[SCV's show was an epic musical fail.]

7 hours ago, SWriverstone said:

There's a well-known and studied psychological phenomenon called the mere-exposure effect (also called the familiarity principle). It means people develop a preference for things merely because they are familiar with them. Put more simply, if you listen to lousy music long enough, you'll start thinking it's good. (This isn't opinion—it's fact.) 

It's clear that DCI audiences are suffering from this effect in a big way. Witness what DCI judges considered the pinnacle of shows in 2018 by awarding it a championship (SCV). Now I get that drum corps is more than just music—it's "art" (though I could make a case for why it really isn't, even at the highest levels). Drill, choreography, difficulty, etc. are all part of the activity. But the emotional underpinnings of any show are the music. You aren't going to be swept to emotional highs by a single high rifle toss or a big two-handed rimshot. The music matters—a lot. 

I've spent countless hours of my life studying, listening to, and performing music of all kinds. I have a BM degree from Juilliard—which doesn't make me more knowledgeable than anyone else—it simply certifies that I'm very knowledgeable about music—and what distinguishes good music from bad music. Contrary to popular belief, music isn't "in the ear of the beholder." It's entirely possible to judge it objectively and even place it (roughly) on a universal scale from bad to good. (If you're someone who believes the quality of music is entirely subjective, you're a hypocrite—because you logically must say the same about everything in life—which I'm sure you don't.)

So on to SCV's show: I've watched it several times. Not dozens or hundreds of times—because remember the mere-exposure effect? I'm not going to destroy my judgement by watching it every day for the entire summer (like the corps members and staff do). The first criterion for great music is that—on the first listen—it moves you. If it doesn't, then it could easily be argued the music has failed. Some might argue that it's not just the music in drum corps that should move you, but the collective experience of music, drill, and choreography. Fair enough. But nobody would argue that the music has a far greater impact on a show's general effect than either drill or choreography. And drill and choreography don't even come close to having the emotional impact of music.

I watched SCV's show with an open heart and mind. I love SCV! I always have. And I give every show the benefit of the doubt because I want to be moved emotionally. When I watch a drum corps show, I want to have tears in my eyes. I don't give a flip about how cleanly a difficult move is executed. It's interesting, but that will never move me to tears. (That's a bit like trying to be moved to tears by a brilliantly-designed coffeepot—it ain't gonna happen.) While watching (and listening) to SCV's show, I paid attention. I focused on the melody (or absence of it), the harmonies, the transitions, the tempo changes—I sat back and let it wash over me without judgement.

It left me cold and feeling completely flat.

After hearing it the first time, I thought "Okay, I'm just not familiar with it." (There's that principle again!) So I watched/listened again. And again. And in what is a testament to the absolute sterility of the show's music, familiarity didn't help at all. Every time I listened to SCV's show, it was just as pointless and unemotional as the previous listening. Here's what I noticed, repeatedly:

• There were no discernable, memorable melodies in the show—and by melodies, I mean a sustained melodic line lasting at least 8 bars (at the same tempo) that very clearly moves from point A to point B in an emotional arc. (Think of just about any Beatles song, any Rodgers & Hammerstein musical, or any Beethoven symphony.) Even after repeated views, I couldn't sing along with 2 bars of this show (and I have a good ear for remembering melodies).

• There was no sense of a grounded tempo anywhere in the show—by this, I mean a chance to get into a groove—to feel the pulse of the music and actually have a chance to tap your foot or rock gently along with it. Tempo changes were so frequent they suggested a kind of musical schizophrenia—arrangements driven entirely by the drill and perceived difficulty.

NOTE: Even some of the most brilliant, avante-garde compositions in music history hold to a steady tempo for at least 16-32 bars—I'm thinking of pieces like Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps or Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra orJohn Cage's Third Construction.

• There was no overall sense of continuity—no feeling of going on a journey from the beginning of the show to the logical conclusion. Despite the flowery descriptions creative staff come up with to justify their shows, SCV's show was quite literally like a long series of 1- or 2-second cuts in a video, each one jarring, seemingly designed to be as abrupt as possible.

This was, plain and simple, an epic musical fail. (And therefore, a fail of a show—in spite of winning.)

Some of you reading this will think I just don't get it. Okay—I'll humor you: I get cubist paintings. I get architecture by Frank Lloyd Wright. And I get music by Steve Reich, Igor Stravinsky, Vincent Persichetti, John Cage, and countless other "challenging" composers. I have a very sophisticated musical ear. My favorite composer is Charles Ives—I've listened to his Concord Sonata hundreds of times—and every time I hear something I didn't hear before. (And trust me—Ives' Concord Sonata is light years ahead of any DCI show in sophistication.)

