dapperpoet
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Posts posted by dapperpoet
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Um....not sure where you're getting your history from, but Rite was not hated at all when it came out. At the end of the premiere night, Stravinsky had to come back out multiple times to keep taking bows because of the response. Yes, people were arguing in the seats, but to say it was hated is not true at all.
Also, let's not get ahead of ourselves calling BD's show a masterpiece. :p it's good for sure, but maybe not masterpiece level
You're right. Totally don't know what I'm talking about. From Wikipedia: "The demonstrations, he says, grew into "a terrific uproar" which, along with the on-stage noises, drowned out the voice of Nijinsky who was shouting the step numbers to the dancers.[56]
Dancers in Nicholas Roerich's original costumes. From left, Julitska, Marie Rambert, Jejerska, Boni, Boniecka, Faithful
Monteux believed that the trouble began when the two factions in the audience began attacking each other, but their mutual anger was soon diverted towards the orchestra: "Everything available was tossed in our direction, but we continued to play on". "
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this
By the way, is everyone missing the irony that Le Sacre du Printemps caused riots and everyone hated it? How did that work out historically? Just back from Paris and Rome where the museums are stuffed with art that was hated when it was debuted. BD may see their mission as to create art, not to please the crowds. Historically, that has not been a bad attitude to take. Whose responsibility is it to "get it"? The people who create masterpieces or those who view them?
I also think that the fact that I got a "negative" within seconds of posting this sums up the forward thinking open minds of some people here.
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**Yawn**
So to sum up:
1. Blue Devils get favored treatment from the judges and they're a bunch of cheaters (and were apparently so in San Antonio too)
2. If they only did the same shows they did 20 years ago people would like them a lot more.
3. They're losing sleep because people are cheering for other corps to win instead of them.
This post could have been made every year for the last (fill in the blank) number of years. Maybe they've just figured it out. Oh, and the gap will widen in Indy.
Keep your riots to yourself.
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I am staging my own little protest an not attending any of shows in either Allentown or Indianapolis. Have been a regular to both shows. I am tired of the same old crap and the catering to the almighty G7. And I think at least 2 of those shows are not on the level of some of the non G7.
By Gum, that'll show 'em.
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Other opportunities outside of DCI would provide the Staff of Star to work collaboratively with the Canadian Brass, and opportunities for shows to be presented at the Univ. of Indiana that would be commercially driven, and allow them ultimately to produce shows where the " judges " of their efforts would be national and International audiences, not a few DCI " judges ". Thus, the Star of Indiana staff decided to unilaterally withdraw their particiation in DCI styled competition. Thats what seems to have transpired anyway.
I am compelled by the secret oath administered during my two graduations: It is not the University of Indiana, it is, in fact, Indiana University. I know it's a d**k move, but they would track me down if I didn't say something.
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But most importantly, it provided a creative and learning environment that spawned a whole generation future instructors and designers. Personally I call that more then longevity. I call that legacy.
This is the most eloquent and well-written piece I have read here for some time. One thing you fail to mention is that in doing my graduate work in Bloomington form '95-'03 and having had our kids in the Bloomington schools music programs, it is impossible to overstate what a large impact people associated with Star have had and continue to have on the community. Ripples in a pond- my son, who attended a summer band program sponsored by Star aged out with Devils and is currently, in his first year out, visual staff for a top 12 corps. His high school band was taught by people who had been with Star (when my daughter was there, the assistant director was Frank Sullivan).
Thanks for a wonderful and thoughtful piece.
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Can anybody tell me which corps are hosting educational camps this month and please attach a link? Thanks
So, basically, you want someone else to use Google for you?
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not everyone can be a superb parent... I wouldn't blame yourself too much. I'm sure you did your best.
HOW DARE YOU. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO I AM. ENOUGH OF THE AD HOMINUM ATTACKS. IF YOU ARE INCREDIBLY LUCKY, YOU WILL HAVE CHILDREN AS WONDERFUL AS MINE, AND A RELATIONSHIP AS GOOD AS I HAVE WITH THEM. I COULD TAKE PAGES LISTING THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOUR WILLINGNESS TO MAKE A STATEMENT LIKE THAT WITHOUT KNOWING ME AT ALL.
Why don't you read this post and tell me how terrible a parent I am?
