Stick Stack
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Posts posted by Stick Stack
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here we go...
well first of all, are you saying the trained and payed judges 2 weeks prior, to the vegas regional were stupid and wrong for having arcadia over 2 points under the block, as opposed to 3 points over the block????? yeah that makes sense, and as to your last comment... trained and payed judges dont put shows together.... they cant!! thats why they judge...and i would love to know what shows you put together after your stint at revolution d&bc. perhaps you can send me some of your work to enlighten me? i would like that much.The assertion that judges can't teach...that's a common misconception. I am 100% positive that some judges can't design a good show, but I am also positive that some judges design shows and design them well. (In different realms, some DCI judges design winter guard shows and vice versa, and/or marching band) Or they've been designers before. I am also positive that there are people in this world who can perform but can't teach, people who can teach but can't perform, people who can teach but can't judge properly and all variation there of.
Also, if you read the FAQS section of WGI, you'll see that they've already covered themselves by answering your question of why scores are so different, even between prelims and finals. To paraphrase a little bit, they won't always have consistent scoring, but the goal is to have consistency in ranking. In other words, the guards should always rank in a similar fashion in each show unless good and bad performance dictates otherwise. The judges are human, and make mistakes, but the key thing that they are going for is ranking. It's the same case if a guard has a better show yet their score goes down. It's clearly not that they got worse. The scores are somewhat relative.
Also, you don't need to design a show to have an opinion. Of course, it may validate it, but please try and keep this open of discussion where anybody can voice their feelings.
Also, Warren Central is ranked first on Guardbuzz.com, scoring a block score in their second week. In my opinion, this does not constitute them as a mediocre open guard.
However, as it is world class, guards should be striving to push the boundaries and challenge the creativity of the design team and it's members. Hopefully, these guards will be rewarded properly and ranked appropriately. But also, it is certainly not the only factor that goes into scoring. This is why Arcadia is doing well. The backhanded thing might be a recurring theme, but they still do it really well.
Plus, at what point does a signature move need to be taken out? Perhaps they use it as a means of identity. Is identity such a bad thing to have? In a strive for creativity, should a guard lose everything that makes them who they are?
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No offense taken, very wel put. :)
I think what I was tryinig to say was that the judges have the ability to mold the activity, even if they don't mean to. I would say that judges could create unintended consequences as a result of their scores. Therefore whether the judging community means to or not, inadvertantly, they can direct corps to behave in certain ways to be competetive, dictating design. Thus inadvertantly dictating how the activity will progress through rewarding certain aspects of show design.
(Well, it made sense to me - not meaning to take over your thread)
My only complaint about fan participation would be that fan polling of any kind may lead to programming that is targeted at the lowest common denominator. This could discourage intellectual shows, but it's hard to tell. I like the idea that something different should be done, but I'd be afraid that an entire band might vote for a corps because their director or staffers have a connection with it.
I seem to recall they tried the whole fan's favorite system of voting at a show in Florida in 2001. Can't really remember the details, and I'm not really sure how it turned out, can't remember.
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Beating a dead horse: Imagine 'Faust' without Faust. Meaning, replay the PR show without all the extraneous stuff. Same music, but without all the GE-centered, judge-dictated fluff that was the story of Faust imposed on unrelated music. If the guard simply performed weapons and silks and didn't have to portray a "concept," the show still stands as a truly great show. Kind of akin to the most recent previous 2nd place offering PR fielded.
Would Machine be able to stand the same under similar circumstances? Again, good show, and I called it the winner right after San Antonio and they proved me right the rest of the summer. But if you take the theme/concept of Machine out of the show and simply make the guard perform weapons and silks (kind of requires the GE scoring to be apportioned differently for this scenario to come about), does Machine win?
I don't feel like the storyline and conceptual ideas are judge-dictated or imposed. You see storyline and conceptual "Fluff" if you wanna call it in a wide variety of things that aren't even judged! (Dance, theatre, television shows, Movies) The question is, would the designers still design shows with full concepts instead of designing because of musical selection? I would think that there would still be plenty of conceptual shows. The concept adds texture, depth, meaning. Without any meaning behind it, both of these shows would have much less meaning behind the effect, regardless of whether you're judging it or not.
