victorcoly
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Posts posted by victorcoly
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Lots of innovative shows on the field in 2014 - however during the second half of the season, it is good to see mostly all judges using the sub captions as they're intended. Performance is performance no matter what the content or repertoire is and design / demand / exposure / content is just what those words mean!!
As someone else said, performance level does play into the content, etc sub caption. A GOOD judge will realize that and give the credit, or not give credit as it is due.The "anomaly" this season has been the GE caption. Depending on the judge, scores have been all over the map for EVERYONE. The intent of the NEW GE sheets is not being utilized as laid out in March 2014 by DCI and Archbishop Cesario. Unfortunately, the judges coming from more of a WGI aspect who are judging GE are weighting the visual aspects way more than the musical aspects, and the scores prove it. Is that good or bad? If the same "scoring trend" continues in 2015, it's bad. If not, then the tweaking of the GE caption will serve the activity well.
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There have been a few "new names" judging the regionals and super regionals this season as well as tour of champions events. Usually many of those judges end up on the finals week panels. Doubling up the GE panels (4 judges), and having 2 percussion judges will make the judges list interesting.
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That would be Rhythm in Blue... Not "Artistry"
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If you can't see the amazing quality of Crown, Cadets, and Blue Devils that's your problem. Judges are doing a fine job evaluating the amazing talent on display, and it's unfortunate that you chose to show your love for the activity by slagging the activity. Why not just talk about the joy Bluecoats' show brings you? Or how awesome you think the design is, or how great the members are performing the show right now? Why drag the conversation to the depths of garbage by calling competitors mediocre, or questing competence of judging?
Hey perc.... where in my initial posting did I call competitors mediocre?? My issue is the JUDGING is mediocre!!!! Truth be told, I think I said the following....
.................."Lots of great shows on the field this season!!! Very innovative programs and also programs that are truly beyond our years!!! Who would have thought any corps would do some nifty percussion-related stuff on car mufflers? Or that "tilting" a field would garner such a HUGE crowd reaction!!! How about that Don Ellis music still pertinent after all of these years!!! Swan Lake.... still fits that Rockford based group very well!!! The "Green Machine" fast becoming the machine again in 2014!!! Copland.... still tugs at your heart when FHNSAB cranks out those chords!!!"........
Hmmmm.... calling things mediocre??
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I'll disagree with that. Percussion is truly the one caption that doesn't slot by name.It's also the one sheet where the judge isnt afraid to throw out a spread
Jeff - I'll agree with you to this degree. There are currently five (5) percussion judges on DCI's active roster that do not slot by name. The rest of them not only slot by name, but they have turned it into a true art form. And as you know, I come from 30 plus years of percussion experience.
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you have several WGI percussion folks judging as well.Andif WGI does one thing well, they judge the show of the day
Too bad the WGI percussion folks as well as the other WGI folks don't carry that "show of the day" mind set over to the DCI realm!!
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Translate: the judges aren't doing what I think they should, so its political.
It can't possibly be that some corps draw different talent and have stronger staffs than others.
actucker.... your statements prove my point more than you realize!!
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Spending 5 minutes on fromthepressbox...
Crown won last year and was 6th in percussion.
In 2012 the 2nd and 3rf place corps were 6th and 7th in percussion, while the 2nd place percussion corps was 6th overall.
Overall Cavies went from 3rd in 2011 to 8th in 2012.
Regiment won in 08 and were 9th in 09.
Cadets 1st in 05 to 5th in 06
Blue Knights 6th in 2000 to 14th in 2001.
Coats 3rd in 2010 to 7th in 2011
Your examples don't prove the point. The point is it is NOT happening consistently anymore. Since you mentioned names..... yes, Crown's drum line deserved to be 6th. But what about at semi-finals when they "magically" scored above a 19 for the first time ever in the season, and their battery was nowhere near justifying that score??
We can throw numbers around all day, but as I entitled the thread... gone are the days when on any given day or night - no matter the quality of the performance.... there are green shirts on the roster that are afraid to do the right thing.
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"Quiet please!"
