vaguardguy
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Posts posted by vaguardguy
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Any answer other than Magic of Orlando '02 is wrong...flat out wrong (and shows you haven't followed the division(s) long)...
...now the best corps that deserved to be in Open/DivII/III/A/A-60, that's open to debate.
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People "in the know" more than me can elaborate on this...but I think (note: think) that it was the membership of the Chieftains that voted to form the Lehigh Valley Knights div III DCI corps and stop performing themselves.
I've been told that by the Chieftain's last competitive season during the summer of 1999, a large majority of the membership was under 21 years old. The BoD decided (I doubt many corps, even in DCA, allow their membership to vote on the direction their corps takes) to suspend the Chieftain's competitive corps and allocate their resources to forming a junior corps. Since so much of their membership was HS students, they viewed it as a fairly logical step. Sometime in 2000, the Lehigh Valley Knights was born and began doing parades. The corps fielded a competitive, DCI DivIII corps from 2001-2004, making finals once (in an era where you pretty much had to be in the top 3 of a field of 30ish DivIII corps to make finals), semifinals three times, and claiming best colorguard twice(ish). The Lehigh Valley Knights folded during the winter of 2005 when the small BoD decided they no longer wanted to put in the logistical efforts to field a DCI corps.
Originally, the corps' staff and volunteers comprised a number of Chieftains who were overage. As the corps matured and progressed competitively, their involvement diminished. Despite this, as late as 2003 the Chieftains senior corps still formed and marched alongside the Lehigh Valley Knights in parades as a fundraiser (twice the corps, twice the pay).
(edited to answer the question more clearly)
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I believe Kiwanis Kavaliers (Div. I) did a show in Ontario their last year fielding a corps (2005). It was mostly a Div. II/III show and I think they were the only Div. I corps competing. Regardless of what you think of Kiwanis, a Div. I corps has been to Canada more recently than 2000. It's just a shame a world class corps hasn't been there in over three years.
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Who have the Troopers beaten (typing out loud here from scores I can find):
Academy - at least 2008
Blue Devils - 1973
Blue Knights - 1977
Blue Stars - 1973
Bluecoats - 1977
Boston Crusaders - 1973
Cadets - 1972
Carolina Crown - 1990
Cavaliers - 1972
Colts - 1973
Crossmen - 1975
Glassmen - 1980
Madison Scouts - 1972
Mandarins - at least 2008
Pacific Crest - at least 2008
Phantom Regiment - 1972
Pioneer - at least 2008
Santa Clara Vanguard - 1973
Spirit - 1977
So yes, Trooopers make the list.
What about Blue Stars:
Academy - at least 2008
Blue Devils - 1973
Blue Knights - 1977
Bluecoats - 1977
Boston Crusaders - 1973
Cadets - 1972
Carolina Crown - ???
Cavaliers - 1972
Colts - at least 2008
Crossmen - at least 2008
Glassmen - at least 2008
Madison Scouts - at least 2008
Mandarins - at least 2008
Pacific Crest - at least 2008
Phantom Regiment -
Pioneer - at least 2008
Santa Clara Vanguard - 1972
Spirit - at least 2008
Troopers - at least 2008
I think Troopers are a yes and Blue Stars are a no. Corpsreps couldn't show me even any A/A-60 or II/III scores where Blue Stars beat Crown.
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I'm looking for old logos for the Royal Crusaders, from Pittsburgh, PA and the Golden Lancers, also from Western Pennsylvania.
If anyone has anything with either one of these, please post them here or send me a PM.
It's for someone close to me who was involved with both of these drum corps.
Thanks!
Up until the early 2000's, the Royal Crusaders organization fielded a winter drumline that competed in TIA. I marched with a guy who got his start there before Project Percussion came about. I'll PM you his e-mail address. He might be able to (or know someone who can) help you out.
There's someone here on DCP who has posted in the Open Class forum once in a very blue moon who's an alum of the DIV III Golden Lancers. I seem to vaguely recall him having a Golden Lancers logo as his avatar. He wasn't very frequent, so good luck on that. Here's their REALLY old website: http://users.stargate.net/~gldci/
Best of luck.
