HappyDad
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Posts posted by HappyDad
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Thank you. I have checked some colleges and University of Indiana is sending us some information.
My daughter wants to go to Bowling Green when she graduates.
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My daughter is finishing her junior year in high school and has been in band since 8th grade. She was asked to perform with the High School Marching band as an 8th grader. She wants to be a drum major and someone told us that some drum and bugle corps have drum major camps and workshops.
My daughter is on drum corps planet because she wants to march in a drum and bugle corps someday and so I am asking if any drum and bugle corps you know have drum major camps or workshops. We live in southern Indiana.
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I'm not sure why you'd post this response. I was asking a legitimate question. It seems to me that with higher local membership than almost any other World Class corps, they could use that situation to their advantage.
Get happy.
I don't understand. Maybe I don't understand the point. You mentioned weeknight rehearsals and I would guess the location of this corps would allow better use of limited rehearsal time as compared to other more cold climate centered corps.
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If most of your membership is local, why not do weekly rehearsals rather than overnight camps? Unless they want to tap into national talent.
Does being in Arizona give Academy more time for visual rehearsal? They don't have snow from November to April like other places. How do other corps manage it? Are there large indoor facilities in other places?
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Also DCI open-class.
I guess the bottom line is that drum corps has allowed the vicious circle of less corps/rising costs to take over. Rising costs knock some corps out of action. The fewer corps we have, the more the remaining corps have to travel to compete with each other, thus adding more to the costs....lather, rinse, repeat. Many of the "obstacles" to kids joining corps are a consequence of having fewer and more expensive corps.
You make some good points. Thank you.
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(sigh)
Like most things, it isn't as simple as black-and-white.
I'm not clear what the point is here.
First of all, there are no rules in place in DCI that dictate any of the six listed barriers to entry....and, logically enough, there are corps participating in DCI that serve kids who must deal with one or more of those six issues.
Secondly, there is a movement afoot to "start a new circuit" (DCNA).
Third, as pointed out above, there is also DCA, which operates on the weekend-only model, thus addressing some of the six listed items as well.
So to the OP - what are you driving at? You think there should be more kids involved in those type of corps? Or more adults? Or do you just want DCP posters to put their money/time where their mouths are?
As you must realize, HS marching band enjoys significant operational advantages over independent groups like drum corps. The marching band is usually under the umbrella of the academic band program; thus, it is already in the same school that kids must attend 1,000 hours each year, it has academic credit associated with it, and it is largely subsidized by our tax dollars. Worst case for the few extracurricular HS MB programs is that they don't get academic credit, but they still benefit from the other two factors.
It is no surprise, then, that the barrier to entry for HS MB is lower than that of drum corps. Look at your list of six issues....none of them even apply (well, maybe some of #1 in the face of today's budget cuts, but not in comparable magnitude to the drum corps funding challenge). Naturally, I would expect to see a lot more kids participating in HS MB than drum corps under these circumstances. Wouldn't you? (Wouldn't anyone?)
Let me try to answer your question. I read in many topics on DCP that there are too many obstacles keeping kids from marching drum and bugle corps who apparently want to march. I tried to list the points I continued to read in topic after topic. I was actually concerned there are kids who want to march drum corps and we should do more to make that possible.
Back in Minnesota we had corps who were mainly adults, but they let younger family members march as well. I think they were the DCA corps people mentioned. So, I would think DCA would be less expensive and would take beginners, right? Or, is the issue that it's too expensive and risky to start a new corps trying to teach new people and make it inexpensive? Is that asking too much? I remember some of the corps who are no longer here, run by the Optimists Club, the Knights of Columbus, the VFW and American Legion, the Catholic Churches and the Boys Scouts. Many are gone or have lost their association with these groups. So, how do young people get their start in drum corps any more? Is DCA and school band the only places?
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I read more than I ever post. Over the weekend, I figured out how to post new topics (a potential danger here) and this is going to be my first try I think.
In reading, I see a divide between people who think DCI has destroyed drum corps the way it was when I started watching (even before there was a DCI, mind you) and others who see DCI more as changing and adapting with the times.
