Jak
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Posts posted by Jak
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At Miamisburg, the World guard students do not have to be in the Marching Band. Only the younger kids do. They have several feeder guards (starting at the middle school level). They rehearse ALL the time. I looked at their schedule once online; it's crazy! I don't know how they keep kids in the program. They have rehearsals 6 days a week, sometimes 7, from November through April. No Saturdays off, ever, and only a few Sundays off. It's kind of strange, because there are guards that finish above them every year that don't rehearse anywhere near as much.
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So, it shouldn't be difficult for a guard to be promoted from SO to SW then, assuming the staff is basically the same?
There is a HUGE difference between SO and SW. It is rare to see a group be very successful (I mean in the top half of finals) in their first year in World Class. The move from SA to SO is more managable. It's pretty routine for guards to medal in SA and then medal in SO the very next year. I don't believe that has ever happened in World Class.
Anybody know the highest placement of a Scholastic World guard thier first year in World Class? Kennesaw Mountain was 7th in 2006. Has anyone ever been higher?
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I had a friend that attended the WGI judging academy in 2002. Apparently, there was some controversy in SW that year; several judges believed Pope should have been 2nd. However, Shirlee Whitcomb made it clear to everyone there that Beyer was more intellectual and should be above Pope. Sure enough, when the medals came out, it went Logan, Beyer, Pope.
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Yeah I am going skeptic too.......I'm not saying it couldn't happen but I would hope out of all the judges, someone would say something.
I mean it's guard, you know someone out there is outspoken!
That's why I never believe in the conspiracy theory. Can't nobody in WGI keep a secret!
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See, I wonder about this, because I also see guards who have tremendous turnover in membership do very well from year to year (I'm thinking primarily of Flanagan and James Logan). I always feel that it's the staff more so than the members themselves who bring out the talent in the kids. The kids just need to WANT IT and work for it based on what staff is saying and teaching them. Especially in A class.
As for small group size...I believe something like 10 of the top 15 guards in IA had fewer than 12 members?
Flanagan, Avon, Logan, and most of the other top SW guards have feeder programs. They may have large turn-over in their world guard, but they're not taking 20 kids that have never picked up a flag before and putting them in a World Class show. No matter how good the staff is, only the most talented kids can perform at that level within a few months.
These programs also have the best staffs in the activity, and that doesn't come cheap!
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But what is a "well-constructed" show? What is "enough vocabulary to compete at the top of the class"?
Well trained and squeaky clean I agree with, but really, were all the shows that made finals squeaky clean, and were all the performers in those guards well trained to the same level and using consistent technique?
All the finalists in IA, SA, and SO were very clean. In IO and the World Classes not so much. That's probably becasue there are fewer guards to choose from and a much larger percentage get into finals. In SA you have about a 15% chance to get in, so you really have to stand out. In SW, it's more like 66%. There aren't enough clean guards in SW to fill up finals. Plus, in A Class, excellence is weighted more. You will not be successful in A Class without being nearly flawlessly clean.
As far as well-constructed, just read the sheets. It's about quality and varied staging, seamless transitions, visual musicality, pacing, horizontal and vertical orchestration, etc.
When it comes to vocabulary, that's one area where I do think it helps to study the DVDs. If you want to be at the top of the class, watch the top of the class from the previous year and make notes about what they do. That doesn't mean you copy their choreography, but you can see what kind of phrase length you need, how often they use all parts of the triad, how much they toss, etc. That gives you a good idea of what to expect.
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Santa Clara Vanguard set new standards relative to storytelling and emotion as effect.
Corona set new standards for equipment vocabulary (and finally came close to achieving said vocabulary).
Aimachi set new standards in theatrics, production value, and complexity.
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that's funny that you wrote that. our staff sat in the stands, watching our class finals and made a list of everything we saw that all the groups did. i'll watch the DVD and do the same thing.
that's what our show will be next year... all the things that a group is supposed to do in order to place well. oh, and with a slow, boring soundtrack.
I'll tell you the key to getting in finals: Have a well-constructed show, make sure your kids are trained and squeaky clean, and have enough vocabulary to compete at the top of the class. That's really all there is to it. There's no great secret there, nor is there some conspiracy.
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I have no first-hand knowledge, but I would think it was probably velcro. I can't see how you would tape and untape it that many times that quickly and expect it to hold.
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i agree witgh you till the judges statement,,,lmao...what planet u on?
I have just grown tired of the fact that every time there's a show, no matter who wins, the immediate reaction is "The judges were idiots; so and so was robbed." And I think it's hilarious that every Joe the Plumber out there thinks he knows everything about who should have won. Forget the 5 people who are trained, been through a long approval process, judge a specific caption with specific criteria, and have done it for years. I decided a long time ago to just like who I like and leave the decisions to the people paid to make them.
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I thought tonight was the best IW finals I've ever seen. There were only 3 groups I didn't like (I won't call names). And everyone was really good.
On the other hand, this may have been one of the worst SW finals I've ever seen. It was so BORING! I did love Carmel and Avon, however. Avon was really tasty and nuanced, and not tricky or tossy. Just what I want a SW guard to be. And good for them for finally becoming the bride and no longer the bridesmaid!
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Oh and we cant have WGI Hall of Fame member Mike Gaines dissapointed!!! Aimachi magically improved from 8th in ensemble to 1st in all ensemble captions. I cannot express how dissapointed I am in WGI Judging. I think SCV defiently deserved their placement. Corona was droppy and sloppy in finals and shouldnt have been second. Northeast Independent was absolutely gorgeous!!! They were ROBBED!!!!! I think the placements should have been
SCV
NEI
Corona
Aimachi
What do you mean "all ensemble captions"? There's only one ensemble caption and one ensemble judge.