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I can always tell when the corps are in the midwest and one or more of their local favorites are "more entertaining" and "not getting the credit they deserve"
Reminds me of Star of Indiana getting booed constantly because Madison and their ten company fronts per show didn't win
George - from my vantage point, this has nothing to do with "not getting the credit they deserve" as much as it does the too many names on DCI's judging roster who are....... dare I say it.... wait for it.... wait for it.... AFRAID of letting certain units "fall below" a certain score or placement. But the Right Honorable Cesario himself during a March 2014 interview regarding the new GE sheets / judging that the judges would now be able to evaluate more like an audience member. If that's the case, THEN DO IT!!!
Furthermore.... if judges are supposedly "trained" in their craft, then the "content" subcaptions should be treated similar to the old "demand" captions, which isn't happening.
Let's face it - also gone are the days when any given unit could win brass or percussion at any given show (or place in the top 3), and not win overall. No - I'm NOT saying go back to the tic system, but I dare anyone on today's rosters to tell me that they would have no problem scoring a top 3 corps in 4th place or lower in any given caption if the performance merited it!
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A huge factor is the WGI influence. The Blue Devils staff is very influential in the winter guard idiom and the entire visual panel from both the Denver and Lacrosse panel wish to continue judging winter guards, as do all the caption heads. I have been told if you are out of the perceived norm at a WGI show you are required to do a inquisition type conference. This leads to tight spreads, politically safe placements and often a less accessible show to the paying audience. It also counteracts the concept that on any given day team A can beat team b,c,or d or vice versa. Change the judge leadership from the Artistic Director down, make caption heads be from outside the WGI activity or at least most of them and actually make the activity what it has previously been, a fair youth activity designed to entertain the public
Ah yes.... the "clandestine" way to secure a spot on the WGI roster!!!!!
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Having read the new sheets plenty of times, I still completely fail to see how the Bluecoats aren't crushing everyone in GE. They're generally hit or miss with me, and this year is about as big of a HIT as I've experienced in this activity. Crown was the logical ruler of that caption last year, and I understood why (and freaking loved it). What am I missing here?
Communication? Vocabulary? Achievement? Simultaneous responsibilities? Uniformity? Musicality in visual design? Cohesive package? Demand?
Check.
Or do they just need to put on the BD uniform and claim that caption? Devs are ahead of them in some performance captions and deservedly so. They're phenomenal, and I'm really loving their product. I suppose I just need to understand that big 'un of a caption that is General Effect a little better. Can anyone help?
Plus the GE sheets contain the words, "engage the audience," and "audience engagement." Can't figure out how multiple standing "O's" during any corps show isn't "eganging" the audience, while the shows getting "golf claps" is at low Box 5.....
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IMcomguy.... You have no doubt how accurate you are mentioning those three letters.... W. G. I.
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Hi all..... It's been awhile since I've posted.... Hope everyone is doing well and enjoying the 2014 season!! Lots of great shows on the field this season!!! Very innovative programs and also programs that are truly beyond our years!!! Who would have thought any corps would do some nifty percussion-related stuff on car mufflers? Or that "tilting" a field would garner such a HUGE crowd reaction!!! How about that Don Ellis music still pertinent after all of these years!!! Swan Lake.... still fits that Rockford based group very well!!! The "Green Machine" fast becoming the machine again in 2014!!! Copland.... still tugs at your heart when FHNSAB cranks out those chords!!!
Lest we forget to mention the competitive nature of our activity..... Yes, to an overwhelming majority - current members, alumni, and fans alike - those scores still matter.
Unfortunately, gone are the days where the likes of Dr. Bernie Baggs, Rod Goodhart, Paul Wojtena, Dave Lorenzi, Shirlee Whitcomb, Judy Tomko and a host of others truly cared about being accurate about those scores they placed on a sheet. Gone are the days when folks like Karson Klund, Dallas Niermeyer, Gene Monterastelli, and Bill Doyle called a spade a spade and their score reflected the actual quality of a groups performance of a particular day or night.
Gone are the days when any unit could score higher than another "particular" unit after a certain point during the season. Not only in overall score, but in the various captions as well.
I still love the activity and seeing the young people involved push themselves to new limits. Unfortunately those charged with evaluating them, and those in charge of those evaluating them have lost the ability of distinguishing mediocrity from excellence on any given day. No matter if it's June 23rd, or August 9th!!-
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artist at slotting? he;'s the only person yesterday to not have a single sub box tie! You have people with 10-12 sub box ties, some had 3way sub ties. Give me a break. Marty knows his ####.
