MidwestGiant
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Posts posted by MidwestGiant
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Calling shananingans on this one....
But if the individual corps takes such a financial hit that it hurts or kills them it is not good for the corps or the activity either. And I'm talking NE and non-NE corps here.
Edit: And don't see the sense in saying corps X makes the trip so other corps can make the trip. Just because my neighbor can drive a BMW doesn't mean I can afford one. Every persons and corps financial situation is unique.
Ok, I'm through beating a dead horse. Most of us aren't decision makers for DCA corps anyway.
No one wants a single trip to fold a corps, obviously...
All I'm saying is that it is important (if we see the all-age activity as a national one) for Eastern corps to invest in that concept and travel every once in a while. This should be done in a well supported, well thought out manner every few years. Doing this would increase the brand of DCA and make the overall activity better.
It should certainly be done in a fiscally responsible manner, but roadblocks and current situations shouldn't limit DCA from being a national organization. If being a national organization isn't really a priority, then that is fine, just stop saying that it is.
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This is a worthy discussion, to keep it rolling along, I offer the following question . . . .
COULD THIS HAPPEN?
A current, well-traveled corps decides it is extremely important to the overall health of DCA for an established eastern finalist corps to appear outside their usual region. So important, such corps determines IT will not make 2 trips to the NE next season, just one, to Rochester. Some of the money they would normally spend to perform early in the NE will instead be dedicated to bringing an eastern finalist corps into their remote location.
Good move, or not?
Yes
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For championships, sure. For other shows, that is debatable. Is there some indispensable service being performed "for the good of the activity" when MBI or CV appears at a regular season show in the Northeast? Not that I am aware of. They make those appearances because they are highly competitive DCA corps, seeking a level of competition that they are not exposed to in their own home region... and they have enough people willing to take on the additional commitment of one more long weekend trip, with the time off work and the added fundraising that entails. Northeastern corps have competition at all levels in their own region, and thus are not compelled to leave the area just to find other corps in their peer group.
Rather than compel even more corps to travel out of region, I would rather see corps travel less. I would rather see Midwest corps like Kilties strengthen so that MBI has the option of staying home and still facing competitive challenges. I would rather see South corps like Carolina Gold, Alliance, etc., strengthen so that CV has the option of staying home and still facing competitive challenges. I would rather see growth to the point where not a single DCA corps is geographically isolated from competitive peers.
Now, my understanding is that DCA has a free market model for booking corps into shows. If I have this correct, there is nothing stopping a Midwest or South show host from simply offering an Northeastern corps however much money it will take to entice them to travel out of region. Since that is not already happening, that tells me that people better informed than me have decided it is not worth the expense to bring Northeastern corps to Midwest or South shows. For that to change, those of you advocating for it need to change the math with some combination of increased marketing and/or financial support, such that it becomes feasible for a non-NE show host to attract a NE corps.
Yes, there is an indispensable service being performed. It strengthens the activity when more corps are better and connected to each other. It is hard to quantify, but the value is there and not just for the traveling group. It is good for the whole activity when All-age groups excel. Certainly, it would be best to have multiple strong regions. DCA corps traveling doesn't take away from the potential of strong regions.
That is the point. Even with the generous help from show sponsors, corps like MBI don't break even on these trips out east. Not even a 5th of the cost is covered. It is an investment that is being borne by non-eastern corps alone.
It is fine that the Eastern corps don't see the value in DCA becoming a national organization and don't want to lose their geographical advantage. It is a valid argument. I just feel that it is a bit shortsighted and in the long run, will hurt the potential of the activity.
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I agree with a good chunk of this.....but....here's the thing. Do we know say Bucs or Cabs going out there will draw that much interest? There are still way too many people going to shows in the midwest that blow off the DCA corps. Bringing Bucs or Cabs in isn't going to change a lot of their minds.
I don't disagree that in the short term there would need to be some investment and small gains, but having real competition and more quality would encourage attendance and awareness of the DCA product.