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Good morning,
I am Chris Roland, the director for the Yorktown High School Colorguard from Arlington, VA. I have a growing, competitive program and am looking for another instructor to fill a vacancy in the staff.
The position will entail both design and instruction. Drum corps or competitive winterguard experience is required. Strong weapons experience is preferred.
Please feel free to private message me here or e-mail me at christopher.roland@gmail.com if you're interested.
Best wishes,
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How about the Marion Cadets who placed 4th in 2004 and 3rd in 2003, Divison 3 but nw open class. You do know that they are returning for 2008!!!!
I'm not sure if what you wrote is a typo because the '4' key is nowhere near the '8' key. For the sake of accuracy, it's worth noting that the Marion Cadets finished 8th in 2004, not 4th.
Is Michael King still the director?
To Marion's credit, they had a fantastic colorguard in 2001 and 2002, and a good drumline in 2003.
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I think this makes the Raiders the highest-placing corps in all of DCI still on G horns... Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Since you're inviting:
Raiders went Bb in 2002, the first year Bb horns were allowed in DivII/III.
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I remember that night. 3 corps within one tenth.
And all three corps were within an hour and a half's drive of each other too.
LVK, CNYC, and Raiders had VERY different strengths and weaknesses. We used to joke about what kind of amazing corps could have been put together if one were to have taken the best aspects of each program.
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… Announcement just a short 7 days away…
Glen, again with being a tease. When's someone going to tell you to knock it off :P
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Pardon me, but what does LVK stand for?
LVK = Lehigh Valley Knights
We were your corps' rivals back in the day.
Compare DivIII championships scores from '02-'04 and you'll see why:
2002 DivIII Semifinals:
6th place - LVK 78.950
7th place - Raiders 78.300
2003 DivIII Semifinals:
4th place - LVK 81.300*
5th place - CNYC (Cadets of New York City) 81.250
6th place - Raiders 81.200
* advances to finals
2004 DivIII Semifinals
5th place - LVK 82.275
6th place - Raiders 79.650
As you can imagine, the rivalry got pretty fierce sometimes. In hindsight, it was all pretty good fun.
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Minor correction:
I'm fairly certain DCA does not require an honor guard (national flag party), it's just that many (most) corps choose to include one.
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If someone wants to browse From the Press Box more thoroughly, they can; but I believe Fever's 18.6 last night ties the highest DivIII guard score awarded ever since the caption was officially scored in 2000. Congratulations!!!
I would love to hear any reviews from anyone who's actually seen their colorguard. There's been scant little said about them, but I imagine they must've been very good.
Also, having also come from a corps proper who placed 5th on Thursday night, also with a similarly ranked/scored colorguard, I really do hope they have the caption award system fixed so these kats get the recognition they deserve. Maybe it's because it's a little personal and I really hope they'd have the problem fixed by now, but it really does hurt to win your caption at prelims and semis by a wide margin, only to not get the caption award because the rest of the corps couldn't finish in the top 3 to advance to finals. Either way, congratulations Fever on an excellent placement and regardless of whether you get the plaque or not, you can still consider yourselves the best colorguard in DivIII.
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When I was marching in an A-60 corps in the early 90s, we weren't on open class sheets, nor were we competing against Class A corps at championships. A-60 & A finals were separate, but held one right after the other. If I remember correctly, the top six scoring corps from A & A-60 finals were eligible to advance to Open Class quarterfinals, where they'd be judged on open class sheets for the first time.
I was referring back to the 70's where the A-Class winners were scoring in the low 70's. True, they might have just had REALLY difficult A/A-60/All-Girl sheets, so I am speculating a little. Still, winning Class A with a 71.35 (as did the first Class A champion) should strike even the casual fan as odd. I suspect they were on Open Class sheets back then.