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Well...
What do you mean by "Crown fans"?
I meant people wearing Crown hats, t-shirts and holding up signs for MMs who the yellers (and booers) implied were related to them. Any more of their psychology I cannot comment on.
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How proud you must be!
If any of my children had posted that (and they are close to DCI age), I'd immediately learn one thing... that I failed in raising them on how to be a gracious and classy winner. I'd also ask them delete the comment and apologize profusely. I then wouldn't go on the internet and say "look at what my son said!
But that's just me.
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again
Matthew 7, 1-2
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Posting personal information from your child that really does nothing but perpetuate a stereotype that Devs only care about winning and pumping up the ego?
Well, of course, I don't look at it that way. I think there might be more than one way of looking at the same expression. As the sage Ralph Waldo Emerson tells us, "But the old oracle said, `All things have two handles: beware of the wrong one.' " The American Scholar.
The reason why I posted it in ....ahem.... a thread about booing was to show that sometimes booing has the opposite effect than the hurt for which it was intended. If you don't get that, and can't understand the logic, fair enough.
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I wouldn't want to be booed for a score or position, but it's not like there is only one drum corps in the world. If a corps member doesn't want to be put into that position, no one is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to stay with their corps. If I hadn't liked the direction my corps was going in, I wouldn't have stuck around to suffer through it. We're adults, paying money to do this. If you don't like how things are working in the corps, you can take your money and go somewhere else.
I also don't remember ever being in the stadium for scores unless it was Finals. I don't think we were even in the stadium for scores when we did encores. Like others have said, people aren't booing mid-show or right after the performance. That would be ridiculous, and the least classy thing the drum corps world has seen.
I'm hoping that the person who originally posted that quote from a member regrets it, but with the Internet, there is no taking things back. Kind of a flaw of the system.
Look, I'm a smart guy. A college professor, with a Ph.d. in human development, learning cognition, and instruction. I'm trying to find one reason in all I know about human motivation and attitude that says I should regret what I posted.
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Points that cannot be argued:
1. Crown fans booed BD at the world championship, and then stampeded out before the encore. I was a BD parent in 2011 and heartily cheered for Cadets and stayed for the encore. It was an excellent, and deservedly winning show.
2. A MM in a drum corps that had been harshly criticized for their show, their uniforms, their props, their marching ability, and pretty much everything else that could be possibly criticized for wins the world championship and is undefeated, has every right in the world to say, "Despite all of that, despite all of the booing and the nay-saying, we triumphed even when a large part of the activity hoped we wouldn't" and uses FYWW to symbolize that has every right to say it. If you don't like them, beat them.
3. How did I feel about it as a parent? I thought it was a healthy mentality to have. Throughout his whole life people will be telling him that he can't do something, that he shouldn't even try, that dreams are for dreamers. I hope he never loses that particular chip on his shoulder.
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I follow Philly teams, so I'm familiar with booing...though we usually boo our own.
Look, you can try and clamp down and make drum corps the super happy shiny place where everyone is happy, and no one boos.
Then I'll laugh at you and tell you to join reality.
I don't condone it, but people will boo. Question...Madison still gets the boos when their score is announced treatment, not as much as they did in the 90s, but it still happens...why aren't people freaking out then?
People pay money to see something, and if they are unhappy with the results, they may boo. Cool or not, it's human nature, and while we all like to show proper decorum and common courtesy, well, let's be real...common courtesy is kind of a dying art in the US anyways. I just today I held a door open for several people at Panera...not one thank you. I even smiled, and to the last one I said "you're welcome".
When you combine the arts, which have passionate fans, and scores, which leads to passion as well, people will do what they do. To try and police it is assinine, and I'm sorry, but if fans booing the judges results hurts some 22 year olds widdle feelings, grow the #### up. You'll face far worse in the real world, hell, your staff probably said worse to you on the field during the summer.
The sooner people realize all of the above, and stop trying to make drum corps the "everybodys a winner" activity, the better off we'll all be.
I'm sure I'll get red marks for this. I don't care.l It's a blunt force trauma people need to be smacked with. My kid may get booed someday when the crowd doesnt like that her corps won. Know what she'll say?
"####ers, let em boo, I won".