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Nope. Not yet, anyway. Maybe your post will generate some of that. Personally, I don't see how one of the top couple DCA corps making a single trip someplace far away will have any impact on DCA, esp given the huge costs (read Amy's post about bus costs alone), but maybe someone can come up with a rationale.
DCA is still primarily a Northeast circuit, when you look at the season on fromthepressbox. There are only four DCA shows outside of the Northeast where there are at least 4 DCA corps competing...Racine, two in MN and one in GA, all of them in early/mid August. On top of that, at each of the shows, there are only two Open class corps competing, if a 15-point spread can be called 'competing'. Even in June there are DCA shows in the Northeast with 5 Open class corps.
One reason the dropping of Empire is so scary to me is that DCA needs to remain strong and viable in the Northeast for there to even be a DCA. Hopefully Bush and the Sunrisers continue their Open class resurgence, Fusion can continue to be competitive, and that C2 thrives. IMO if the Northeast portion of DCA drops below "critical mass", the circuit would have a tough time surviving. "Weekend-only" and "Nationwide exposure" only work when there is a strong core in at lest one area to provide a solid structure for the organization.
Is it for the "good of the activity" that non Eastern corps travel to finals and other East shows every year? I would say that it is. The expansion of the all age brand throughout the nation has lead to increased exposure and quality of all DCA corps. Do you feel that the Bucs would be as good as they are if MBI wasn't around? Would class A be better without the Govies? Renegades, CV, Alliance,etc. they have all brought something great to DCA. Losing non-eastern corps from finals would hurt the activity.
I would say that it would have the same result eventually if eastern corps perform in different parts of the country. That competition and exposure of the true quality of the all-age activity would lead to increased awareness, financial support, recruiting, audience, and branding for DCA. It may encourage more to take an interest in the weekend model for drum corps, one that I feel may be the future for our activity, and therefore increase the quality and size of our participants.
Sure, when you think on the small scale of what is best for this year, "our corps," or our region, it makes a ton of sense to keep with the status quo. It works well for the Eastern Corps, but does it work well for the future of the all age activity? I think that it would be better to take the longer view. The one that is beyond the one bus bill, or the 200 extra people in the stands. The view that we all get better when we support each other. The view that even though it is a pain, traveling brings the non-eastern corps together. It is a model that can work if there is a priority to growing the activity and not just looking out for ourselves.
Obviously, it takes planning and can't be done every year initially, but shouldn't we be spreading our brand of drum corps in as many parts of the country as possible? We have something great to offer.
I think that if it is an established show with a decent facility and audience at first it might work. Maybe a new show eventually, but not for a while.
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Does MBI come out ahead or break even when they travel East before Labor Day?
Absolutely not, but it has been in the best interest of MBI and the All-age activity to have the corps out twice a year. It is time that the Eastern corps take their responsibility in marketing and growing the all age activity nationwide seriously. No one is saying that the Eastern groups should do it every year, or that they never have, but maybe every 5? It obviously isn't easy to do, but it is doable. The growth of the all age activity has largely been outside of the NE over the past decade. It is important for the NE corps to recognize that growth should be supported for the better of the whole activity. Otherwise, DCA should just continue to be a nice regional circuit and corps like CV and MBI should do something else.
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I would have to say yes.
I think that having it done earlier frees up the final weekend of the summer for people with families, makes the school/college transition easier, and connects the drum corps audience better to DCI. I think that having it three weeks later isn't as strong of connection to the main audience for our activity. They've moved on to Marching Band. Certainly, we could figure out how to prepare our groups to and earlier end of the season, and not lose shows.
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MBI won in 2011 not because we had to cancel our show the week before, but because they were better. This coming from the guy who proudly shook as many of their hands as possible to offer my congratulations, the only thing we were not happy with was they couldn't perform their encore.
If they went on before us, it would have made no difference.
I have never said that the proper champions were not crowned ANY year. The fact is that the East Coast Corps got a seeding score on a weekend that everyone else in the activity cannot. The other fact is that it is advantageous to be on in prelims as late as possible. That is undeniable. Therefore it is unfair and the rule needs to be revisited.
nothing more...