The second paragraph that I picked out puzzles me. Every member in the show helped add to the concept, not simply the color guard. But also, it's simply not all the color guard did. Spinning wise, I think the color guard itself was properly positioned at finals, BEHIND the Blue Devils, who did win that caption. So the guard didn't win in the first place. Plus, the show is so well integrated throughout the entire corps, not simply the guard, that you can't take out the theme. The show is designed around the theme, with it's effects centered on a theme.
This is not to say that if you take out the "fluff", the show would not win. Because to take out the theme, you are also taking out some of the major impact points and the ideas and concepts behind it. Which isn't exactly fair, because...
If the Cavaliers were designing a show non-conceptually, they would place their effects elsewhere, but there would STILL be effects! Does this make any sense? If you take out their concept, of course the show doesn't win, but that's because you're taking out all of the effects. To me, it's almost like saying, if some corps didn't do the shout section in their show, would they still have won? No! They're cutting out the release of an effect! But if they knew going into this designwise that they couldn't use a shout section, they would have planned accordingly.
This just further demonstrates how integrated the Cavaliers shows are.
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Is it going to die because the author said that we're unhappy or is it because we're unhappy?
I suppose the loudest voice gets the most recognition.
Plus, I don't want to look like a major dork and come on here and say, "Hey! I love drum corps! Does anyone else on here love drum corps! Cuz I do."
We all love drum corps in some form or another. That much is obvious. I don't think asking what our current mood is is...going to give any kind of answer...but darned if I stop you.
Or is it are we happy or unhappy with where drum corps is going? Because I think that's more of what the original quote was referring to of being "unhappy".
Count me as both happy and unhappy. I like the direction some corps are going, I feel like the rest are falling behind. This is drum corps! You've gotta fight your way to the top!
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Wait, New Orleans is still there? Based on the media coverage, I thought it had sunk into the ocean or something.
(dry humor here)
I still think it's a crazy world if joking about a city sinking into an ocean somehow constitutes "dry" humour.
It's ironic, I suppose. Or unfortunate. Yes, ironic and unfortunate.
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I thought that it might be an option. I was wrong. I'll bet it would have gotten a lot of votes, though.
Honestly, who cares? Criticize what you see on the field, criticize designers, criticize performers/students/whatever interchangeable term you want to use, criticize staff/instructors/teachers/whatever interchangeable term you want to use, criticize the cost of dues/tuition/whatever interchangeable term you want to us. But why does it matter, you know, at all, how people who march and people who don't march refer to themselves, or how they refer to money? IT'S GREEN STUFF THAT'S GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE!
Obviously, you think that wasn't an intelligent thing for me to ask in this thread, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but I really would like to know.What's in a name? Well, let's see.
The Summer Music games- Marching Music's Major League.
Contras- Tubas
Sopranos- Trumpets
Drum Corps- Marching Band.
Each of these are examples where precise word usage is important. To me, the Contra/Tuba thing was brought about for accuracy. Most corps use Tubas and trumpets now.
For Drum corps, many people will fight and fight before it is ever called marching band. People can get offended if it's called the wrong thing. We all know it can be frustrating to see a picture of a drum corps in a newspaper with a big caption of "Marching Band" under it.
As for the first one, I think this is closest to the case for the argument of changing to the terms faculty and student and tuition. It's the subtext, the connotation behind it. DCI felt that the title Marching Music's Major League better fit their business strategy. I would speculate this would be to further influence and get high school kids interested. Dissapointed with your high school marching band? Or perhaps want to be the very best in the marching arts? Try drum corps. That kind of thing.
The more I think of it, the more I think this is a good idea. I still know that the perception high school band students have that drum corps pedagogy is less than stellar and possibly ANTI-musical is still out there. Perhaps if there was some kind of way to change this myth, and word usage helped, than by all means go ahead.
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It has a lot to do with how Phantom works on their show. The layers thing was mentioned....
Most of these things occured in July...
The entire closer was pretty much re-written drill wise- and there were some major changes music wise.
