Top Cat
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Posts posted by Top Cat
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BucsBuff is absolutely correct.
It's DCA WORLD Championship which begs the point of an open welcome to any and all.
Actually, I'm surprised some of the European corps have not been coming to DCA instead of DCI as they fit All-Age more than "Jr.".
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Liam; You are very correct in your comments regarding the downfall of DCM.
Would - will DCI encourage the re-start of local circuits? Probably yes on paper, but forget about them allowing "their" touring corps to break ranks and participate in a non-DCI contest. They have the total control of each corps competative schedule. If they want to do Europe, Asia tours that's their business, but compete outside the DCI schedule - no way (do the Yankees compete in a triple A schedule???? even to help them out for attendance???)
Back on the DCM thing, in 2002 the last "full" year, there were 20 jr. corps in prelims. For 2007, 8 of them are now no longer with us (add in a 9th - Southwind for 2008). Before 2002, 20 corps in prelims was pretty much the normal, some corps went, but others were "created" to fill the gaps. Balance was achieved. Now there is no balance, just corps going away faster than new one's created.
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You drum guys are a hoot!!!
The responsibility of the judge is not to hear every note, see every step, its to sample all applicable sections of the corps on a regular, as even as possible, basis. The field percussion judge's task is to sample all the sections (snare, quads, battery, cymbals and front ensemble) as frequently and as throughly as possible. The task is not to hear/evaluate every note, phrase each performer contributes.
Get over it, more judges is never the answer!!!!
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Nothing... what does a visual judge do when there's nothing going on visually? The point is, hiring an extra judge to do nothing for 4 minutes of a show seems like a waste. Those other two judges are already on the panel.
You are incorrect.
Brass judges will usually expand on their earlier commentaries on what the brass line has performed.
As long as there are performers performing (even standing still) there are criteria to judge visually (posture/carriage, spacings/alignments, etc.). Plus expansion on earlier observations.
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How many of you realize there will be a drum corps contest this coming Saturday - in the USA?
Its the Interservice Academy Drum & Bugle corps contest where the Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy and the Naval Academy corps meet to compete against each other. It's at the Naval Academy, September 29 Annapolis, MD.
For those of you who are already feeling the effects of "competative withdrawl", maybe this would be an opportunity to not only see a drum corps show but support these young people in their military careers. They have not only volunteered to perform with their respective corps but have volunteered to serve our country
and lay their lives on the line so we can all live in a free country. -
Thanks Mike, much appreciated.
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Anybody have a listing of who the DCA Judges were for prelims & finals at the 2005 Championships???
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What prevents any corps from competing in both associations??
Is there an "unwritten" rule that says (for instance) that the Jersy Surf (being in the East) could not extend their season, compete at a DCA east show (like this weekend) and then in Rochester?????
Or for that matter, doing DCI & DCA shows throughout the season????
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Thank you all for forwarding contact information. I will send this concern to DCI. I will post there response, if any, on this forum.
You may also want to contact Gene Monterastlli. He has acted as the Rules Congress moderator for the last couple of sessions. If anything he will direct you to the correct form to fill out for a rules change.
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I want to add Freelancers, Sky Ryders, Rivermen (sorry Blue Stars), The Kilties (not DCA-no offense), Bengal Lancers, Guardsmen, Wausau Story and their cadet corp Pages of the Wausau Story-how cute, Windjammers, Royal Brigade, Les Chattelaine, Senaca Optimists, Defenders, Imperial Knights, PR Regiment Cadets and Cavie Cadets, Seattle Imperials, that Canadian Corps that did An American in Paris-cant recall name, General Butler Vagabonds, Capitolaire Petites, Coachmen, VK-div I, Bandettes, Americanos, Memorial Lancers-were they from St. Louis-they were cool, Argonne Rebels, what was the name of that corp from Tulsa-them too....thank you good night.
Tulsa --- Black Gold
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Fort Dodge Lanciers
Waterloo Chevaliers
Cedar Rapid Grenadiers
Clinton Nee-His
Waterloo Royals
A little Iowa bias here.
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Same thing on my end??????? I "wonder" how come????????????????