Jeff - never said Marty didn't know his "stuff," however the "artist at slotting" comment was primarily due to him giving Crown the number he did. No way on a Fugett sheet (judging tonight), or Prosperie sheet (finals judge) Crown's performance last night at prelims touches an 18.
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Speaking of which, what is the judging panel for the Semi's today ? Anybody know ?
General Effect Visual: Kyle Miller, Frank Morris
General Effect Music: Nola Jones, Ken Turner
Visual: Juno Orefice
Visual Analysis: Tim Ochran
Color Guard: Debbie Torchia
Brass: Mark McGahey
Music Analysis: Jay Kennedy
Percussion: Glenn Fugett
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Dude...come on...really? You can really sit there and say that BD's drumcline should not be in the top 4? REALLY? And that Bluecoats line last night was better than SCV? Come on man...don't let the blind hate and homerism make you look silly.
Look silly?? Blind hate??? Hardly....
Been around the activity far too long to know what's crankin' and what's not. Cadets, Bluecoats, SCV cranked.... BD only "cranks" when standing still. That, Mr. "Apathy" is reality that can be seen on the Fan Network, or the DVD's when they come out.
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blueisola - top priority on mostly all of the "effect" sheets is "engage the audience."
I didn't see Blue Devlis do that at all last night to anyone in the theatre where I wasm nor did I hear much reaction from the crowd at Indy either.
Crowd went nuts for Scouts, SCV, Cadets, Crown, and to a certain extent, Bluecoats and Blue Knights as well.
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Blue Devils "levitated" about 40 people out of the theatre last night out of the 60 or so that were there.
Plus following their show, it seemed as though the audience at Indy tried to be polite while "applauding."
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Glenn will make the right call based on clarity (execution) of the ensembles tonight. My 2 cents, Cadets were SMOKIN' Thursday night, and SCV had an "off" night. While I appreciate BD's show design, I am at a loss as to why they were even in the top 3 / 4 percussion wise. Their battery tacets for 40 sexs to 1 min 30 secs at times, and they play easy "content" when on the move.
Placement Thurs should have been #1-Cadets; #2 Bluecoats (yes I am an alum, but they truly played nice Thurs); #3 SCV; #4- BD.
Unfortunately, gone are the days when perc judges (or most any judge) will "score" a corps low enough to drive them out of a "slot."
As for Marty Griffin...... he's becoming a true "artist" at slotting over the last 2-3 years.
Crown's percussion ens will make or break their title hopes.
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Yes, it's been a while since I've been on DCP. No, this will not be an "old school" rant.
What it will be is my own opinion as a former marching member, staff member, and fan - all of the aforementioned spanning 34 years.
Yes, I have my own "opinion" on the direction the activity is going / has gone over the last 6 or so years. However the musicianship and athleticism of EVERY corps that performed in World Class prelims is to be commended!! There's no way I could keep up for 3 minutes marching some of the drills of today, let alone play a drum while trying!!!
I also have my "opinion" on how some of the current judges gracing DCI's roster rank / score their respective captions. However, the varying "products" they are evaluating is not easy to rank, let alone evaluate.
Given the above items - I will offer my opinion on Thursday's results. And I am sure many of you will post comments / responses.
I am at a loss as to how the prelims judges could draw a distinction between Cadets, Crown and SCV from an "effect" standpoint placing ANY of those three below Blue Devils. I am NOT saying BD is not worthy of top 3 placement - however their program offering for 2013 prelims left almost all of the 100 people in the theatre where I was wondering how BD scored higher than Crown or Cadets.
Musically - BD, Crown and Cadets could place #1 (although it is highly possible that Crown's percussion challenges could cost them a DCI title). SCV from a musical standpoint cannot be ignored from top 3 placement. Their musical offering was the most emotional by far.
Bluecoats - energy all the way!!! Percussion-wise.... Canton should be in the top 3 with SCV and Cadets (sorry ScoJo, but when it comes to the "content" portion of the percussion sheet, your roster isn't close to SCV / Cadets / or Blooo). Visually, Bluecoats still need to iron out issues there.
PR / Cavies / Madison - all three remember what "crowd appeal" is, and they never let a crowd down. I hope in 2014, these three units kick up their performance levels. If that happens, the top 5 corps could do a wholesale change, and these three be among that group.
