Senagod
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Posts posted by Senagod
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try tob-info.net I'm assuming these are all TIA schools?
Mike, you've been in Texas too long!
Those aren't TIA schools. All those schools are in New York and I believe they're in the Mid-York circuit.
Although I can see why you might think that...Baldwinsville did do TOB one year back in our high school days, and Susquehanna Valley from the name does sound like it would belong in PA, but it doesn't.
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Ummm. . .I can't remember if a scholastic guard has been disqualified at WGI Finals recently, but I can remember the last one I recall being Eastridge 2000 in Scholastic World. Such a shame. . .I really like that show, it was very avant-garde.. . .performing with gas masks on, with large breathing tubes coming out from them. The long flexible black pipes they slung with flour in them for 'effect' I really wish there was a video of it somewhere, but WGI banned them from also being on the video as part of their punishment.
Anyone else remember this show?
I remember that show very well.
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Good admin would look at the situation of a kid doing drum corps, and do everything they could to make it work for the student and the band director. That's why I suggested taking it up with admin before leaving for tour if you have a stupid band director like that.
Situations are different, Mike, and only really awful teachers and admin take the monolithic approach you're talking about. Of course every band director can do what they want, but the one the OP is talking about is a complete idiot, IMO. Sorry if you disagree. Most public school science teachers would be fine with a student missing their class to attend a science workshop or camp...many would even go so far as to find a way to give the student credit for analogous work they're doing while gone. Same thing with a computer teacher.
True, but I understand where Mike's coming from. There are parents these days that are quick to demand everything for their kids, so I could see a parent saying that if it's okay for a kid to miss band camp because of drum corps, then it's okay for their kid to miss band camp for a family vacation and heaven help anybody who tells them it's not okay. It's because of parents like that that some band directors and administrators end up making rules like that. It's awful, but that's what happens.
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Same situation here. I auditioned for Crossmen, which I had to pay out of pocket, and after the first camp my grandmother (who raised me) said from now on I needed to find my own way to camp...a 3 + hour trip one way and pay for everything myself, plus save up for college. I wish I could have afforded to do DCI, but that was a long time ago, and I was making about $4 an hour working over the summers.
As for Stanford thing-- how about my family made HALF of what they are saying now they will give free tuition to (what $60,000 a year?) and I still had to pay full tuition and room and board! College won out over DCI because I felt a good education in the classroom would take me further with what I wanted to do as a career.
You're lucky. My mom would've locked me in the house before I even made it to an audition! This is the same woman that refused to pay my $40 application fee to any colleges in big cities because she didn't want her child going to college in a large city.
You should've applied to a higher priced school. Syracuse gave me way more aid than Penn State or Maryland. Can you imagine today? We'd be getting free tuition and free room and board at Stanford, or we could go to Yale or Harvard. It's funny that these places think that low income is making less than $100,000 a year. Where we come from, if your family makes $80,000 a year, you're rich! Ah, the joys of growing up in central PA.
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The "conversation" is actually doing a good job of cementing a few points.
First, that this "question" is inflammatory. It is simply an impossible and unquantifiable argument.
I didn't say the idea isn't noble. But nobility is a concept, not a flesh-and-blood reality, that gets to be defined by the person making the argument. They decide who, what, where, when and to what degree and do it in a way that somehow establishes some non-existent moral high ground where no other opinions need apply. That's what makes this kind of conversation impossible.
We act as a mouthpiece for mystery people we've never met, define their problems for them and then provide the solution that WE desire? And do it without making so much as a phone call or neighborhood visit to talk to REAL people and find out what THEY need, want or desire. In my experience, most of them want to be left alone.
PETA does this kind of thing. Does anyone really know what a dolphin wants? But "well-meaning people" feel free to define the argument and speak on the dolphin's behalf. And it only leads to frustration, rather than understanding. I would bet the dolphin just wants to be LEFT ALONE!
Second, that stuff happens, limits exist, and that we dont always get the outcome we might desire. Well, gee whiz. That sounds like LIFE.
There are limitations in resources, effort, information and support in EVERYTHING we do. This isn't a negative.
Limitations are a strong driver to achievement. Whose achievement? One's OWN.