A few major spots in the opener, (2 0r 3) were completely re-written drillwise, cut or edited for many various reasons.
The ballad added the drumline and the corps adjusted almost every set for the ballad.
The hornline added body movement.
The third movement stayed the same...mostly? Can't remember.
Then guard added character work, got a different set of opener flags, the whole masks were added on, the pants and wings were added on, different colored rifles were used in the 3rd movement...then the whole death shroud...
The whole pre-show was added in with all of the huge flags.
The very end of the show was tweaked into about 4 different versions...
Did I miss anything? Lots of layers. The show wasn't really finished...ever. There were modifications throughout finals. I think this is typical, but even more so with Phantom.
I think Phantom also works at a different pace than other corps, meaning that they know certain things are going to be a wreck for the first few weeks but opt to concentrate on fixing other things knowing that they'll have plenty of time for those things later...
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Speaking of San Antonio, my favorite day is usually the day we get out of practicing in hot weather! AKA Texas and surrounding areas!
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Not my point. Sorry you took it that way.
Perhaps. However GMichael's tone, the point is valid, there was a stop complaining statement and sentiment that kind of killed the whole positive spin that was giving me a good vibe.
I like your idea though, if you think about it, there really is something out there for everyone.
Also, I think that within each of those there exists elements of each parts, but your definition, the more I think about it, is a good general rule and I think also applies well.
I think part of the issue is that people like to cling to the organizations that they have grown so attached. Being an alumni of corps and being a part of the history of DCI makes them feel like they have a responsibility to it perhaps? I can see it much easier for people to try and maintain the way of DCI as they saw it than to search for their school of thought in newer and unfamiliar places.
These people who have been around have strong emotional ties to the organizations that they have grown up with. And with these ties, they feel a sense of belonging, and perhaps responsibility. It's like family. They may complain, but they always love. And like a good family member, they want to steer them in the direction they would like to see them go in.
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I really like the music.
It's a good thing I left it on, because the first part was going on and I thought that was pretty much the idea for the rest of it.
Boy was I wrong, I ended up really liking the second part.
That ending gong comes out of nowhere!
I can definitely hear Cadets doing this, I like this direction.
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I'm surprised at the number of people whe if they had it their way would actually scale down the size of their guard, even given 15 extra members...
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start voting glassmen!!
Either way, they'll both be out within the next two rounds. Statistically speaking.
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Can't we actually test this blindfold theory out? I think if it's valid, it would open up a lot of eyes. Well, even if it's not, then I suppose it would still open up a lot of eyes.
Either way it's an eye opener! Let's test this!
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It's just odd what has become of the discussion forums.
All of your points I think are very valid Lancerlady. However, I think the discussion forums COULD be a lot worse.
Nobody could be discussing anything at all. This happens on some boards.
The fact that people check this board so frequently and that they stay up to date on it and that they argue so frequently AT THE VERY LEAST shows that they care.
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Part of my observations over my time reading the posts are from either:
A.) Longtime drum corps people. Including people who had marched sometime in the Pre-DCI, early DCI, and taught somewhere before most members were born in DCI today.
B.)Fans of DCI that are from any time period.
C.)Alum from the late 80's to 2000's
and
D.)Current marching members of DCI.
My problem with the "D.)" selection is that some of the members that post don't really know that much, but post like they know everything about anything, and their point is valid because their signature reads:
Some corps 200_
"
"
DCI Age out 201_
... IMO marching members shouldn't be necessarily concerned with (INSERT CORPS DIRECTOR, probably affiliated with the Maroon and Gold) is proposing in the world of DCI. To add to that comment, or on anything another corps besides theirs is concerned with.
I completely disagree with members not necessarily concerned with rules proposals, not just by Hopkins but of anyone. I think they should absolutely be concerned, or at least be following along. The changes in rules proposals in particular of recent have been affecting spots. It's just as important to the members as those watching. It's important to know as much as possible, just like in any other "sport".
A lot of rules changes affect them directly. Now with 150 members for next season 2008, that will affect the size of certain sections. I would plan accordingly if I was in those sections. For whatever reason it CHANGES things.
