Top Cat
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Posts posted by Top Cat
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Oh this brings back memories. Yes they were great, ESPECIALLY for their era. Set so many standards.
Bear in mind a couple of items: Corps at that time were still pretty local, Most members were from the area, not traveling across the county to march (yes a few exceptions but a rarity). The Royals were still a relatively "new" unit in '65. If I remember, they started out as a parish corps in maybe '58. Also, most members were still high schoolers, not the college 20-21 year old , music majors like today.
In any comparisons, we need to always keep in mind the circumstances and development of the activity at that time.
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George was (to me) foremost a teacher. He never passed up an opportunity to share thoughts and ideas, drill writing, guard work or judging. First met him when he was with the Skylarks Guard, I was judging and at critique we would "discuss" to the nth degree any and every aspect of design, movement, equipment, body. Later with Garfield and Star it was the same, looking to discuss, share and accept input. As we became more "comfortable" with each other, I could tell at critiques where his mind set was at. If he talked about the show, its pluses and minuses for the day, I knew he accepted my commentary and scoring. However, if he started talking about the weather or how my judging tour was going or the corps tour --- he was ######, end of discussion. But ALWAYS a gentleman.
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Anyone have a current address for Marie to send a card?
Very true a real legend in the whole pageantry arena not just Drum Corps.
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Anything new?????
One of my favorite corps - missed them a bunch in Annapolis.
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Jeff/Midshipmen;
Sorry to hear this, but understandable.
I too had the privilege of judging the interservice Corps contest in Annapolis, great event. Taken very seriously by all the cadets in competition.
I wish you all the very best in your service to our country.
God Bless you All.
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Anyone know what happened to the DCA Bardstown, KY contest?
It's not on the current DCA contest list
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Just looking for some "on site" info.
How was the attendance? At $5 bucks a ticket!!! Just curious if it made a difference.
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Congratulations Govies on winning the 2009 Class A Championship.
It was an honor to be on the field watching your victory concert after retreat.
One of the many highlights of a fantastic weekend ! ! !
I concur the Govies are a wonderfull ensemble and highlight what a small group CAN achieve.
However, I disagree with them being the "oldest" D&B corps. I believe that distinction goes to the US Navel Academy D&B Corps founded in 1914.
Now, if we would quantify the "oldest" as to competitive corps, maybe that woould be correct, although the academy Midshipmen do compete once each year in the fall with th Air Force Academy D&B corps.
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Interesting how the numbers are coming out and "jumping" each week/day. Not sure you can take the MBI numbers "as is", looking at the recap there are a couple of names I have not seen before. New guys? Locals? First time DCA?
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Looks like the current schedule is up on the DCA web site:
Date Location
June 13 Canastota, NY
June 20 Wildwood, NJ
June 27 Bridgeport, CT
July 4 Rochester, NY
July 11 Wayne, NJ
July 11 Batavia, NY
July 18 Lewisburg PA
July 18 Lawrence, MA
July 25 Jamestown, NY
August 1 Scranton, PA
August 1 Waterloo, NY
August 8 Kingston, NY
August 15 Syracuse, NY
August 15 Racine, WI
August 22 St. Paul, MN
August 22 Norwich, NY
August 22 Rockmart, GA
August 23 St. Peter, MN
August 29 Reading, PA
August 29 West Haven, CT
Sep 4-6 Rochester NY
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Now this may be jumping the gun a bit --- but it's never too soon to plan for this summer.
DCA Schedule for 2009:
6/20/09 Wildwood, NJ
6/27/09 Bridgeport, CT
7/4/09 Rochester, NY
7/10/09 Valdosta, GA
7/11/09 Clifton. NJ
7/11/09 Batavia, NY
7/18/09 Boston, MA
7/18/09 Lewisburg, PA
7/25/09 Jamestown, NY
8/1/09 Scranton, PA
8/1/09 Waterloo, NY
8/1/09 Nashville, TN
8/8/09 Kingston, NY
8/15/09 Syracuse, NY
8/15/09 DCA-Central ??
8/22/09 Norwich, NY
8/22/09 Atlanta, GA
8/22/09 St. Paul, MN
8/23/09 St. Peter, MN
8/29/09 West Haven, CT
8/29/09 Reading, PA
I'm sure I have missed a few. Help fill in the blanks.
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I can remember a very famous Wisconsin DCI Corps using long spears with beautiful brass spear-heads to guard their American Flag and an Illinois corps having lances like the Knights used instead of rifles. I am not sure if they used the lances to guard the American Colors.
The corps that had the tank on the field had a guy in front of the tank carrying a rifle, not a bazooka!
I do beleive that was the Madison Scouts in about 1965-1966?? Problem was back then as actual chartered scouting units they could not carry "weapons", same situation with the Racine Scouts. I just can not remember how they got around the Legion & VFW rules of the time?????????
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Here is one that goes back a long way -- later 60's.