Just like her daddy did in 1996 when my world title was booed in someone else's hometown.
I do find it hysterical that BD losing in NorCal was booed. Seeing the blue kool aiders try to justify it, vs past justificationsfor regional bias, uneducated fans etc is hysterical.
Son's (Blue Devil age out) Facebook status the day after finals last year: "FYWW"
Google at will.
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An excellent post by the original poster. One thing people have addressed very little is the incredible education value of this year's Crown vs. BD debate. What is art? What does it mean to do art beautifully but in a way that challenges traditional views of art? What does it mean to take a concept and push it? I was appalled at the behavior of many fans at the show last night. Crown has a very tight connection with Indiana (Avon High school has been a big feeder for them, the Van Dorens at Bloomington South, the Star connections, etc). Also, there is no denying that Crown's show was more conventional and that always pleases more people. But that is not a reason to get up before the performance of one of the great corps in the history of DCI. I loved BD's show last year, and of course, was biased because I loved Spirit and Boston when my kid marched there too. But there is a reason that I heard the kids and staffs of all three of those corps refer to "the morons on drum corps planet". Look at the invective, the anti-scientific logic (lots of people I know say it's so, so it must be...all my friends feel this way so show X sucks). This place does not, by and large, represent the current state of knowledge of the activity. It's populated by people who would love to bring back the tic system and G bugles and marching tympani. Look at the attacks and anger directed at people, at corps, even at specific kids (witness the attacks on the Spirit bass player during the 2009 season).
I have come to this place in the past for information, for informed opinion, for a connection with something that I have loved ever since I saw the Cavaliers horn line step over the guard at Northrup High School in Ft. Wayne when I was sixteen. Although I was married at 20 and had financial responsibilities that precluded me from considering drum corps, I have always loved it.Teaching at a small school in New Hampshire, I showed the PBS tapes to my students. I love that my son had a chance to march. And it is not at all about winning and losing- if Crown had been on top last night I would have been disappointed for my son, but I would have applauded and stuck around for the encore, unlike the dozens of people wearing Crown garb who yelled "that sucks, we were robbed" that I personally witnessed last night. I thought Crown had a wonderful show. I have always loved their sound. I encouraged my kid to audition for them. But he took his own successful path, and just like Devils this season, refused to listen to the "wisdom" of the past. All of the shouting about people leaving the fan base and taking their wallets with them grossly overestimates their own self-importance. Go to your job tomorrow and ask 50 people what they thought about this weekend's results. If more than one or two even know what you're talking about, it's a good day for DCI.
This year it's been tough to be the parent of a BD kid and watch thread after thread started by a very few people who then post 6 or 8 or 10 times within that thread the same thing, over and over. They hate the show. That's not supportive, that's not informational, that's not growing intellectually. If you don't like the show, I understand completely, What I don't understand is how saying something 50 or 60 times in a week makes you more right than someone who disagrees with you. Believe it or not, I did my dissertation on an online setting not unlike DCP. One of the basic findings was that when such a place no longer meets the goals of a user, they leave. Such is the case for me now. I have loved talking to many of you. I know that much of what I find shrill and objectionable is merely passion from the hearts of people who, if I were to meet them in real life, I would like and be glad to have a beer with.
But for now, I hope people here treat each other and the corps of kids who, if they didn't march, WOULD end the existence of DCI AND DCP more gently. I loved Michael Boo's stuff, I loved the connection I have made with other parents sharing similar experiences. I loved hearing the results come in here and being able to say how much I loved other corps and the ones I cheer for. But, unlike the posters in the other thread, I choose to love and support DCI and leave this place to people with stronger stomachs than me. I know no one cares. I get that. Have a great 2013 season. I hope all the kids in all the corps have even a part of the fabulous experience my kid has in marching for the last 5 years, and that I have had being a fan for the last 35. I hope people relax a little bit here and open their minds.
In order for this endeavor that we all love to grow and continue, it cannot be judged continuously by the standards and dictates that existed the first time I ever saw drum corps, just as we as people must continuously try to change and improve ourselves. I leave with two final thoughts:
1. In the words of Shaw paraphrased by Edward Kennedy in the eulogy of his just-killed brother Robert, "Some men see things as they are and say why? I dream things that never were and say why not?"
