changed on the East coast/Midwest. If you look at Diaz's lines and his student's lines from 2003 on, Jersey Surf and who ever else had a line east of Texas, you will see it.
A little more history:
The only names I am including are people who went on to teach.
Diaz was marching Spirit then as well then marched Suncoast from 82 - 85 since Al was there then taught 86 on.
A guy named Garfield Small brought the Vanguard style of playing to Florida. He was going to march Florida Wave in 91 but they folded. He went to march cymbals in 92 at Florida Guardsmen, 93 Blue devils ( since many Wave people went west since they were taught by Nat ) then aging out at Vanguard in 94.
He taught the cymbal line at Suncoast Sound in 95 and in that line was Andrew Nixon.
Andrew and I were in the cymbal line at Spirit in 95/96 before I went to the snare line. Andrew was in that line from 95 - 98, made the line at SCV in 2000 but by or before may camp they decided to move up a kid up from the C corps who would be around for 4 or 5 more years instead of keeping a " rook out ".
He aged out at Spirit in 2000.
Fast forwarding a bit.
Andrew taught the cymbal line at Tampa Bay Thunder ( II / III back then ) in 2001. In that line was Drew Johannssen and John Bishai. Those guys along with Obed Resendez went on to march at Kiwanis Kaviliers in 2002 with Andrew as their tech and of course the next year they all were at Spirit . 2004 was Colin Choat, Mario Taylor, Obed and Drew. Mario went on to march and ageout at Crossmen in 05, Drew and Colin went on to Magic in 05. There are too many indoor connections as well as college/university connections as to marching and consulting to list with these guys and Eddie, mostly MCM/Odyssey though.
Another connection:
The cymbal lines at Teal Sound have always been taught by Spirit Vets. First with Andrew in 99 , no cymbal line for a few years, me in 04 and 05, Mario in 07 a bit and in 09 ( possibly?) and Obed in 08 / now. Mario went on to teach the re- birthed cymbal line at Spirit in 08, Obed in 09 now teaching there is Jim Powell who was under Eddie and Obed at Odyssey percussion theatre and under Mario while he marched Spirit. Phew!... There.
Let's see. My first 2 years at Spirit of Atlanta we were sponsored by Sabian. The 95 9 person line ( comprised of cymbal players, bass and snare drummers from 95 Suncoast and 2 original Spirit players )
used everything we had. 20" AA drum corps ( too heavy and not good for the Cadets style crashes ) and AA marching band along with one set of HH medium Orchestrals.
When Diaz was there in 96 we had different weight and series cymbals to have more color ( besides all of the color our sounds added ) and a fuller spectrum of frequency to support attacks, melodic lines and harmonic lines of the brass. If I can remember we had 5 players and we used a set of 18" medium thin AA bright rock crash, 18" AA medium crash, 19" HH New Symphonic medium heavy( later changed to Viennese, 18" AA marching band and an 19" HH Germanic.
97 and 98 Spirit was Zildjian Z-Macs ( I think?).
The playing style at Spirit changed because we saw that no matter how precise your technique was or how many years of experience, the old Spirit style ( AKA Cadets style ) you always had a higher percentage of air pocket crashes ( thanks to the exagerated wrists ) than you did with the Vanguard technique ( almost locked wrists ) and with young/first year players, it was a no brainer to make the change. With respect to Robert and the Vanguard, they were at the " vanguard " ( forefront ) when it came to acheiving a high quality and consistent technique.
At Teal in 04/05 although it looked like the Spirit technique, I had them doing a push through on horizontal crashes and not a ( looks like push through but not ) flat crash. Personally I like that sound better. In 04 and 05 everybody who was using the first Zildjian Stadiums were cracking and breaking cymbals. They fixed the thickness/thiness in the bridge/bell connection area without sacrificing sound.
If you want info on the Spirit style in the late 80's under Laurie and early 90's under Lance I would suggest talking to Eddie. Look him up on facebook. I hope you can get some info from the West Coast guys. It is funny all of the parrallels with East Coast/West Coast cymbal styles, rudimental drumming techniques, jazz drumming styles, Jazz in general, 70s/80s/90s hip hop and rap.