2001 was the last year DivII/III corps could advance to DivI Quarterfinals without any kind of DivI-level commitment the following season. They used to take the top 5 scoring corps from DivII/III Finals (regardless of Division; so usually it was all DivII corps, but the occasional DivIII snuck in). For 2002, in response to complaints from lower-tier DivI corps regarding payouts, they made it so that to compete at DivI Quarterfinals, you had to commit to at least a limited DivI tour the following season. That summer, Magic of Orlando and Capital Regiment agreed to a full tour the next year and Mandarins agreed to a limited tour. Those three went on to compete with great success in DivI Quarterfinals. Following '02, DCI began evaluations for DivI status that were no longer dependent on competitive placement and tour commitment alone.
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Why is there a combined final? I assume there must be some reason. I just accept it as the way it is now, but why is it? Div 1/2 aren't combined, why are 2/3? ...just wondering.....
It's apparently been that way since the A/A-60/All-Girl days. I guess since DivII and DivIII are on the same sheets, they can hold both events simultaneously. Then again, A/A-60 corps used to be on Open class sheets, yet never were combined with DivI finals. I know, not a very strong argument.
Why are there 12 corps at finals? Why not 10 (like DCA Open Class), or 15 (like WGI). Some things have reasons that, over time, become nothing short of arbitrary tradition.
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To be quite frank, 2003's format was messed up, because when we got rained out, they should have gone w/prelim scores to advance people to finals, instead of partial scores from semi's. I think that was the dumbest thing ever. Sound's semi's show was 10 times better than prelims, and somehow they went down significantly. Just had to add my 2 cents as to why the 1st year corps from Memphis didn't make finals, although they should have (and yes I realize LVK was the ones who put them out of finals).
Sor you feel that way, but scores are scores (especially earned scores). Could you imagine the sentiment from corps like LVK, CNYC, and Raiders (all three of who beat Memphis Sound fair and square that evening) to have their earned scores annulled even though they were rewarded for their equally excellent performances on the field of competition? Yeah, it sucks when the numbers don't go your way (welcome to my ageout summer), and no offense, do you really think the corps who placed 1st-10th in Prelims were really going to finish 13th or lower at Semis and be seeded out of Finals? Really, com'on. Memphis was not going to beat Impulse that night, plain and simple (that's like saying you think Colts are going to pass Madison Scouts tonight...good luck with that).
When you look at the recaps (DivIII here and DivII here), the captions speak for themselves. Memphis was not a very visual-oriented corps that summer, and that's was all the difference. Rain or no rain, the portion of competition that mattered most (who would get seeded into finals) was completed.
No sense in crying over spilt milk. At least fans of Memphis Sound can still cheer on their corps. That is worth more than any Finals performance.
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Teal Sound would have to fall by more than a point....sorry, don't see it happening.
It looks like a year of 9 and 3.
Has there been a year since the new format when Div. III put more than 3 corps in finals?
Tom Brace
2003 was the only year that did not include 9 DivII corps since the new II/III Finals format was initiated in 2002. That season's Finals was composed of 8 DivII corps (Esperanza, Patriots, Spartans, East Coast Jazz, Jersey Surf, Revolution, Capital Sound, and Impulse) and 4 DivIII corps (Blue Stars, Yamato, Marion Glory Cadets, and Lehigh Valley Knights). DivII Memphis Sound did not advance to the bright-and-early, 8AM Saturday morning show. There is a general consensus among people who marched that summer that it was not an especially strong year for DivII (especially coming after '02 where DivII Finals had amazing programs from Magic of Orlando, Capital Regiment, Mandarins, Santa Clara Vanguard Cadets, Spartans, Esperanza, Patriots, East Coast Jazz, and Jersey Surf).
Little known tidbit: there has been a year since beginning the "new" Finals format other than '03 where there has been more than 3 DivIII corps advancing to Finals. In '02, DivIII Taipei Yuehfu finished 3rd, but they competed under International Division rules and could not exclude a North American corps from advancing. 4th place Yamato was allowed to compete Wed. night (back when Finals was during the week) in Madison that year, making for 9 DivII corps and 4 DivIII corps.