I see lots of discussion and energy arguing that I think could be used to start something new. If there are lots of kids who want to learn to play and march and want to do drum corps but they can't because:
1. It's too expensive.
2. It's too far away.
3. I can't be gone all summer.
4. I have to work too.
5. I don't know how to play.
6. I don't know how to march.
Then, why aren't there people out there doing this outside of the schools. Now, I have to admit...I don't talk to many kids as I used to, but my wife and I are still band boosters at our high school and we go two or three games a year and a couple of parades. We probably have around 60 kids in the HS band. The junior high has more than 90 this year. We do not have a corps within 500 miles of our school. But, I don't see many kids who want to play and march that aren't in the junior high and high school band already.
So, where are all these kids some of you keep talking about? And isn't there less expensive places they can march? And, if not, how do we get a corps and a local circuit started? Who would help?
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You can't be serious.
If memory serves Phantom was half a million in debt a few years back. They've fixed that issue, but it was an issue. Touring extensively could have been part of the mounting debt.
Last time Phantom came west they did not lose money. Their souvie sales were awesome. I had to wait in line for over 45 min. in Vista, CA...lots of young kids with their wallets out for a Phantom t-shirt.
I would think if a tour was well planned, it would not result in lost revenue. If it can't break even, why do it, right?
And if I believe what I was told about Phantom Regiment, their close to $500,000 debt was caused by many factors including trying to operate too many programs which were not breaking even. I was able to meet Mr. Rick Valenzuela a few years back. Didn't he used to be with Santa Clara? Anyway, I have friends in Illinois who give to Phantom and they said that Rick and other Board members and staff worked hard over the past 5-6 years to reduce and eliminate debt and the programs causing the debt. I didn't get the impression that any of it was touring related.
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And when I marched about 35 years ago we became a "corps style" band, with "ankle-knee" and "stride step" and horn ripples and stick snaps. We were state champs many times due to the discipline that DC instilled in us.
The ironic thing is that there's a (prevailing?) viewpoint that bands have caught up with and, in some views, replaced that which DC used to be to marching music programs. That suggests that, for whatever reasons and influences, DC didn't stay ahead of band programs in offering the pinnacle for which bands could reach. Many "show" bands, or "entertainment" bands, morphed into competing programs ala DC style. Ironically, the suggestion from some leaders is that DC should look more like marching bands because the two have become indistinguishable to the average person.
If "Zagging" when everyone else is "Zigging" has been, will be, or might be the path to avant guard leadership of the activity, what to do now to "Zag"?
Can we have a collective "Entertainment" Amen from the chorus, please?
Can anyone visualize a "Show Corps"?
Hmm...
In our local area 2 of the 3 band directors in our town came from drum corps. I am still a booster for our band and our director marched with a corps from Iowa, I think it was Knight Express? and also, his wife marched with another corps, I can't remember where right now. So, maybe it is all becoming one.
I read many people are wanting more entertaining shows. When I was in Indianapolis this summer, there was just something about some shows that made them more exciting to me. I believe the passion of the performers is this intangible something that can be felt by the crowd. So, when the kids believe in their show, when they are entertained by performing it, I think it makes a difference. I really felt a difference when Madison was on the field than I did when other corps either higher or lower than them were on the field. Sure, each show is different, but I think selling the members on their show, might be an important consideration some corps are missing.
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I'm TONY Signorelli... No relation to Sam although he did follow me through the BD ranks...
I do believe the product is doomed as competetive MB has essentially taken the place of DCI for many folks... The parents have a relationship with the band director and the program and off they go. It is easy for the parents to buy in because it is the kids school, so it must be good right? Because of the newer competetive nature of HS band kids get all the competition they need unless they are a total freak like ME!!! I had a huge competitive circuit in HS band but that wasn't enough... Although if my best friend and his brother hadn't made the jump to DC, then neither would I. So it takes quite the storm of activity and all the right factors in place for a band kid to even be interested in DCI...
I have been involved with my kids HS band for 8 years now... I have had 4 children pass through the local HS band program... I was lucky enough to get one of my son's to march in the Renegades with me for ONE season but he didn't want to come back... I have been lucky enough in those 8 years to have 3 HS band kids interested in DCI to the piont that I was able to help 2 of them get good enough to march SCVC and one of them was in SCV WC last season. But that is as many as I have been able to muster in the past 8 years. I speak from experience and from the anguish of trying to help out a dying breed!