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Most definitely talk to Hannum. A friend that I taught with in 04/05 was marching Crossmen and sat near Hannum on the bus. He got some of those ideas from one of the cymbal players.
Also look up Diaz Clark who was at Spirit when Float was there then went to Suncoast Sound and created a whole other style. He took that style to Magic, Southwind, Spirit, Bluecoats and Colts. Look up Robert Chavira ( spelled right? ) from SCV. He has been there for decades ( early 80's ) and that line has been the heart of the drum corps ever since and was one of the ( if not THE ) innovators on the West Coast. Although guys that aged out of those SCV lines usually tech on tour, Robert is still on tour every now and then. John Donovan was in the line at Cadets I think in the lare 80's/early 90's and he took that style to Jersey Surf and possibly East Coast Jazz (?).
I am not sure who taught the cymbal line at Cadets in the 80'S but Laurie ( don't remember last name ) aged out of Cadets in 86 and brought that style to Spirit in 87. Lance ( Spirit late 80's ) continued it on 95 Spirit we had Holly and Beth Elder, 96 Diaz Clark for a few camps then 97 until 2004 Eddie Capps. Eddie and Andrew Nixon changed things up at Spirit in 2001 incorporating some of the west coast techniques and refreshed a bit of the way they played in 90- 93.
Sorry I don't know much about Mid-West players/playing. There is also a great book on cymbals in general and you gotta check it out. Some serious history on the Zildjian family and Turkey and also Asia.
It's called " The Cymbal Book ". Also checkout Eddie Capps book " Cymbal Techniques 101 " I will ask around for some more last names.
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When I was Suncoast Sound and Spirit the whole corps did it when we ran in the morning. Talk about a workout.
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Yes cutting from the top will be much easier. I think the Premiers have 2 or 3 small screws than bolt the shell to the top ring ( well atlest they did in the late 90's ).
Doing bearing edges on a proper router table with a good router and bits that have the bearing on the tip is really really easy. I did a roundover on my Sonor kit and re-cut the 45o inside cut on my old Ludwigs and a slight roundover with a little flat spot finished out by hand sanding for that Ludwig sound.
Check this out http://ghostnote.net/vbforum// I learned a lot about drum building from that forum.
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Where have you looked? Of course there are 15" heads, produced by practically every major drum head manufacturer. Contemporary kevlar or woven marching batters may be difficult to find (not sure if anyone's making them in 15" as a regular stock item, although Remo will custom make just about anything for you, for a price). But a variety of styles of 15" mylar plastic heads, including snare side/bottom heads, are readily available.
Peace,
Fred O.
Hey my bad. I just never seem to run into them. Well, I was living in Japan for the last 5 years but stores over there usually carry an incredible amount of gear various. Since coming home and whenever I have gone to G.C. Sam Ash I have just not found what I need, ever. 10" coated ambassador, 16" coated ambassador, Renaissance heads in any size, spiral notebook with staff paper. Just basic stuff ( ranting :.
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Also let's not forget that open class ( div II III/A A60 BITD ) always gets the shaft money wise from DCI. I think many people who have not been a part of one of these organizations has no clue about this issue.
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You also have to look at it from the point of sound travel vs. time. Especially if your section controls tempo at this one phrase and you are back field or you are back and closer to one of the goal lines and are NOT the tempo holder then you need to be able to tell where on the front side or back side of the beat ( also ahead or behind your feet ) you need to play vs. what it looks like from the drum majors hands. It is not always " center " of the beat from the back batterie perspective or whatever horn section that gets written some far out drill ( no pun intended ).
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I remember watching parades in both Madison and Orlando. Every drum corps fan I know liked the parade and it exposed our activty to significant numbers of the general public.
Sounds like a win-win.
Those parades were at the begining/middle of the week before quaters.
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As far as I know ( and I do a lot of kit drumming and hand drumming ), nobody makes a 15 inch head... The one place in percussion you may find a " 15 inch " drum would be a handmade frame drum or a hand carved dundun or djembe ( 14 is a bit too big for a djembe ) and those heads are all goat or camel skin rope tensioned or tacked and glued and tuned with fire or heat.