And "I didn't know how to achieve" or "I didn't have all the information" is a good way of avoiding accountability for choices. Or "I could've done X" or "I should've done Y" or "my parents didn't do Z" is akin to building in today's excuse for tommorrows failure.
Here's the difference...we can't DO everything! Every time we CHOOSE to do something (or nothing) with our limited time, limited resources and limited energy, in effect we CHOOSE not to do ALL THE OTHER THINGS. That's called need and value-based priority decision making.
And no one can do that for you better than you do it yourself.
This was fun. Fire away.
Good points. I'll throw in one thing, though. It's kind of hard to need, want, or desire something if you've never seen it. Economically disadvantaged students of all races aren't getting exposed to music in the public schools. If you've never had something, of course you're not going to want it. Would you argue that music shouldn't be taught in the schools?
I'm coming from the position that music should be taught in all schools. Once that is achieved, then if economically disadvantaged people choose not to march corps, that's fine. At least there was an opportunity for education.
And I feel I can speak about economically disadvantaged people because my family was pretty disadvantaged. It's a good thing I was smart and got a great financial aid package from a good school or else I'd still be in my hometown with 5 kids and either working at the Sheetz or unemployed like everybody else that stayed there. With that, plus the year I spent working in the Philly schools, I think I have some experience.
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Everyone might be welcome if they show up at the door with enough cash, but how about letting more people know about the party? What about those who can't afford the tickets to the party? I wouldn't exactly describe someone who's never heard of DCI, never had the opportunity to learn an instrument at school, and/or can't afford it as "choosing" not to participate. Is that person really not participating because of "cultural differences and rational choices?"
No one's suggesting forcing anyone to march against their will in order to create some sort of artificially induced diversity, and just because he uses a percentage to make his case doesn't mean anyone's suggesting that corps use some sort of minority quota system. I guess I missed the part that implies we should feel bad about those numbers. To me, saying that DCI isn't perfect and could do a better job recuriting members from different racial or socioeconomic backgrouds isn't suggesting wrongdoing, just that maybe there's improvments that could be made in this aspect.
I don't beleive that noting a disparity in minority participation levels of an activity and questioning how to help close the gap as "patronizing" or "guilt mongering." I'd call it sound managment.
Amen. My "choice" not to do DCI wasn't much of a choice. It was either do drum corps or go to college. I consider myself lucky that I even heard about DCI when I was in high school because of a band director that would show us tapes.
DCI or the individual corps could do things to encourage music in the inner-city schools. It doesn't have to be much. Even the smallest things can make a difference.
And back to the Stanford discussion, can I just add that I'm so jealous of college students today? All these colleges offering free tuition to students whose families could make way more than my family did...where was this when I was in school?
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I actually went to the same high school as the deal sisters! :)
97X off the air breaks my heart, but you can still hear them online. . . .they are up and running at http://woxy.lala.com/ I listen to it everyday! I get lots of great colorguard show ideas from music I hear on there!!!
OMG thank you so much for that link! The last time I checked out WOXY online a few years back, they were saying you had to pay for the stream, so I gave up hope. Happy days are here again.
And Mike, was it the mention of The Afghan Whigs or Sonic that gave me away? LOL
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If we're talking famous folks, let's not forget that Kim Deal of The Pixies and The Breeders, along with her twin sister Kelley, is a product of Dayton. Hey, they're famous in my world. The whole area of Columbus/Dayton/Cincinnati was putting out some great alternative bands in the '90s. The Breeders, Guided by Voices, Scrawl, Brainiac, The Afghan Whigs...and it still kills me that 97X is gone forever.
As for food, those of you who have not been lucky enough to experience the greatness that is Sonic can find one between Dayton and Cincinnati off the interstate. Yum!
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I have to agree that the music education or lack thereof in inner-city schools has a great deal to do with why we see a lack of diversity in drum corps.
I worked at a public magnet school in Philadelphia that takes kids from grades 5-12 (Masterman). They have an orchestra that does a few concerts and plays for the school musical. That's about it, and it's more than most Philly schools have. A few Philly schools have jazz bands. There's a great program at one of the middle schools that has a competing guard and dance team. They've partnered with a community group that puts out a junior percussion line and a novice dance team. But once those kids are out of middle school, they have nowhere to go. There are next to no competitive high school programs in the city. The only school that I can think of that has a marching band is a Catholic school. Another Catholic school has an indoor drumline.