To a great degree I believe you are correct. Drum corps will never replace a scholastic program and the local connections. When I was in band, over 40 years ago, our high school raised money so we could go to San Antonio to march in the parade there and spend the weekend. We were not a wealthy community, but money was raised for the trip and brand new uniforms. It became a community pride thing. Drum corps had some of that, but never as much as the local high school bands if they were run right.
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Actually, in this case, the money and the mouth are nowhere near the same place.
But hey, I'm glad some folks have decided that touring is sustainable after all. I only wonder what changed to cause this sudden reversal. Were there adjustments to DCI payouts for 2011? Are these top-8 shows going to have a different financial deal associated with them? The details on this, along with many other things, were supposed to be forthcoming just as DCI went inexplicably incommunicado a month ago.
I believe when Phantom was last west, it did not harm the corps financially. And I got to see them, that was while my wife was still alive. She was in a wheelchair and we sat on the sidelines...I think it was 2007. The drum major came over and shook our hands when they did the encore performance. I still have her Phantom ball cap which covered her balding head. Memories.
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Borders on?
Let's not mince words. The same man who started a firestorm that shook the foundations of DCI like nothing else ever has....all predicated on the baseless claim that the DCI tour was unsustainable....is now taking his corps coast-to-coast, and up/down the opposite coast, in a tour that may well set mileage records even for this corps, the corps that invented the cross-country tour back in 1950.
The term "hypocrisy" fits.
Dave Gibbs? You are talking about Gibbs, right? I believe George was the front man, but I also think Mr. Gibbs was pulling all the strings.
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BOLD PREDICTION.
Noone will complain about West Coast Inflation when Phantom comes out with a high score but folks will still ##### about BD being scored too high in June.
Take it to the bank.
With all the changes at Phantom, do you really think a high score is going to occur?
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The e-mail has been sent. I knew that show pretty well.
Not sure where you have been looking my man, but check out this video of Tito Puente:
The piece was originally written by a Puerto Rican composer, Rafael Hernandez.
I am a big fan of a Tito Puente song with Woody Herman and the Thundering Herd called "Mambo Herd." I think it would be good if a corps played it.
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The e-mail has been sent. I knew that show pretty well.
Not sure where you have been looking my man, but check out this video of Tito Puente:
The piece was originally written by a Puerto Rican composer, Rafael Hernandez.
I am a big fan of a Tito Puente song with Woody Herman and the Thundering Herd called "Mambo Herd." I think it would be good if a corps played it.
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will they be brave enough to stop in Phoenix?
I gotta believe Arizona would be one of the stops. Nice little show there in Phoenix from what I hear. I wonder if Albuquerque will be one of the stops...that's closest to me.
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I enjoyed Phantom's guard from time to time in the 90s..1993 was a pretty good year for them...1995 not so much. They held up cardboard tubes with fabric to try to form picture frames and I just didn't like it. Their uniform...I guess they call them costumes now...was purple and not at all flattering. They were good again in 1996 and the read dress was flawless. Then it started to decline...I remember them starting to get really young girls to march and would get former Pioneer guard to come march with them. It was getting harder and harder to maintain an all female guard and then...the Gershwin show introduced the first male guard member...the same year Madison had a girl in the guard.
Then it went co-ed. I thought they did an excellent job of storytelling with the guard...acting, I mean. Through last decade and even last year, the guard really helped tell the story of the show. Maybe they'll bring back some of the old moves as well!!!
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I live to serve the public.
"Shades"...the corps is going to be sponsored by Oakley, Inc.
Are they getting the same ones as the Chilean miners? Oakley Radar Range - black frame - black lenses. $450 each.
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I guess as I read this I am reminded of the discussions my friends and I have at coffee each morning. We get together at Greta's and there's usually 7 or 8 of us. Right now everyone is talking politics and I won't bore you all with the discussion, but many of these guys talk about the good old days and how much the country has been destroyed by the guy or that guy or not this guy but the last guy, etc.
I don't think the gold old days were the good old days. It was hard then too. If you were out of a job you struggled. Once you got back on your feet, you felt better. Then maybe you struggled again. I asked the group if any of them had gone through bankruptcy. We are all pretty close friends..went to school together...worked here all our lives. Out of the seven guys, three had gone through a bankruptcy back in the 70s. 3 of 7. So, I then asked if those were still the good old days...silence.