The original intent of the new format was to highlight the best corps DivII/III had to offer, regardless of division. Sadly, DivII/III is no more popular than it was four seasons ago and DivIII corps who finish in the upper echelon of their division continue to be excluded from showcasing their performance at Finals. It's time to create a proportional system for finalist spots based on the total number of entrants in each respective division.
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Lehigh Valley Knights... the time is coming... :)
Oh Glen Paisley, stop being such a tease :P !
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I'm not an authority on CoH and will readily rescind my comments if an authoritative member close to the corps can attest otherwise, but I recall CoH's demise as being a product of gross financial mismanagement. I think MHSmirage must've either been misinformed or thinking of another corps when she commented about their folding being a product of administrative/staff issues. As I recall, it was confirmed by multiple people close to the organisation (including a member of the BoD) that they were left with insurmountable debt.
I remember that summer wondering how they got brand new uniforms, new horns, new battery percussion, new equipment trailer; seemingly new everything. I guess it turned out they hadn't? A shame too, especially since they had the best DivIII hornline in '04.
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It's been a long time since I did Roman Numerals. If that's to be read "Four Hundred Forty Four", wouldn't it be DCLXIV ?
I really don't recall...
CDXLIV :)
...but that makes for some pretty funny-lookin' drill!
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I think he means that the MDBCA board may have been onto something when it dropped Cap Sound. I'm not so sure about that however. Cap Sound lost most of its members after the 2003 season when it looked like they would not be around anymore. I fully believe that if the corps would have been active in November or December (instead of February) that membership would have been up in 2004, which would have placed them at nearly full capicity.
However, from what I understand Cap Sound does all of there recruitment now by Word of Mouth. Small corps cannot survive using this technique. Keith Gee, the original director of CS, would go out to a lot of schools in the madison area and around the state to recruit. I just don't think that happens anymore.
I'm glad to hear cap sound is going to be fine, but if they want to be fine for years to come they will need to revisit some of there recruitment techniques. THey no longer can simply get members because they are part of the Madison Organization or because they are the biggest "small" corps in the area.....especially with the return of the Americanos.
First off, I think Gantang is a troll, and probably not worth the effort of giving a response. He posted this on a thread about CapSound's first camp. He was being hyper-critical and looking for a fight, evoking the old Scott Stewart mantra about not caing about placements and applying it to the new, non-MDBCA CapSound. I don't know what his point was other than to display his own stunning ignorance and to sabotage and hijack the efforts of a corps trying to survive after being dumped by its parent organisation.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Madison's organisation cut the CapSound program for financial reasons, not philosophical? This was all around the same time Madison bought new horns, new buses, new uniforms, new cook truck, etc., so it was fairly controversial at the time. Rather than folding the corps, parents and volunteers got together to reorganise the corps outside the MDBCA?
I'm just glad that rather than seeing yet ANOTHER II/III corps folding, they chose to hit the field with what they had. It is hard to recruit in DivIII, and no, word of mouth alone absolutely won't cut it. An active recruiting program of having staff visit area high schools, setting up booths at local marching band shows, and an attractive, professional web presence are just as important.
CapSound is a great drum corps, and I can't wait to see what kind of production they'll put on for the home crowd in Madison this year.
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Hmmm, don't know whether to interpret that as a slight on the marching or what . . . Clarify?
Does it matter any? So what? Whether it was intentionally meant as a slight or not, it was still very funny.
Let's face it, Surf hasn't been well known for exceptional marching ability. Even Mr. Jacobs has come on this forum and joked something to the effect of, "Next year we're going to actually have a marching program :) ." It's become almost a stereotype, and a funny one at that. If other Surf members can laugh a little at themselves, why can't you. Bluecoats used to have a similar perception with people joking about how they march like trucks (then they got good at marching, and that changed). Laugh a little, smile a little, not everyone is perfect.
We all love the fabulous Jersey Surf regardless of how well they march. Rather than nit-picking someone's otherwise positive review and trying to start a fight, laugh at the little jab of a well known, trivial flaw.