Not to be a conspiracy theorist --- BUT ------- is someone tired of all the recap reading and postings regarding "inconsistencies"?? Hard to compare when you have limited access to the data!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hey - anyone out there remember the first midwest corps to make DCA finals?
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Peel Back is right on the mark ---
Most likely the judge did not see and even if he had - what were the circumstances?? A fall during a very challenging move is not the end of the world. Field judges are not there to check off instantaneous errors, but to evaluate the OVERALL techniques, training, skills and RESPONSIBILITIES placed on the students.
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With some research, you could predict the outcome to about a 90% certenty all the placings by looking at previous recaps with those individual judges. Don't think on numbers, look at spreads and placements. Anything over 10 days is useless, best within the last week.
Have fun.
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Ok -- here's a question I have ALWAYS wanted to ask, but was afraid to for fear of loosing a limb -- or getting my home or car blown up!!!
We all know the little, quirky, indescribable inadequecies we've ALL witnessed as far as scoring/placements and the judges who score at drum corps shows over our years, and some facets as well as judging criteria that "has been" made public to the average person (in "DCI Today" among other places) is very 'grey' and has ALOT of variables in said criteria that seem very person specific and how that leads them to judge a corps. It all seems to lean more & more towards a 'personal opinion' or, certain likes or dislikes than actually scoring a set list of criteria. SIMPLY PUT!
Go read the artcle in "DCI Today" last seasons copy where various judges listed their experience and "what they use for analysis" when judging their respective areas , be it guard, perc, ensemble, brass etc, etc, etc. It was mind blowing to read "I listen for this....." or "I look for that..." which is ok, BUT CAN a person who has NOT ever marched any corps at all, judge various degrees of difficulty in playing, drill, design and ensemble etc if they were never really involved to KNOW what it all encompassed?
Are their requirements that must be met to be a DCI judge in any area BESIDES being a band teacher or professional musician, or -- for that matter, a broadway show designer? I have been dumbfounded by the judging system in the past 3 years -- and delerious trying to decipher it all. I say this because I heard/seen/attended shows where certain corps are rewarded for 'how fast the play & run' - where others, are crucified, even when others (aside from judges) see them as clean, good feet etc. While some corps get astronomical scores for drill and 'design' when most of the time they are standing still and playing and the only movement is in the colorguard or the pit --- where other corps (several) are running their butts off and get poor design/drill scores? Even if they are clean!??!
Why is there so many captions WITHIN captions anymore? It's almost breaking down a human hair to the follicle and analyzing it, comparing it to other peoples and trying to give it a score! How can this be done FAIRLY when say, a brass judge, anywhere, has never marched corps, but is a professional jazz musician and teacher and is now a judge? Would not their tastes in music lean more towards the familiar (jazz, popular etc) as say, opposed to Classical? Or, say a classicaly trained musician, say a percussionist who has marched and that's it - judge all styles, musical types etc?
I am a professional musician, college educated and never really see bios or skills on judges, nor, ANY criteria or necessary skills in order to judge. Can folkws enlighten me?
I have degrees in horn performance and have taught bands as well as knowing several BOA judges, and even a few that are now DCI judges -- what is the job requirements -- I might just apply!
Your inquiry is very applicable for anyone wanting to be a drum corps judge.
Here are a couple of items for you:
Contacting DCI Judge Administrator John Phillips would be OK, but the first thing he will ask after your academic qualifications, is if you have already been judging? Be it, bands, guard, concerts, whatever. DCI has no method of training someone from scratch. Or contact the DCI Regional Administrator in your area: CA - Mike Rubino, Central - Dallas Niermeyer, Atlantic - Gary Markham. So first thing - get some practical experience.
Next - time commitment is not that high, yes summer season can be a grind, but only a select few judges actually work a good portion of the season. Most do 8-12 shows, some even less. There is usually a June pre-season clinic, (not held in 2007).
Pay is $250 for a regular tour show (plus travel), slightly more for the longer prelim shows and championships week.
Hard to indicate the number of judges with real D&B experience (prior to judging), at one time it was 100%. Now????? Several have come from BOA, others straight out of band judging backgrounds. The visual caption is overwhelmed with WGI people almost to the exclusion of D&B only people.