Drum corps would be a great thing to take the place of what inner-city kids should be getting in the schools. When Masterman, the number one ranked public high school in the state and 53rd in the nation, doesn't have enough books for all of the kids and the building is falling apart, you know that what little money is available is going to go for things other than music.
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Come on...I was king of fundraising in high school...never paid for anything out of pocket in high school once I figured out that fundraising could pay for it all! Lessons, spring trips, accessories, band camp, etc. Had I known about drum corps as a freshman I would have marched four years for free! It can be done.
Unless one sits on their butt on the couch all day! But then that's why so many around here never marched, so why should that surprise me? (no offense, non-marchers)
In general, this thread has completely missed the point, thus discussion is on Mars, not on-topic. Just sayin'.
I certainly did my fair share of fundraising, all the way back to when I was selling Girl Scout cookies and calendars. I never had to pay for Girl Scout camp in the summertime. Also, I sold a ton of stuff in band.
However, how many times can you hit up the same pool of people and businesses for money in an economically depressed area until the well runs dry? You run into compassion fatigue, and it then becomes a matter of priorities. People in your hometown can see your band and know what you do. You're invested in the community.
I still don't think that you can raise thousands of dollars for drum corps in an economically depressed area. Hundreds of dollars? Yes. Not thousands of dollars. The money simply isn't there.
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I was agreeing with you, until I got to this part...
In addition, any kid living anywhere in the states that uses the excuse that they can't afford to participate is simply not making an effort or not going about it in the right way (this goes back to management, which should provide solid guidance). For a kid to not be able to, within 1 whole year, raise a couple thousand dollars within their local community, to represent their community on a national level with a world class not-for-profit performing arts activity, something is wrong.What? I take it you've never lived in a poor town in your life. Do you really think some kid from, say, West Philadelphia, is going to be able to get his neighbors and local businesses to contribute thousands of dollars that they don't have for this kid to participate in an activity they've never heard of? Even if this kid managed to raise some money, he or she would be hoping and praying that they don't get robbed once the word is out that they've got money.
I grew up in a small town in the mountains, and I highly doubt that the people in my hometown would come up with thousands of dollars...certainly not for drum corps. If you had a sick kid, maybe you could get a couple hundred bucks if somebody started a drive for you.
I'm sorry for ranting, but it just amazes me how people who have probably never been poor in their lives or known any poor people think it's so #### easy to raise money for things.
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With the soccer team example I used, I think 50,000 people paid somewhere around $50 each to purchase a team that would be the equivalent of a single A or a double A team in minor league baseball.
I doubt anything like this could work in drum corps. First off, you can't really purchase a drum corps. But it's an interesting idea. You would have to find a corps that would be willing to take the money under the condition that the people providing the money have a say.
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Or, to use another example from soccer, the fans could purchase a team (corps). My husband is part of a group of fans that bought Ebbsfleet United, a team in England. It's not a Premiere League team, but the fans vote on where the money goes, what the uniform would be, etc.
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In order to make this post not ungodly long, I'll break it up into basic blocks.
Percussion starts at 10am
Polytech
Northeast Catholic
Millford Mill
Lebanon
Penncrest
Titans
William Penn
Eastern
Sterling
Blazers
Egg Harbor Twp MS concert
Dance Teams and Twirlers start at noon
Millford Mill dance team
Starlites Junior and Novice twirlers
All-Stars Junior, Novice, A and World twirlers
Boyertown Legionettes Twirlers
Guards start at 1:45
Rascals cadet guard
Lebanon Middle School
Independent Junior
Starlites
Buckaroos
Independent Novice A
Fuzion
Scholastic Novice A
Polytech
Radnor
William Penn
Millford Mill
St Marks
Avon Grove
Scholastic Intermediate A
Sterling
Cab Calloway
Springfield
Independent Intermediate A
Cpex
Hanna Guard
Milton Hershey
Paseo
Millersville University Villa Pirata
Scholastic A
Plymouth Whitemarsh
Methacton
Matawan
Independent A
Delazure
Independent World
Apex
Awards are at 5:45
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I watched our dvd's the other night to watch this show specifically and def. did not notice a louder "under god" as some have mentioned.