BK / Boston and Blue Stars..... accept for some "huh?" moments, I think all three have talent, which if it all remains with each of them, could produce some GREAT corps going forward!!
That's it for now.....
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M. Kelly and D. Niebauer - Visual Effect
Joe Alison and J. Harper - Music Effect
M. Thompson - Visual Proficiency
Ken Giese – Visual Analysis
G. Oliviero – Color Guard
G. Boulden – Brass
A. Cook – Music Analysis
M. Griffin – Percussion
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This panel bodes well for SCV and Cadets at the top!!!!
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I agree with most of whats in your "Open Letter" but I feel compelled to ask: Did you send this letter to any of the G7 directors or is it just another rant on DCP?
SFZFAN - I actually sent an email to the entire DCI board that encompassed what I wrote on DCP plus some addtitional thoughts (which will not be shared here).
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So which is it? Is there some sort of invidious, super-natural mind control going on here where one director forces the other six to consent? Extortion maybe? Or perhaps a hoax? Or - it's a reasonable alternative - there actually is consensus among the seven?
HH
HH - not likely super-natural mind control, but Hopkins has been known to over-step his boundaries and thinks he "speaks" for more voices than he really does at times.
Furthermore - I would be more supportive of Hopkins / G7 of they put forth a decent proposal on how to improve and enhance the activity both now and into the future. What I am tired of is the "my sandbox" mentality, and the "do it this way or we'll take our horns / drums / guard equipment and go elesewhere" attitude!!! Hopkins / Fiedler / Gibbs et all have enjoyed a decent career and earned a decent living from the activity and involvement in DCI. Yes - they are stake holders. Yes - they should have a voice. However the banter and "do it this way or else" crap is ridiculous, and in some ways lacks maturity. It also shows a pattern in Hopkins case of decreased credibility, and part of me questions why the 12 YEA board members allow him to act in a manner somewhat detrimental to the health of the drum corps activity.
To date, I've seen NOTHING from Hopkins / G7 directors that proposes future viability and sustainability of the activity!! Last I checked, most corporations / organizations who have boards of directors engage in proactive thought processes on how to improve and / or enhance their respective entities (in this case DCI). We've not seen anything resembling this from Hopkins or any G7 directors. Kind of puts their "credibility" on the same level as the U.S. Congress, huh?
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Ed Warren - DCI Visual Judge
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
It's been a while since I've read / reviewed topics here, and I did not see anything mentioned yet on this.
Ed Warren, DCI Visual judge for many years (since the early 1990's) passed away suddenly on Monday May 11th. For those who knew Ed, he could be counted on to give positive, direct, and accurate feedback / numbers throughout his judging career.
Ed's long DCI judging career was highlighted by him judging during DCI finals week as follows: the 1992 Division II prelims in Madison, WI; 1992 Division I Quarterfinals in Madison; 1993 Division I Semi-finals in Jackson, MS; 1994 Division III Prelims in Lowell, MA; 1994 Division II/III Finals in Lowell, MA; 1997 Division I Finals in Orlando, FL; 2000 Division I Quarterfinals in College Park, MD; 2001 Division I Semi-finals in Buffalo, NY; 2004 Division I Quarterfinals in Denver. CO; 2004 Division I Finals in Denver, CO; 2005 Division I Quarterfinals in Foxboro, MA; 2009 World Class Quarterfinals in Indianapolis, IN; 2010 Open Class Finals in Indianapolis, IN.
Simply put, you don't judge during finals week over an almost 20 year period on a consistent basis unless you know what you're doing. And Ed knew what he was doing!!
Ed also marched in junior corps in the 1970's, and also designed and taught for many drum corps and high school units over the past 25 years. Most recently with the Kilties of Racine, WI.
I was fortunate to meet Ed six years ago, and since that time, Ed became a trusted friend and fellow judge. His advice and support is something I am grateful for, and something I will dearly miss.
I can only guess how many thousands of lives Ed Warren came in contact with over the last 25-30 years, and likely hundreds more before that. It's hard to fathom that Ed was taken from us so suddenly, but it makes it all the more important to CHERISH each and every person we meet in the activity, and NOT forget to tell them how grateful we are!!
Rest in peace, Ed Warren. Many of us left here on earth will do our level best to continue the legacy of excellence in your memory. Thoughts and prayers to Ed's wife, Peggy and son James who he loved dearly.