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So I think this board provides an excellent chance for us to open discussion and learn what works for other folks. I know I'm always interested in learning more about technique for rifle and sabre and thought we could start a weekly discussion.
For the first topic:
Wrist strengthening exercise. What do you do to build muscle and flexability for those pesky flourishes and tosses?
I have a flourish exercise that is done with a straight arm during the flourish, and you do a low, mid and high level flourish. All are done from the middle of the bolt for the lefts and neck for the rights. Sabre is the same way except rights are from midblade and lefts are from the hilt.
I have seen flourish warmups done with the ends of the rifle before, but don't know or remember how they are approched.
I'm curious as to other techniques.....discuss and learn! :)
Breakdancing. It does wonders for wrist strength.
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Drum Corps Survivor - 2006 Edition
Each day you'll be voting for the corps you want voted OFF the drum corps island. This is for entertainment purposes only and is based off the 2006 shows.
A new poll will be made each day (though this one may last through tomorrow night) with the corps who was voted off the previous day no longer an option. Voting will continue until one corps remains!
This poll will close at 7 PM Central and a new one will begin, also to be closed at 7 PM Central the following day.
Spirit from JSU was eliminated in Round 5.
So far, we've had a pretty clear trend going on, with the corps with the 2nd most votes going down in the next round. Therefore, I predict Glassmen, then Madison going next round.
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I agree too! SCV was very very good this summer... but it just seems unusual to me that they are getting SUCH a low number of votes compared to other teams (i.e. phantom, or bluecoats). Seems confusing, is all.
I know, I mean come on! We've got two other corps up there that are in classic countdown contention! If Moto was so great, where is it?
I just think that there's less things to bother people in SCV's show than others.
I must not have watched it enough because all I could think about was, "Ok, big deal..."
I think that some people are trying to vote off the corps they fear might beat their own favorite! This IS much like the real survivor.
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What do you guys think of the little blue guy with a pitch fork in G's avatar?
I'm sorry, I can't talk about it. It would be considered hijacking and some serious taboo. Or is that last sentence about me talking about not being able to talk about it actually in and of itself hijacking? What was the topic again?
Ah, yeah, the death of DCP.
I think DCP talks about the same stuff a lot, but no biggie. I know the title of the topic is kind of a play off of another topic, but I don't think it's going to die any time soon. I like DCP. I think it has it's merit. I think people would do better with some real drum corps action, like the drum corps season where there is plenty of substance to argue about instead of this long talk of theoreticals and dwelling on past shows to get us through. I think the conversation would flow better if more corps freely allowed their members to speak their minds. So, no, I don't think DCP is going to die any sooner or more than when drum corps died in 1972. Which is, clearly, not at all.
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What?? How can you not like the greatest opener of all time????
:P
If it's followed by the worst 3 movements the earth has ever seen! :P
Oh, sorry, I thought it was a hypothetical question!
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Wait a sec...in a show about Phantom Regiment 1989, I would be inclined to post, "Thank God we had this show without amps." I'm certain I've done this in threads about other shows. To me, one of the things that made that show great (which is the topic of the thread) was that it was performed acoustically and wasn't marred with cheesy narration or singing. Yet this is considered "hijacking"...
I'm confused...
Actually, I think that was one thing that people were saying was not hijacking, if I read it right.
I would consider it to be hijacking if it was like, "Thank God we had this show without amps. Amps suck and shouldn't be in Drum corps. Discuss." If it sounds like a new thread starter, and isn't a joke, then it might be hijacking.
I kinda preferred when we had that 150 page or so rant about amps so you pretty much always had that topic to debate about amps so you didn't have to debate about it anywhere else.
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There was a guard from Independent Open that ‘Will’ didn’t mention that I really enjoyed. They were the Canadian guard, Ventures. Their show for me was simply a breath of fresh air.
Their show is entitled Missed Encounters. Their music is from a Canadian Jazz artist known as Dr Draw.
Their show opens with dancers on the benches doing ripple work. The leave the benches and continue dancing on the floor. Sabers come out and grab your attention with a ripple 6. Sabers and dancers steal the first minute fifteen of the show. It’s beautiful.