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maybe so,............but I can't think of a better idea,............got any?
Three ideas:
1. Draw by score band(someone else was talking about it)
2. Designate a weekend where everyone( or nearly everyone) is out as the seeding weekend.
3. I'm fine with seeding based on last year's finals. It is the only benefit for doing well last year, and was the last show that the corps were judges in the same place at the same time. That is as fair as it could be in my opinion.
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hasn't seemed to hurt MBI or Govies in the past.
just sayin
How do you figure?
No sour grapes here, but the one time MBI went on after the Bucs, due to a hurricane no less, was the only time that they won.
Going on later changes the mindset of the performing group and the perception of the ensemble.
It may be the difference between playing with the sun in your face. It does matter and should be decided on a weekend that everyone has a chance to compete. Another system would be better.
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It is based on highest score in August.
Which is why it is inherently flawed. It is not possible for non-eastern corps to have a travel weekend the weekend before the biggest travel weekend of the year. They would get home on Monday and then have to leave for out east on Wednesday. So essentially that gives the corps who have shows a weekend before finals, and a smaller travel budget, a really large advantage in getting the highest score. While going on last in prelims isn't a guarantee of a finals victory, certainly it is an advantage. That is undeniable. There should be a better system than one that is based on scores from shows thousands of miles away on different weekends.
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With the lack of updates on here, I have been using Facebook to keep up with corps.
Today I just saw this from MBI's page:
"We have scared away the rain so we can finish perfecting the new closer. A great day for drum corps!"
Seems a little late to be doing something like this? I know DCI corps do it sometimes but they have more rehearsal time. Thoughts?
No worries, Not a complete rewrite. Just ramping up the end and the story line. It is much better already. MBI 2012 is a great drum corps and will be a force to be contend with by DCA. In many ways this corps is much better than last year's. Should be fun!
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I think that it could start with the drumline and eventually expand.
I teach the Minnesota Vikings Skol Drumline and we are professional rudimental drummers. We get paid and are sponsored by Best Buy. I believe that currently there are at least 20 NFL teams that have drumlines. There are also numerous NBA drumlines as well. We are very popular and well received by the Vikings fans.
The group is made up mostly of MBI and other corps alumni.
I could see in the next 5 years competitions developing between these groups as an offshoot of NFL branding.
There is a lot of time to fill on the NFL network
It might be the way to get the marching activity closer to the mainstream, but our shows as we currently write them aren't ever going to have that kind of popularity. They just are simply too artistic at times. You don't see orchestras or ballets on non-public TV either. We would have to sell our souls a bit. It would need to be something more geared to the masses and embrace all of the technology available. Even amplification and electronics
Joel
MBI
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Just wondering which DCA groups have winter guards and drumlines.
How much of an advantage might this be to the summer corps?
MBI is in our 5th year of competition with the Winter Drumline.
We have placed as high as 5th in the Percussion Independent Open Class at WGI.
It largely a separate group from the Drum Corps other than we share equipment and much of the staff. The DL has its own schedule that works around the summer group.
The age range for the Winter group is 16-22.
We have about 10-12 of the winter group kids that also do the summer corps. The reason that isn't higher is that some of the other WDL kids march juniors, have schedule issues with the summer, or don't make the Drum Corps.
We started the WDL 5 years ago to have a next level winter ensemble from Minnesota and train teachers for our local circuit. There weren't too many good local Independent groups at the time.
The benefits for us have been:
Better training of percussion overall in the state. The kids come to us better than ever.
Increased local and national exposure for the corps.
A solid recruiting vehicle to present at winter shows.
More of a youth focused activity to build bridges with local schools and performance/money opportunities.
We have turned over our talent much faster for the summer because the kids in the winter drum more. We haven't had have huge lulls in our talent pool for the summer DL.