Some of you will think I'm just an old fart who doesn't understand current music. At this I just shake my head and laugh: have you noticed that people still love The Beatles, Beethoven, Mississippi John Hurt, and Joni Mitchell? This music isn't any less relevant and popular today than it was 25 or 100 years ago.

When it comes to music, you can't get rid of the fundamental elements that make music great without destroying it:

1. It moves you emotionally on the FIRST listen.
2. It is memorable—you can actually hum or sing some of it after one hearing—and ALL of it after several hearings.
3. It has a steady, consistent pulse that you can slip into and feel—in a sustained way—while you listen.

SCV's show had NONE of these qualities on the first hearing (or second, third, or fourth). which is why I call it an epic fail.

What disturbs me even more than SCV performing this show (who has a long history of connecting emotionally with audiences through great music) is the fact that DCI judges apparently reward this "music" that is devoid of any characteristics of good music. Yes, I know—they're judging more than the music (I already acknowledged this), but the judging community has lost its way. Clearly judges are more focused on difficulty (in the form of chaotic, disjointed shows packed with tempo changes and 32nd-note runs) than they are on emotionally connecting with audiences.

---
In many ways, I guess we've gotten what we deserve. It's widely acknowledged that young people today have an average attention span of seconds. Maybe show designers are catering to this? Maybe we—as an American species—have lost the ability to focus on something more than 10 seconds without needing an abrupt change? Listen to pop music today and it's clear that it exists on a level far lower in intelligence than it ever has in the past (just look at all the hit songs about nothing more than partying). Even the Academy Awards have officially decided movie audiences are dumb–they've created a new Oscar for "Best Popular Film."  (Because a popular film can't be intelligent or have depth.)

If anyone out there disagrees with my premise that SCV's show was a musical fail (and I'm sure hundreds or thousands do), feel free to explain (hopefully in more than single-syllable words) why you think it was great. Tell me how this show moved you emotionally. And as proof, record yourself singing some part of SCV's show and post the MP3 here. :-) (Corps members and staff who performed/arranged the show aren't allowed–your impartial judgement is long gone).

Scott

Slow down rook. You should try posting in either of these places vs here on DCP.

reddit.com/r/iamverysmart

or

reddit.com/r/iamverybadass

Take your pick.

[Alabama A&M]

7 minutes ago, RetiredMusTeach said:

Mike - how did the Vanderbilt band do?  I have never seen one of their shows. 

I haven't seem them either. But, I am guessing, not well in comparison.
I watched a minute of this video and saw a Vandy kid carrying a marching euphonium.
So they probably played some lame BS with tone quality and time and stuff.

[2017 Mini-corps lineup?]

[JOBE-THIRDCOAST]

JOBE at Soundsport

[JOBE-THIRDCOAST]

The original, California-based JOBE group isn't riding on anyone's coattails. They are a tribute ensemble made up of a lot of Jim's former students, professional musicians, and drum corps veterans. The wouldn't do anything to sully the Ott name, and they sound fantastic when they perform. That's why this Third Coast crap is so frustrating.

I am not merely going off of the WI contingent. I have seen videos of the West Coast version.

And I heard their combined forces in person at Soundsport last year.

[JOBE-THIRDCOAST]

Seems to be a West Coasty thing to act all coy Fran.

Show up, kick ###, take names, do your thing. If you are packin' something, there's no need for the obtuseness.

Thing is, these people are from Chicagoland. Hence, the "Third Coast" reference.

They are riding the coattails of a group that is riding the coattails of the Jim Ott name/brand.

And frankly they are all, East/West/Third whatever, doing a #### poor job of it.

It actually offends me and almost everyone else I know that they are trading on that name with the ramshackle product they put out.

Let the DCI high brass trophy and recordings of lines he taught to stand for his legacy.

Or stay home and play in the VA basement until it is fit for public presentation.

[JOBE-THIRDCOAST]

Oh don't worry about our crowds that we have hit, last year at dci semis the # was 10,000 +

That didn't suck, we just thought that adding DCA would be fun.

Maybe not. I for sure know that coming out east for DCA would not be cheap.

Well see.

Wait? "We'll see?"