Your academic qualifications are great, plus a background performing, look into it, good lick.
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Hey guys--- get real!!!
Div II/III has been the "Prodigal son(s)" of DCI for years. Why spend more than they have too for a stadium.
Only reason to keep them in the DCI fold, is to keep control of the activity!!!
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Mercy HS - Milwaukee ---- those Catholic girls can be hot when the nuns wern't around!!!!!
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Just the way the percussion judge and GE music judges were talking the whole time, it was almost like they had never seen the shows before. But maybe i just took it the wrong way.
Proper judging technique IS to approach each show, each performance like it is a first read. So maybe their dialog was tilted that way to make this point.
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I was watching last year's finals dvd, and i was wondering if it's a first read for the Judges that judge on that night. It sounded like it was by the way they were talking, but it seems odd that the descision would be left up to Judges that havent seen them before. Just a question.
Not sure which judge you are talking about, but it is VERY rare for a judge to be doing any of the championship week shows as a "first" read. It is possible, but still rare, for the read to be the first time on that particular caption, but almost never a first time read of the corps all season.
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Hey Guys: Bluecoat's staff is very professional - all captions. They are more than aware of any judge "bias'" affecting their outcome. No doubt they have been in close contact with not only Mr. Carlson but John Phillips as well. Besides all that, I understand, Gene Monterastelli (DCI Hall of Fame, visual judge, teacher extraordinare) is with the Bluecoats this year. Gene does not let a subject like this slip past him.
Look at it this way as well, all these touring shows and even the big regional shows are just warm up - preliminary performances. The objective and goal for the corps & staff's is championship weekend, and in the case of a top 6 unit - finals. That's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow - everything else is setup for this show. If there is a Bluecoats (or any other corps) biased judge out there, its the finals panel that counts and that is where their emphasis will be placed.
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I havn't got a clue if BD & SCV work together on anything out west. But when there was a Drum Corps Midwest organization there was a lot of interaction among the member corps to better each other and the whole midwest region. Now???? Every man for himself !!! Is this going forward - or back?
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Off the field, these are probably the two finest DC's in the activity. The business side of things is superior to just about anything else around. And I can't stress enough the amazing record this indicates coming from two corps based on some of the most expensive real estate in the world, people!
A couple of you mentioned pushing each other--I can't help but imagine that there has been quite a bit of collaboration both in business-side dealings as well as in creative and philosophical stuff as well.
As far as I am aware, there isn't much of this between Cavies, Scouts, and PR, but I'm not exactly privvy to such info. It should definitely speak to other corps and groups of corps in the activity if SCV and BD do this.
Boston/Cadets(Yea)
The 3 Midwest corps listed and, say, Ohio/Iowa corps
etc
There are great possibilities for various corps to partner together--kind of push each other.
I'd be interested to hear more related to this both from the Westies as well as others more familiar with other corps listed.
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Hey guys lets be realistic. How can anyone rank these units without even any real meetings?????
You can not look at raw scores and make a determination. Especially regarding CA.!!! The events there may have been with DCA sheets/scoring but the judges were DCI. May all be great judges, but 1) are not that familiar with DCA standards, 2) not familiar with DCA corps (nationally), 3) not "trained" in the DCA philosophy, need anyone go on from there????
Same goes for Minn Brass, they have had sporatic exposure to any of the DCA judges, most appearances are again DCI guys, using the DCA sheets, but not enough of a panel to make a determination.
Lets wait till after Dublin to make some comparisons. As for the CA corps, Labor Day is comming.
Drum Corps History Help!
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
George had one of the most unusual critique techniques. No matter if he agreed or disagreed with scores, placing or the tape commentary he would talk about a lot of other topics - first. Then depending on the extent of his agreement/dissagreement level he would get to the show. If he didn't talk about the show at all - he was really ######. After acouple of critiques as a judge you caught on, but also as George got to know the judge as a person, critiques evolved into a dialog on design, teaching, state of the activity, life in general.
Bottom line was George was a lover of the activity and passionate about his designs and students.
I miss his fellowship to this day.