Northeast was very good tonight. Their purple flag feature was probably the cleanset thing all weekend.
I certainly know who I liked the best, but I wouldn't question the judges. They may make mistakes, but they are professionals who know what they are doing.
Aimachi was my favorite, by the way.
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FYI, these scores and placements (like the ones posted on wgi.org) are not all correct. Check the recaps for the correct ones.
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I disagree. I thought they were really wonderful. In addition to being beautiful movers and great on thier equipment, the whole thing is just very forward. It's very theatrical and the production qualities are absolutely top-notch. They're also one of the cleanest groups I've seen. The talk at Headquarters last night among the WGI "establishment" was shock that they weren't in the top 2. Apparently they were 8th in ensemble and Mike Gaines was quite dissapointed.
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They were GREAT at Centerville tonight!
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I believe that Sebastienne will be up half the night tonight Bedazzling his lovely magenta pant suit for finals, steaming the teal chinchilla-trim track suit which he will wear to all prelim events, and packing his flat iron, hair dryer, Loreal shampoo and conditioner, and Designer Imposter fragrance for his big trip to Dayton. Look for him to make a red-carpet entrance on his scooter at World Class Finals. (He's also packing his red carpet).
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Wait a second....
I am relatively well known in this activity. I've performed and taught in WGI and DCA. AND I'm that Community Admin for THIS FORUM!!!
Yet my kids placed 7th at their championships Saturday night (and deservedly so)
Sometimes it helps to know people, but don't generalize!
I think if you'll read my post, you'll see I said we don't get an unfair competitive advantage. But the officials are nice to us and talk to us because they are friends. There are people in the activity who are snobs, and can be very rude unless you are connected with the right people.
I remember standing in line for sound check before WGI finals at the Dayton arena a few years ago. The sound people and somebody else (Contest Director or something) were there and were being pretty rude to people. When it was my turn they made some huffy comment to me about how I was gonna have to wait and then proceeded to ignore me. Just then Tommy Keenum walked in to the arena. The people at the sound table were going ga-ga. "Oh, look who it is." "He looks great." "I wonder who he's here with." As Tommy walked by, he gave me a hug, asked how I was doing, and wished me luck. Well I certainly had their attention then! They were all "Would you like to listen to it now? Is that ok? Is there anything else we can do?" It was so funny!
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At a recent regional I sat and listened to a designer who has had teams do well and not do so well in the A class. After his expanation of "being tired of it" he said so this year "I sold out" and look at us we will most likley be in the top of the class. He went on to say that he will continue to not challenge himself creatively and will continue to give them what they want a pretty ballad with soft smiles. His kids are not frustrated. It's amazing what you hear in line for the concession stand.
I know there's some truth in that, and there are definitely some bad judges out there. However, when your group doesn't do as well as you would like, the easiest thing in the world is to say "Oh, the judges just don't get it." Too often lack of preparation, insufficent training, poor design qualities, and a whole multitude of other sins is covered by a "We're just too intellectual/artistic/outside the box" attitude. If I don't get the results I want, I've found it's more productive to think about what I could have done differently than to think about who I can blame for it.
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I think the part about not wearing a unit's insignia is funny. Can you imagine somebody showing up to judge WGI World Class Finals wearing a Blessed Sac shirt or something?
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Over the years, there have always been a few (or more) judges who are real stinkers. A frequent WGI judge got banned from our state circuit - but not for sex. Their crime was just egregiously bad judging, by any standard, and unrelated to any kind of conspicuous affiliation. And I would much rather face a judging panel of peers than the usual loose cannons we too frequently get.
Although WGI judges do seem to have a penchanct for sex crimes. At least three names come to mind...
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I'm afraid I did rather poorly on the quiz. I could have sworn Sebastienne loved dusty rose and the Dress Barn!
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I saw this at a regional this year also with a recently resigned PRES...you would think the Queen MUM had arrived and how they were kissing BUTT and earlier wouldnt give others the time of day. SHAME SHAME !!!!
but ooooo so typical......
This behavior is certainly common. I teach an SA group, but am fortunate to teach with someone who is very well connected in the activity. There's no doubt that we get treated well, both in our circuit and at WGI events. I'm certainly not saying that we get an unfair advantage competitively, but when the Contest Director, T&P guy, Regional Director, Chief Judge, Sound guy, etc. are all old friends, they're going to be a little nicer. It's human nature. The truth is (sad though it may be), one of the best things you can do for your program is get chummy with the big shots in the activity.
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So I fear that if Aimachi is on the same level, they will take the easy way out and go with the tie.
anyone else think this is a possibility?
Well, the judges can't "take the easy way out" because they are not allowed to give ties. If a tie happens, it's always a numerical event, never the decision of 1 judge that 2 groups were the same.
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Ok I get it in World class we want to see new, fresh and different. We want to see groups do tricks we haven't seen. However, there have been a few colorguards that have attempted this and IMO failed. When you have a line of 8 attempt and 3 achieve by any standards that is a F. Where does the line get drawn? When I see that moment happen in a world class show it just reminds me of when we used to get together in someones back yard and go "look what I can do" and none of us could do it but maybe once.
World class needs to push the boundries of technique and training also.
Well said! I don't care about seeing tricks, especially if you're not very good at them. In World Class, I want to see finesse, nuance, control, and a seamless combination of body and equipment. I love groups like Avon, Center Grove (not so much this year, though), Pride, and Aimachi; groups that are not known for crazy tricks.
World Guards Folding?
in CGP General Discussion
Posted
WGI doesn't allow housing in schools anymore due to some legal liability issues. Some groups kind of get around it by doing sort of "black-market" housing that's not affiliated with WGI.