It's easy to talk platitudes about the past and see it all nostalgic. The past is great or not so great depending on what you choose to remember.
Sorry to ramble, just thought about this and wanted to share. Someone brought up the old broken down buses. Yeah, I worked on a few of those over the winter so they'd run come June. It was always a project and we needed to wait for this part of that part or even make a part. We always carried a couple big jugs of water for the radiator or to cool off the kids whoever needed it most. Those are the things I remember today.
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I know this....
I'm dying. A little more each day. Then spring comes and wafts of diesel fuel and I am alive again until September. Then it's a bit more death to come each and every year after.
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My wife and I still enjoy DCI shows. We've been fans for 39 years and I have loved drum corps since I was 8 in 1957! My first show was in Racine at Horlick Field. My dad and mom went to Racine Belles games there as well.
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Will an open class corps get paid the same as a world class corps if they make the top 25?
I remember this issue is why Division 2 and 3 corps were disallowed from performing in Division 1 championships, because some Div 2/3 corps were getting the payday for making semis when they hadn't put in a full tour.
My wife and I used to volunteer and cook for a week or two for an Open Class corps, they called them Div. II/III back in those days. We knew the director pretty well and after the show sometimes we'd return to the same housing and leave the next day. This allowed everyone, instructors, staff, volunteers to usually gather after the kids went to be and shoot the poop as it was. We'd have a cold soda or two and we really learned a lot from each other. I asked questions about support and money and from what I remember, Open Class basically has to cover their costs for stadium rental, DCI support, etc., then anything left over is divided among the corps based on their placement. I think that was how it went. So, if the total costs of running Open Class was $100 and the money generated from ticket sales, etc., was $80, then there would be $0 to divide and DCI would absorb the $20 in cost.
Can anyone else verify this. It was what a director discussed with me about 12-13 years ago. Is this still the case today?
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you hit on something here. running while playing whole notes isn't as hard as moving and playing a lot of notes. and 4 to 5 playing a whole should be weighted a little less than a 6 to 5 and even playing an 8th note passage.
but because visual has taken over so much of the game, anything you do with visual demand gets max credit
I am really torn about this. I look back at the older videos from the 1980s and early 1990s and I think about 1993-1994-1995, many of the shows found their "sweet spot" between the balance of the music and the visual parts of the program.
In the 1970s and early 1980s it was the music, not necessarily complicated music, but loud volume that I remember most. I don't remember the drill as much except for the "classic moves" each corps had...the sunburst, the Rockford files, the z-pull, the company front with high mark time. This is what I remember of the drill.
Funny thing for me...the drill is faster now, much faster. But, it isn't any more memorable than in the past to me. Sure, there are moments, that I remember, but no more than I did in the past. Some of the music is still memorable. A couple corps played Nimrod from the Enigma Variations by Edward Elgar. I love that music. I went out and bought an Elgar biography after hearing Blue Knights play it. Last time I did anything close to that was in 1995 when I heard Cavaliers play The Planets. I bought several CDs of Holst's music and still listen to them today.
So for me, I've always liked to music, but it is the football field and the drill that sets this apart from going to concerts, etc.
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I believe you're wrong. If DCI itself were posting content the issue is completely manageable. In fact the ad-revenue would generate a profit.
Don't believe this storyline being propagated that drumcorps and YouTube can't co-exist.
I can't begin to describe how big a fail it is to not be generating content for the tube.
Does DCI itself hold the performance rights to the music or do the corps? I honestly don't know. Also, if there is the YouTube for free how would DCI get a profit. Maybe I do not understand the You Tube. I just get a link in my email and I click it and it takes me there to watch a video. Is there something more to it? Does DCI make money on their Fan Network? My wife got me a subscription last year for my birthday and I really like that. I can watch videos from the 1970s and 1980s when I got to see more shows back then. It brought back good memories and I remembered some old friends.
Anyway, maybe I don't understand the YouTube. I think that DCI would be giving away videos for free instead of having people come to the Fan Network.
Drum Majors
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Just checked on this. Guess what? Music For All has a summer symposium that features the Parks Drum Major Camp. Looks like it would be in late June in Muncie, IN! My daughter will be so excited when she sees this when she gets home from school. She has a short day today because they have first semester finals this week. Thanks everyone.