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Groups from Taiwan, the Philippines and many many groups from Japan have some over before. The Japanese have been coming over to compete in Div III and A6o ( as it was called ) for decades. A few U.S. corps ( besides Blue Devils, Glassmen and Madison ) have traveled outside of the U.S. and I think Teal or Spirit ( I forget which group ) is planning to travel within the next 2 seasons.
The whole traveling = pretty expensive. Even if some companies sponsor it, the instrument/guard equipment shipping is rediculous. You would be better off having sponsors ( i.e. Yamaha, Pearl, Deg, etc ) that can have equipment from local ( in that country ) distributor meet you there.
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I got into it because I was into drumming since I was 8, even though I was not taught any kind of technique or how to read music until my first drum corps camp when I was in 10th grade. It used to come on PBS 3 or 4 times a year. The first year I saw was 89. I thought it was college bands ( Duke Blue Devils, Virginia Cavaliers, etc ) and man they looked so precise. Cavaliers and SCV's drum line got me hooked before I even had a clues of what this thing was. Seeing it on PBA multiple times a year then a Marine recruiter who marched C.M.C.C Warriors said " hey there is a group close to you. Suncoast Sound. "
Now looking at what is going on now compared to then.
Economics with fuel and the cost for school band programs to get a bus to take kids to a show.
We used to play street football/basket ball or ride bikes every single day after school and church. Literally everyday..
I was in Boy Scouts ( usually based in Bapist and Epescipal churches )for only a month but was in Royal Rangers ( bassed in Assembly of God churches/same as boy scouts ) for 2 years and the majority of kids in all 8 or 9 of the neighborhoods I lived in from Columbia, South Carolina to Tampa, Fl. were in boy/girl scout type community organizations ( outdoors, camping, working towards a goal or badge/uniform ). I bet if you researched it the percentage of kids involved with scouts, now vs. then, then would be a higher percentage.
When I was 5 or 6 most of the churches ( in African American communities anyway in the South ) always had a full choir every sunday now many only have a choir every other sunday and a band and a hand ful of singers on opposite sundays ( means not as much participation now vs. then in some cases ).
There was only Nintendo, Sega and Neo Geo and most people only had one t.v. in the house so mom and dad said " go and play we wanna watch t.v. ".
There were only what 40 or 50 cable channels and maybe 200 satellite channels.
Jr high schools still had football teams ( in Florida anyway ) which meant Jr. high marching band for all football games and not just one local parade.
The fees for my first year at Suncoast were around $ 500 ( I think ) including shoes, uni parts, etc.
Many of the old folks who were our bingo grand moms/grand pas ( who in their day probably had more of a tight nit community then we in 93 did when they were kids ) have passed on.
We had uniform inspections. I remember at Spirit going to perform at VFW's and they fed us afterwards. This was in the mid to late 90's folks not the 70's.
We did a lot of community performances which I am sure helped out with sponsorship and non drum corps people seeing us by mistake.
We did tag days where we went out in uniform at local grocery stores and took donations and played and let me tell you about 95 percent of the people said " what is drum corps " even though they lived down the street from the corps hall long before the corps was ever there.
I am sure there are so many other cultural things that have changed to continue adding to the list.
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> drum corps has had some alum go out in the other worlds of music and have great success.
Some??? How about A Lot!!! I have friends that gig in NY, LA, and all over the world, and you would be surprised at how many fellow professional musicians they perform with who marched in a drum corps. To me, this is where DCI is missing the marketing boat!!!
Yep.. I and atleast 80 plus friends of mine are in that same boat. DCI - pro musician in Western classical, African, Cuban, Brazilian, Indian, etc world music inspired bands or percussion groups and also theme park bands/ensembles. Then there are all the friends who are now band directors or " normal " school teachers. Also a few that are film directors, grips, editors and D.j.'s.
These are just " a few " friends from Florida and Georgia...
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3. Well, the TOC shows do only allow the top 8 corps from last year to participate. The placements were based on DCI's judging criteria.