I just went and bought 6 sets of tickets to every DCA event Labor day weekend for me and the five other people who care anything about JOBE,

and now you say "maybe" you'll come out?

Jeesh, I should have just waited to see if you were going to show up at the minicorps contest. You don't have to buy a ticket to that event, it is free.

But, then again, the minicorps contest ranking is according to scores, which are decided on by professional adjudicators.

It's not a clap show, so I am not sure how well JOBE would fare in that venue.

Perhaps you all can come out and do pop-up blasting sessions on the streets of Rochester for inebriated passersby?

And if you follow V.O.R's advice and hook up with "The Edge", I'll bet you could get those Keno wheels they used out of storage.

Drunk folks ate them up last time. I think it was the spinning aspect.

[JOBE-THIRDCOAST]

I have been waiting to buy tickets, and your cryptic posts have gotten me, and I assume tens of others super excited!

At which venue will you be bringing your sliver medal winning program for us to get our ear drums shattered at DCA?

At the stadium? Or at the mini-corps contest?

[DCA '15, 35 corps, great performances, not-so-great attendance]

This topic has generated a lot of new thoughts. Certainly, we all had quite a chance for input and filled 4 or more pages in a hurry.

While we digest some and consider the future, clearly the most important point (IN MY OPINION) is that someone said that people in Rochester weren't sure it was still there.

I can remember as a teenager in the 1960s, seeing the busses pass through Paterson with the advertising both outside the bus and on the inside overhead as well for The Dream Contest. There were also billboards all over this area (North Jersey) for The Dream. Maybe DCA needs some placard advertising in the Rochester area. Maybe the member corps could distribute the placards all over their own geographic areas as well..... perhaps window shop posters which are split between the member corps own contest and the DCA Finals on the other half ? Cheap to print IN VOLUME and FREE to put in store fronts...... digital transmission and printing would enable DCA to send half of a poster to the member corps for them to add the other half and print...... I'll bet every corps has one member who in employed in the print or communications industry.

And then there's free local radio interviews.......... the list goes on..... free or inexpensive

I hear you can get these pretty cheap at auction.

[My open letter to DCI/DCP...]

I think we can all agree, that says it all.

[Blue Devils on top...really?]

You can't even tell is BD is clean to begin with because everytime they hit a form with straight lines that all starts swaying and making it ripple so even if someone was out of line you couldn't tell.

Wouldn't that be considered good visual design? And be scored accordingly?

And will someone let me know when Crown hits a straight line cleanly (that isn't a halt,) or do I just have to watch Cadets to see something like that?

Love Crown's sound and show, but visually, and by that I mean strictly marching, it is a bit of a hot mess. The body positioning stuff is good.

[Inside BD 360 trailer]

I haven't even seen the video, it was removed before I could see it, but I love this thread THIS MUCH!

The level of butthurt in this thread epic.

BD has always had swagger. They win a lot.

If you don't like it, create a program that will consistently crush them.

If not, I got no sympathy for you.

And you know what you'll be saying - a bunch of losers sittin' around in a bar...

'Oh yeah. I used to be in a drum corps. It's a tough racket.'

[How much does the yamaha euph weigh?]

You know the answer.

"If you have to ask..."

[Sorry for the insanely noob question but....]

Let me Google that for you...

or

The Middle Horn Leader

[It begins....]

Only a few spots left:

3rd Soprano (1)

2nd Mellow (1)

3rd Bar/Euph (1)

Electric Bass gtr. (1)

These holes will NOT LAST LONG... so PM if u r interested - no dues except whatever travel costs u incur to/from reh's n showz.

****G Bugles ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

****Experts ONLY - reh's are to lock in the ensemble and discuss EMOTION.... not music theory, if u need to be reminded that your open 5th needs to be 5 cents sharp or if I ask u to play a G-Pentatonic scale and look at me like Scooby-Doo... then this is not the group for you.

****1st rehearsal will be on 4/21/12 in southern Orange County, CA, USA ..... only those who have been invited by me or on a solid recommendation will know the exact location.

****GLA Kickoff party will be on Friday 4/20 (thats a COINCIDENCE I SWEAR) LOC8XN TBD.

THX ALISHA!!!!

Chris Welke,

CEO, Sr. Media Law Analyst, EP, Lonely Faction Prodxns (a non-profit org.)

Director, The Greenlight Advantage Minicorps

Since you are obviously going to be the very definition of "old skool", may we also assume that the sweet electric bass guitar will also be pitched in "G"?