At the VFW nationals, Tony Schlectta anounced the Troopers as the "Caspers from Trooper, Wyoming"
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The thing I have had a problem with is simply calling the Brass judge "Brass" I think it should be like "individual brass" or something, because I know the sound from higher is much different than on the field. Many large ensemble moments really go over the judges head and need to be heard from the middle of the stands. (I know that would be extremely hard to logistically get a judge positioned there)
For example: In Crown's show, I thought one of their best 'brass' moments was Claire de Lune. They were so spread out at that moment, how could the brass judge on the field possibly award them for their blend, balance and phrasing. There is no way he heard it like the audience did. The members he was closest to would always be out of balance with the rest. To me, it is just hard to call the award 'Best Brass' when what the audience heard was different than what the judge heard.
(plus, I think the less judges running around on the field, the less cluttered the visuals would look)
Tez, you make some nice points, but look at the total scoring system now in place. There is a Music Ensemble judge to hear the ensemble performance as you indicate "award them for their blend, balance and phrasing". The Fiels (Individual) judge is looking to hear the performance technique and musicianship of the INDIVIDUAL player. A much different perspective and balances off to those lines that may concentrate on the full sound vs, the individual performance of the member. True best Brass may be the combination of both numbers but that will reflect the total performance of the group. Afterall, should not the objective of the instructional staff be to improve each individual's potential AND the potential of the full ensemble?
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Great thread and terrific responses;
I post because I noted way too may people have serious mis conceptions about judging and what is involved. Someone has to offer at least some insights into the details of what it takes to judge at the DCI level. Also, as I have been around, like almost forever, I can often add some historical insights of "behind the scenes" to some discussions.
And besides all that its a lot of fun.
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I agree, wish they would show more - such talent. Did you hear about the 2 Spanish girls where thheir suits were disqualified? They had sewn lights into the suits for effet ----- Hopkins, eat your heart out (oops, we'll see that next year!!!!)
How about rythmic gymnastics? Not only the grace and beauty of the performers, their "equipment" skills - to me - surpasses anything guards do at any level.
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For the DCA event to move out of the Northeast, some other region will need to host a well-attended "focus event" for a few years. Such an event will only be possible with the inclusion of a few "big guns" of DCA.
Set a firm date for such an event 2 years out, and MAYBE, the present big guns will find a way to make the trip.
Fred; about time someone else is bringing this up. I concur, to build up the "other" regional fanbase, some outside participation in a REQUIREMENT.
I'm still waiting for a responce - ANY RESPONCE - from one of tge big guys on this.
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I posed the question earlier on this thread, would any -if not all the eastern DCA corps - be willing to travel to the midwest or south for shows??????
I concur that before there could ever be a legit bid for the Championships to be in the Midwest or South, some of the east corps would have to help build a higher regional fan base. Just the midwestern or the southern corps in competition will not do it. But start "wetting" their appitites for what the rest of DCA Corpsdom is like- watch out. Not going to happen overnight, I would suspect 5-6 years to build things up and develop a strong mailing list and following.
How about it?? Empire - Cru-Cabs-Buccs-Bush-Brigs-Hurcs who is willing to go on record to do a midwest weekend or Atlanta weekend next year?????????
I am anxious to see a committment!!!!!!!
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Would love to see DCA in the Midwest. However, I just do not see the Northeast corps willing to expend the $$$$ OR time to travel that far. Sure it's more than OK for the Minn Brass, SF Renegades, Corpsvets, Kilts, etc. etc. to do so EVERY year, but "us do that????". Much less the Alumini corps, what would the DCA Championships be without paying tribute to our collective history.
Now IF the east coasters want to really support the DCA movement, how about 1 or 2 of them each year making a trip to the Midwest for a weekend set of shows with the DCA Central corps and/or to the DCA south shows to support their regions. Now THAT would be the most practical way to help the DCA movement.
Comments??
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actually Richard - it's Bugaboo Creek FANTASTIC steak house - and Hooters is now "cheerleaders" ah well... same idea more clothes
the hotel is 3 long blocks east of Marketview Mall/Southtown with just about any restaurant you can possibly think of... you are in a major area
that said... Dinasaur bbq and Nick Tahou's are worth the trip downtown...
If you like Italian... I can point you toward some of the finest Italian restaurants anywhere
Tom, Italian is good - pray tell where????
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Maybe I'm the weirdo in the world, but what a waste of resources. How about spending that time and $$$$ on cleaning up their pollution??? Feeding their people??? Educating them?? Giving them roads?? Etc. etc. etc. You/we see all the glamore of the big cities, but the vast majority of the Chineese population lives in squallar with hardly a shirt on their backs.
Its great to have the games and it is a good thing to do every 4 years. But whay all the pomp and flash ?????????
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Actually yes.
The only corps I saw deserving of the win this year was Blue Devils. Their performance was much better than Cavaliers and Crown.
Thursday night, the night of the interviews they actually had the top 4 in the right order. Actually they had most of the top 12 right, minus a couple of placements in the 8-10 range.