2. From Emerson's "Self-Reliance, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood."
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I just got a memo from all the corps directors and MMs. They are officially not going to sleep tonight.
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Congratulations to Thomas, Dan, on his world championship win.
Thanks. I'm just back from the show and still buzzing. It's a moment in time that I will never forget, and that will never come again.
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Thank you all for your kind words. By the way, Thomas is the really tall, really blond contra player for BD if you would like to send some positive vibes his way tonight...that would be groovy.
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Six years ago we sat high up in Atlanta. You were a high school sophomore. I said to you, “You know, you could do this next year.”
Since then and tonight there have been tens of thousands of miles, hundreds of rehearsals, football fields from California, to Minnesota to Boston to San Antonio. You played finals your first year two blocks from your house in Bloomington.
Tonight, after kissing your head and telling you how proud I am and how much I love you, I want to say that you have already done so much more than lots of those kids sitting through their senior years with you this fall at Auburn have done. You know how to keep your mouth shut and do what is necessary, not what you want to do all the time. You know how to work and work to get better when you knew from the first camp there was no chance of even being a finalist. You know how to finish a show at midnight, catch a few hours of bad sleep on a bus, and greet another morning and a 40 pound contra with a smile. Heat sirens in San Antonio. Crackers and pudding for supper. Rehearsal in pouring rain. The humidity of Monroe, Louisiana. You learned that sometimes it’s not the leaders of an organization that you kill yourself for, it’s the kid in the next bus seat.
Finally, tonight, you know excellence and being within touching distance of perfection. You know what it is to rise to the highest levels of an activity and be humble. And talk about getting better tomorrow. You know how to be in first place at semi-finals after an undefeated season and say to me, “Wow, that was a rough run tonight. Gotta get better tomorrow.”
Your first year at Spirit it was 110 degrees with the heat index. You were 16 and away from home for the first time. The lights in the gym would not turn off at night. The air conditioning in the school worked sporadically. You hurt your back. You had every reason to quit, but you didn’t. Every one of those beautiful tan faces of all the kids in all the corps tonight could tell a similar story. As you said, at sixteen, “There comes a time when some people stand up and some people quit. I didn’t quit.”
Many, many people never learn that lesson in a lifetime.
Please remember on the blue days to come (we all have them) that you are a champion, that you not only know what excellence is, you have achieved it. That you made yourself the incredible person you are because you tried to make each run through better, each performance the best.
I love you Thomas.
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Yawn. Saw a fabulous show tonight. Sorry it's all so upsetting to you. Hope it all turns out okay for you and yours.
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Duh. Moderators please change title appropriately.
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I do not believe this is true.
I know this is not the point of this thread, but since it has a somber tone I do want to bring an important fact. Many local/smaller corps have a harder time succeeding, not because of DCI, but because of high school band programs. Obviously I am not stating the high school programs are bad, but I am stating that they have replaced local drum corps. When you couple that with the fact that many high school programs cost more to participate than drum corps did 20 or 30 years ago, and you have students that have to make a choice. Many do not want to pay multiple thousands of dollars to tour Open Class or not have a shot at making Finals. I am not saying everyone has this mentality, but there is a reason why kids who get cut from the top groups don't go and try and fill a spot in a lower placing group. Many kids feel like their marching band program is better than a lot of the Open Class groups (not saying it is true, but I know this to be the thought process)... so when they do not make the group they want, they are content with just participating in their marching band until the next year's auditions.
I guess what I am saying is, yes, the national touring model has made it so it is harder to stay in business, but at the same time, it is what the customers (the kids auditioning) want. I do not think it is necessarily DCI as an organization that has lead to these groups folding. Some of it was just because of some TERRIBLE finacial decisions. Most of the others was simply due to lack of interest in their programs. It is true that most drum corps do not teach kids how to play instruments anymore, but that is mostly because they do not have to anymore. Kids get it for a relatively cheap price in the middle school programs.
Just my thoughts. Sorry if I derailed the thread with this.
Of the thousands of words I've seen written on this, the above is clear, well-reasoned, and based on actual data. Generously and well said.
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If BD Wins, We Riot!
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by dapperpoet
Masterful. Got me there. I could include the full references if you'd like, but that would, you know, involve doing research, which is antithetical to enjoyment.