Cuz we all noez that only the "G" electric bass can provide the proper amount of "Bow Chicka Bow Wow" for a G-Petatonic scale.

There's no skool like the old skool, yo!

p.s. If I play Mellow, but I have a intense tone quality, could I just go ahead and play Mello instead? U know, to avoid any confusion.

p.s.s. Rut-Roh.

[Multi Phonics]

Since I am currently unable to private lessons and am well ahead of my peers, I have been trying to expand my musical abilities on my own!

So I've been teaching myself to do the whole multi phonics thing, and so far I can Play a Bb, hum the Bb and slide up to a third, 5th, and sometimes

I can pull off an octave. Anybody have some good tips?

Believe it or not this is not meant to be douchey.

Practice it. You will get better.

[D&BC on America's Got Talent(?)]

Oh - and for the other complaints about the 'quality' of performance on that video - It was an ENCORE! Like any encore, especially a spontaneous one, it was less controlled than the first. Big deal...

If anyone was actually there for the original performance and has a complaint about it, I would at least consider that opinion...

I was there.

The high points of the both performances, in this order.

4. Joey sounded very good.

3. Roland sounded very good.

2. That one girl that had dark underwear under her white spandex pants. Bow-chicka-bow-wow!

1. That sweet electric bass providing the Bow-chicka-bow-wow.

*Honorable mention. Tuba horn angles. In both performances

[Who will play the new Tama line?]

A ford Escort can run for hundreds of thousands of miles with a fraction of the upkeep costs. Analogy fail.

But then you are stuck driving a Ford Escort for hundreds of thousands of miles.

[Should Scouts bring back Empire State of Mind next year?]

...I watched most of the Youtube recordings, and forgive me Scouts fans, but the corps overblew the tune to the point that sometimes the quality of the sound was almost obscene. I know they can play it better than that.

...I also think the drill could be upgraded.

I watched most of the Youtube recordings, and forgive me Scouts fans, but the corps overblew the tune to the point that sometimes the quality of the sound was almost obscene. I know they can play it better than that.

You made your judgments about how their hornline sounded based on the sound quality that youtube videos played through your computer provide?

Be careful, or you will torpedo your own credibility on all things musical.

I also think the drill could be upgraded.

That is something that you can tell by watching a YouTube video. And I agree with you that their visual program leaves something to be desired.

[Surprised Drum Corps is Still Around]

And the costs that corps have that they didn't back in the day when your show was $4, $18.00 adjusted for inflation.

Insurance out the ying-yang.

Music licensing rights to be paid yearly.

Paid Staff.

Food for corps members.

Fancy Stadiums with high rents.

A fleet of vehicles to fuel and have driven.

Guard Equipment of various types.

An entire pit's worth of percussion to purchase.

Ticketing companies taking a slice out of your ticket sales.

A professionally run governing body.

As well as...

Many, many more things for people to do other than attend the corps show, especially in smaller towns.

So, in the end, $25 is cheap for the entertainment a corps show provides.

[ENOUGH!]

For all of the folks complaining about this corps or that one not moving up in the ranks, and the design/instuctional teams that somehow let everyone down,

I have this bit of wisdom that I heard from a DCI HOF member who is still actively instructing a top 12 corps.

When asked about how his corps was doing in on June 1, 2011 he said "Great!"

When asked about their chances competitively this last season he was not as positive. The reasoning?

He said, "Who are we going to beat?"

A practical, and truthful perspective on competition.

[An odd observation about DCA...]

Was that the session held on the grassy knoll?

HH

Nope.

[Drum Corps Fire Hazard...]

I'm not sure if they are still around, but back in my day we had these things called books. I could spend hours with them on the road.

Didn't have to charge them. Didn't take batteries. Never got stolen, and everyone would trade them around when they finished.

I'm not sure if they are still around, but back in my day we had these things called books Boyfriends/Girlfriends. I could spend hours with them on the road.

Didn't have to charge them. Didn't take batteries. Never sometimes got stolen, and everyone would trade them around when they finished.

FTFY

[Where's the cheese?]

Really?

so adding these things are cheesy? then does that make a large portion on the music entertainment industry cheesy as many do many of these same things?

Absolutely.

[GHOST RIDERS to perform @ Empire Show July 16th]

DCA mini corps Silver medalist 2010 (2nd in the world) @ the DCA mini corps championships.

I was in the audience that night and you guys were on fire.......should have won it all IMHO.....Star won on reputation that night and not on performance.......youse guys was robbed...........