Thanks for the reviews Bobby and Eddie!
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Madison----------------Surf
hmmmmm........................................ BIG CHANGE!!!!
Though I have not been a huge fan of all of Surf's recent productions ('00 and '05 are notable exceptions), and there have been some incidents with select members that have left a sour taste in my mouth; but I do have to stand up for them. Surf has a program that is unique in DCI. They provide a venue for young people to march that otherwise might not be able. They run a fantastic program their kids love and swear by to their friends. They learn a great deal, and enjoy a total drum corps experience. I don't know if it was your intention, but your comment seems to come off as somewhat demeaning to Surf; as though they're not a comparable drum corps? I think it's the caps that make me read it as though this is something especially radical, and I don't think you would've wrote that if the situation were reversed and he was going from Surf to Madison? Correct me if I'm wrong and you really do think someone moving from a DivII corps to a DivI corps would require the same level of exclamation?
You know, sometimes even top 12 DivI soloists need to hold down jobs. Surf is now probably the closest we have left to a "weekends-only junior corps" where you can work a M-F 8-5 during most of the summer. Surprisingly, there are a number of people who have to make a living or pay for school; and giving up an entire summer to march just isn't feasible. From personal experience, I can tell you this type of schedule has a lot of appeal out East and is similar to what many of our DCA corps undertake. In fact, we even had people come to LVK after marching DivI.
Maybe he's originally from NJ, or marched Surf in the past. Maybe he's marching a corps that's more convenient for him. Maybe he just likes their style more.
As far as talent is concerned, I think you'll be surprised how little difference there is between DivI and DivII/III. Really, the only difference is II/III corps are willing to take on a few less experienced members. If you remove the outliers, I think you'll find the talent pretty comparable. The remaining difference is in show design and rehearsal time. All this is evident in I&E scores. Yes, usually most contest winners are from top 12 DivI corps, but so too are the competitors who finish at the bottom. You'll usually find most of the II/III members in the middle of the pack, sandwiched between members of DivI corps. I marched a weekends-only corps, and the vast majority of the members did not have DivI aspirations. They came because they liked to march, and the schedule was especially convenient. This is apparent because after the corps folded, more than half our members emigrated to DCA corps. In general, these were among our more talented and experienced members (though there are some very notable exceptions).
Either way, the only difference this member'll likely experience is that he'll have many of the work-weeks off, there'll be a few newbies in the hornline, and the show'll be written accordingly for a corps with limited rehearsal time. I wouldn't call that a "big change." He'll still wake up at 7AM on camp days, he'll still put on his marching shoes, his hat, and his sunscreen before he takes the rehearsal field, he'll still sleep on gym floors, and he'll still perform in front of crowds that absolutely adore the fan-friendly shows his corps produces.
Edit: punctuation error.
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Id have to agree with most I just did not care for that cymbal ride in the Largo section .. as for a tacit battery ... isnt there such thing as extra keyboards or aux parts ... could they not have learnd horn for that little section of the show. and as far as my take on the 05 Glassmen version of New World ... that has GOT to be the most messed up, tackey, god aweful version I have EVER heard of that piece
Keith, I'll have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on the Glassmen's arrangement of New World. I'll go so far as to say, musically, it's easily in my top four or five favourite shows of the summer (didn't Robert Smith arrange it). This is drum corps, no one holds precisely true to an original arrangement, and no attempt should be made to exactly recreate a composition when the instrumentation is completely different. Different idioms call for different arrangements. I think they did a fantastic take that kept the piece fresh, relevant, and gave us a new way of viewing the original composition. Messed up, tacky, and god-awful are far from words I'd use to describe such a clever, original, tasteful, and well-thought-out production such as theirs. If you want to talk tacky and god-awful, we can instead talk about a certain poorly-constructed and poorly-performed attempt at impersonating Bjork.
How's Cali treating you? Must be nice not sitting under inches of snow all winter?
Winter Guard Videos
in CGP General Discussion
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Are you thinking Trumbull HS 2012? There's (for now, at least) a hi-cam video on YouTube.