That is the number 2 thing I don't like about this ( # 1 how money is shared or not shared ). The " top 8 " from the last year....
How many kids aged out of those corpd last year?...... ( many from every corps )
How many staff members have changed out?..
How many directors changed out?....
How many new members ( were not there last year ) are there in each corps?...
These are not the same corps that were in the top 8 last year.......
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I'm assuming the Crossmen aren't that immature.
Yea yea I know.
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If the idea is to bankrupt as many non-G8 corps as possible, I think it will succeed brilliantly.
First 2 shows of the year are in Texas, and the Crossmen are not allowed to perform. The G8 don't want to share money with them. How f'd up is that?
Yes, the corps are independent, and to some extent can do what they want, but DCI *should* be looking out for the health of the entire activity (though, it never has). DCI is run by the top corps for the benefit of the top corps, has been that way since it was created. Think how NASCAR would be if it was run by the top 4 teams for the benefit of the top 4 teams, rather than being run by an organization not affilited with ANY of the teams, and you have DCI.
Here's a rule DCI should adopt: Any show with World Class corps in it that is not open to ANY/ALL World Class Corps that wish to participate will NOT be a DCI sanctioned show, will not be promoted by DCI or mentioned on DCI.org in any way. Also, any judges that work said show will be ineligible to judge at any DCI event for the remainder of that year. If corps want to stage an exhibition performance somewhere, fine good luck with that, but it should NEVER be allowed to interfere with the DCI competition schedule.
I, for one, will be going to the Erie, PA show the Sunday after Allentown. That's the show for all the non-G8 corps on the same day as the G8 show in NJ. I'll vote with my feet and my wallet. I used to have a performance that day, but it seems the G8 in addition to not wanting to share income with non-G8 DCI corps also don't want to share any income with exhibition corps.
Basically, if you're not in the G8, you're getting screwed by them.
Crossmen should kick it " old school " . Go to the parking lot setup an arc and play there show plus what ever else they want with all of the local Bones family there to watch and make sure it's loud!! What is the G8 gonna give them a penalty for noise level during someone's show? Oh wait..
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It was nice to see 34 horns at the camp. I have never seen that many horns at a first camp for drum corps in Florida before. Not with Suncoast ( well when I was there ), not with Kiwanis, not with Thunder in 2000/2001 and not with
Teal ( again when I was there in 04/05 ). The Tampa Bay area will be bringing it from the beach again!
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I too will not go to any G8 shows this year and I will pass down the message of what supporting them can cause. I will also spread it to my friends back in Japan marching and teaching.
The eventuality of other corps folding.
Not having members who are involved or inspired by drum corps.
No techs with experience.
Almost all bands that have a descent program are definitely inspired by drum corps weather directly ( a few members are marching in the summer/staff ) or indirectly ( seeing other bands at footbal games that just are incredible which happen to be a " competition " band ).
I saw this when I was marching Suncoast Sound. I lived on one side of Tampa Bay ( Tampa ) where non of the 25 + bands competed and performance levels / show arrangement level was really low but on the other side of the bay ( St. Pete ) Just about every band competed ( not just FBA or State ) and they have incredible programs and of course that level of hardwork and focus and the level of planning from the directors does spread to concert and jazz band and any other ensemble.
Bands in St. Pete have been smoking since the 70's ( thanks to the Fl. Vanguard and Devil Dogs ) but Tampa....hmm...
Now there are band directors that went to school with drum corps / WGI people at U.S.F. and many kids who were in a drum corps in Tampa ( all from a corps that was around for 2 years 2000/2001 ) and you can see the change that has taken place in the last 10 years in 8 or 9 programs..
I bet the G8 is not thinking about there future in that way. In that what they are doing will eventually leave them with no members over about a 10 year period if they could even last that long ....
How is that for growing your market?
A money making suggestion to DCI
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Top scoring drumlines 74 to next year. Maybe they can split it at 91 or 92 and add a few more short segments since most lines ( minus Ralph's ) stopped doing extended drum solos. Updated through the years.