The thing I am getting at, is they were proving the incompetency of the judging system itself. The inconsistencies are just staggering this year more than others even. Take a look at scores across the board, all year long. The spreads have been all over the place. Both in world class and open class. So either the judges are inconsistent, or they don't understand the criteria for judging.
Yes, some corps are going to have off nights. But that shouldn't lower a score more than 3-4 tenths of a point, unless it is something major, and that would probably be noticeable to alot of the people in the audience, and brought up here on the boards on the occasion that it did.
Read the boards from this year. This is the first year I have heard screaming for the firing of a judge. People are finally starting to track and notice some of the judging inconsistencies.
Another comment on the boards that completely drives me nuts is this.
A corps who places 5th or lower can't win a caption award. I have seen it countless times. The problem is, when that corps goes on, how does the judge from that caption know where that corps is going to place when there are still more corps to go on that night? That's just it, he/she DOES know. So how would you justify giving Bluecoats a 10 in percussion, if there are still 6 more corps competing that evening(that's an example, I am not saying Coats should have had a 10 in drums this year) If the Coats have the percussion section to do it, they should be awarded that perfect 10. If another corps performing later has a 10 as well, so be it. But each corps should receive the marks they earned, regardless of other corps performing. For example, let's say Spirit's brass is amazing and should be scoring a 9.8 or a 9.9 from the judge. They are seeded 15th coming in. Do you really think one of the judges is going to award them that score with 14 more corps to perform? NO
Alot of people may disagree with me, but I honestly feel that caption awards should be given based on quarterfinals performances. Every corps performing should be able to win a caption award, regardless of whether or not they are in the top 12 corps. Granted, the top corps usually have the best hornlines, colorguards and drumlines, as well as show design. But occasionally you might just have a corps that happens to have one exceptional section, but the corps just isn't good enough overall to make the cut.
Bottom line, the judges don't make the call, the call is already made for them. DCI, although a non-profit, still has to be run like a business, just like any corps does. So, the judges when actually asked questions, can't answer them because they simply don't understand the way judging should be done, were they actually doing it the way it was supposed to be done according to the sheets that DCI sets forth.
Man do you have an ax to grind or what?????
Maybe you are a "judge" maybe not - couldn't care less but unless you have been a DCI judge at the Championships, you haven't got a clue as to what the thought patterns and pressures are.
1. The "interviewed" judges during the broadcast were not even the judges doing the show that night. Those were clips from earlier in the season.
2. What is so bad about a little "inconsistency" in scoring. If each judge gave the same numbers each night ----- WHY HAVE A CONTEST????? Just do it once and everyone can go home and cook burgers.
3. Variety is good in scores, in tape commentary, in discussions at critiques. ITS PART OF THE ACTIVITY> Learn to live with it.
4. Now, quit being a smart a-- and be part of the program. If you think you have better judging skills than everyone else, contact John Phillips to request being a DCI judge. Then YOU can correct all of YOUR percieved problems with the system.
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From the recaps it looks like they got screwed pretty hard in percussion. Neil Fox (Perc 2) had them within a tenth of Vanguard Cadets but Neil Sylvia (Perc 1) had them at a .7 spread.
Don't forget, those judges are judging different captions. Field percussion vs. ensemble percussion. Scoring should be "similar" burt not necessarily the same. I do not find these numbers totally out of possibility.
Look at any/all the previous 2 percuission judged shows they were against each other and use that as a means for analysis.
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"The judge also rewards the design team for creating a show where the music and visual program work as a single entity. "
From the description of the Ensemble Visual category.
I don't know....it just seems wrong to me to reward (or penalize) a corps' staff instead of a corps' members in a non-GE caption. I can understand why design would need to be incorporated into GE (a little), but in my head, Ensemble Vish should be all about how clean (or dirty) the forms are when they "hit," how the transitions look, etc.
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Kieren;
There are 2 sub-caption for Visual Ensemble: Composition and Performance. Your comment focuses on the performance area, the composition is directly related to how the design team integrates the visual & musical ideas, Now this is NOT effect it is the written composition. In an extreme you could have an extreme;y well put together ensemble that is "boreing" and therefore lacks effect, but still deserves credit for a well written product.
Side note: all the sheets all captions have a combination of designer and performer relationship. There is no purely performer caption and no purely designer caption. Each caption may lean more or less in either direction but it all needs to work together.
IMO BILL COOK
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Here is another look at what a fine gentleman Mr. Cook was. In the early days of Star, when DCM (Drum Corps Midwest) was in its heyday, there were a number of DCM shows in Kansas. Being a week plus "tour" of contests, the judges panel needed to be switched out a bit to enhance feedback, and inputs to the group of corps. The logistics of moving the panel in and out were beyond the budget of DCM to manage. Mr.Cook "lent" his jet to DCM to fly in "replacement" judges and take the others back to Milwaukee. As far as I know, this was all at his own expense in support of the DCM organization. As one of those judges, I was amazed and awed by the generosity he extended. Is there anyone currently in the activity to match??????