As the sabers and dancers transition off there is a dancing duet and a few measures later joined by a flag line who take center stage. As the duet transition to the sides more flags come out and dominate the center of the floor. The rifles come out, jump on top of the benches, throw a cold 6, jump down and catch. The flags have mystifying flag work in the center of the floor. They break in to two sections in the center and across the back. The rifles turn the benches, throw a 5, and sit on the benches to catch. You almost miss it because the flags are so beautiful. Rifles then transition to the front toss a 5 again and squat.
The flags finish their feature and the rifles are right back at it. They finally get center stage after being a back drop to the flags for just about a minute. The rifles get some really cute circle drill as the flags move around the perimeter and have an awesome flag exchange while sitting on the benches. In addition to this section there is a rifle soloist on side 1. He tosses a 6 and does a double spin underneath. Quite amazing!
The next transition brings sabers back on to the floor. The rifles get in another 6 and the flags help to nicely transition the sabers to move the benches on side 2. The flags then help the rifles to the 50. The sabers become dancers and the rifles throw a 4 exchange with the dancers. Rifles and sabers get their minute while the flags are slowly transition away from the flag they had and come out with a new flag.
The change in color is mesmerizing. It grabs your attention. You have to watch the bench transitions closely to notice that the weapons are slowly adding in as flags. Next thing you notice there is a sea of pink. The ending is a complete flag feature that is TO DIE FOR!!!
If you haven’t had a chance to see this guard this winter, you need to! You definitely won’t be disappointed.
Ventures, I wish you the best of luck for this entire season! GET IT!!!
Wow, sounds like you more than really enjoyed it! Sounds like you took notes and play by play! I just remember a really long clean flag feature at the end.
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Fantasia this year is using black umbrellas. I know, umbrellas, see it many times. But, fantasia uses the umbrellas very good, not in the typical, predictable fashion.
I have only seen them once, thus far. I haven't seen them in their unis yet. They were wearing the blacks.
Onyx uses black umbrellas as well. They spin them for a good ending portion, also they use canes.
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Does anyone think it's odd that over 75% of open guards have made block score the first week in February? Are the shows too easy or are judges being to nice? Love to hear your thoughts.
Correction...post block score. Only 3 guards so far have made a block score.
And to answer your question, I think it's neither. I think the independent open guards are just better across the board this year.
Technique Topic #2
in CGP General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Stick Stack
I find that an understanding of core/distal connectivity works and is needed almost more than core strength. If your hands are connected and you have an understanding of the relationship between them and the center of your body, you know how the parts work with the whole and in turn can balance and move the body as one. Only so much strength is required, but if everything is in alignment, your core need only stay engaged to achieve balance.
A good modern training will help with core/distal connectivity in balance. A few good exercises...
The X-series. (On the ground, in an x, rolling to a fetal position on the side, or back or up, many variations) I've experienced these kinds of exercises in many different guards. Often though, the connection that you can gain from it is sometimes lost in translation. The initiation from the ocre is important, but it is also important to switch with the inititation between the core to the arms or to the legs, because in dance and in color guard the distal most points of the body will begin with the core simply stabilizing. Also, it is important to use the sense of breath to connect the movement, as well as yielding to the ground and using it as a stabilizer and getting a connection in that manner. There is also a connection that is necessary with the mind involved in the exercises, focusing it on clear smooth movement and control which is necessary for balance.
As for maintaining alignment and a neutral position which is extremely important to have for balance, there are a few good exercises I can think of off the top of my head.
Spending a good 2-3 minutes everyday finding a clear, neutral first position parallel and focusing with length throughout the body and watching for problematic alignment is essential. Then, taking that proper alignment, and doing across the floors, with weight shifts is important as well. You might find that many people can stand with good alignment, but as soon as the body moves many things are thrown off when adding simple arms and weight shifts, such as the hips, ribs, shoulders and neck. (Usually due to tension)
If your members understand these key issues of alignment and core/distal connectivity, then balancing should be nothing more than a lift and there it is!