For what it's worth, I did not go to finals that year, nor do I have the videos. Anything I'm talking about is based off the West Chester, PA show that my husband and I went to. Trust me, there's no way my husband would go to finals! (although he has made random comments about going to Indy...but I think he'd do other stuff in town while I'm watching the show)
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Your memory is skewed. That portion of the pledge was no more loud than any other.
Could have been coming from the audience. I was talking about this show and this thread today with my husband and the first thing he said was "I didn't like that they screamed the under god part." But I don't remember the members themselves screaming it. It could very well have been the audience saying the pledge and emphasizing the under god part.
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That might be your feeling, but the pandering label was put on this show from the beginning by many people.
That may be so, but that's other people, not me. I loved the show in the beginning, and I still like the show except for the pledge part.
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I don't get the whole pander thing. Is Phantom pandering by playing loud to get "points" from the crowd? Is BD pandering by playing jazz? If they were pandering, it obviously did not work too well.
We felt that it was pandering because it was put in right when the rulings about the pledge was a hot news story. Had it been a part of the show from the beginning of the season, I wouldn't have had a problem with it at all. IMHO, using a current event to get a rise out of the crowd is pandering. BD and Phantom are not pandering by playing jazz or playing loud because that's their tradition, not a hot news story.
Who knows...maybe George and company were planning on putting in the pledge all along. The timing of it, however, seemed off.
***edited for bad grammar.
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What if the person holding the video camera was outside the 40's? lol sorry
You've got a point there, but a good court reporter would make sure that he or she is positioned right next to the people talking. It's what we do for a living.
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I have a feeling even a video of the event would not change many peoples' minds. We would mostly still watch that with our t(a)inted lenses.
Maybe a video with good audio and a court reporter to provide a transcript would help!
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It was A LOT better before they changed it... There is a recording from Orlando perhaps that is floating around the net... you should check it out. after hearing the original, I felt they ruined it with the anti-climactic pledge.
I fully agree. I saw the show at the end of June (pre-pledge) and I absolutely loved it. Later in the season I took my husband to the West Chester show to see it because I was sure he'd love it. They added the pledge part and my husband and I felt it was cheesy and pandering.
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My husband has never liked or understood drum corps or indoor guard, for that matter. I figure there's two reasons for this. He went to a all-boy prep school that maybe had a concert band if they were lucky, and he's a punk rock boy. He calls all indoor shows "Tori Amos pajama parties". I took him to DCI East in 1995 and the only show he liked was Cadets because it was about World War II. The last DCI show I took him to was 2002 because Cadets were kind of referencing the 1995 show and I figured he would like it. He didn't because at that point they threw in the Pledge of Allegiance business and he called it cheesy (which I agreed.)
When I started marching (DCA and indoor guard), I told him that I would like it if he attended one show a season. He would always ask what time I would be on so he could get there right before I went on and leave right after I was done. He surprised me in 2003 when he actually saw just about every corps at the show he was at. Of course, he didn't have anything kind to say about any of the corps, but he made the effort.
I do have to say that while he doesn't like this activity, he's understanding of my love for it. He had no problem with my going to Orlando for DCI finals without him and he only complained a little bit when I was marching. He can tell when a guard's not clean, and he understands when I get on a rant about Hopkins. Now, if I can only get him to stop calling every unit, no matter what it is, a "guard", things will be good.
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How about Philly (yes I know it was said already but you have a couple of stadiums to chose from) or Pittsburgh maybe? Or you could play at Penn State's football stadium. That thing has got to be huge.
What stadiums in Philly do you have to choose from? All there is is Franklin Field (been there already, parking and logistics were nightmares) and Lincoln Field (good luck being able to afford that).
Penn State's stadium is indeed huge, but there has to be a reason why no events are held there other than football.
I'm really hoping that the PA state government coughs up the $45 million so Philly can get an MLS team and a 25,000 seat stadium built in Chester. It would be perfect for so many things.
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will the upper deck finally be open again this coming summer? anyone know?
I don't think so. Last I heard Allentown school district (the owners of J Birney Crum) did not have the money to make the repairs. Granted, that was a while ago.
Still Looking for Baldwinsville,Susahanna Valley and Mohonasen
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