The guard is in their second year of competing nationally. They have had guards in the past that were senior guards, but now it is a Independent Open ensemble in the same vein as the WDL. The results for the guard and corps have been very positive as well.
It isn't easy though. It is a challenge for the organization to support 4 performing ensembles (including the mini corps). Financially and schedule wise there are always glitches. But overall it has been a great thing for the organization IMO.
Joel
MBI Program Coordinator
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Congrats to the MBI winter guard who was a finalist in WGI Independent Open competition this past week at Dayton! This is the ensemble's first year in competition and they spent much of the year in the Independent A class until they got promoted. A great first year!
Lets hope some of that good performance comes the drumline's way this weekend as they compete in Percussion Independent Open as well.
It is good to see the name of all age drum and bugle corps doing quality work in other arenas.
Congratulations!
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sure there are examples of individuals on reading's staff who are top-tier DCI quality instructors/designers. my point is that overall, from top to bottom, their staff is clearly not better than EVERY SINGLE staff in DCI, which is the claim that was made by the original poster ("second to none in dci" was the terminology used).
for the record, the buccaneers' staff is BY FAR the best in DCA, in my opinion. no one else is even close.
I'm not sure I agree. Don't get me wrong I have a huge respect for the Bucs. Their staff does amazing things and have had an incredible run. They were the best corps last weekend and deserved to win for sure. But to say that they have BY FAR the best staff doesn't necessarily take into account outside factors and inherent advantages of schedule, tradition, organization, familiarity with judges, and proximity to competition. Now I'm not saying that they are not a great staff, clearly they are. But there are other great staffs, one of which I am on at MBI. When you really think about it maybe the best staff is at Alliance to be able to teach their corps to jump into finals for the first time, or the Govies to have great success with a small town local corps.
Again, the Bucs staff is amazing. They have set a new bar for DCA. I have never seen a better DCA corps than I saw from them this year, but in my opinion to say that no one is close to their staff is short sighted.
Joel
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Minnesota Brass, Inc. is proud to announce their 2009 program entitled, "Nocturne - Songs for the Night." This dark and rich program will explore various moods of the night. Earle Hagen's "Harlem Nocturne" provides the thematic backdrop for the production. Additional selections will include an edgy and mysterious take on Stan Kenton’s “Commencement" as well as his "Aspect." A lush rendition of “My Immortal” from Evanescence will serve as the ballad while the intense energy of Dizzy Gillespie's, "A Night in Tunisia" is sure to bring drum corps fans to their feet. The music and expressive visual program will transport our audiences through the scariness, the sadness and the playfulness of the night.
"I'm thrilled at the direction this show is taking," said Joel Matuzak, MBI Program Coordinator. "This music and concept allows us to continue to innovate in the all-age drum corps activity while presenting a vehicle that will be accesible to audiences around the country. After our remarkable 2008 season, we can't wait for 2009 to begin." In 2008, Minnesota Brass achieved their highest placement ever, securing second place at the Drum Corps Associates Championship.
The creative staff from 2008 returns with Joel Matuzak and Matt Ferry as Percussion Arrangers, Matt Kettlehut and Andy Classen as Brass Arrangers, and Gary Swanson as Colorguard Designer. Joel Matuzak will again serve Program Coordiantor. Minnesota Brass is also pleased to announce Ben Harloff and Andrew Angle as additions to our creative team.
Minnesota Brass begins its 63rd season at 1:30 on Saturday, January 3rd at Highland Park Senior High School in Saint Paul. All potential members are encouraged to attend! Register and get more information at www.mnbrass.org/rsvp.php. Regular rehearsals start on Wednesday Nights in January.
Check out mnbrassinc.org for more details
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My name is Joel Matuzak and I'm the program coordinator, percussion arranger, and for this weekend, drum major of the Minnesota Brass.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those individuals who personally came up to me and the rest of our corps to congratulate us Sunday night. Through my 23 years involved with DCA and MBI I have many DCA championship memories, but none are as sweet as this. I have been involved with some DCA meetings and have made many friends from other corps, but the amount of positive response that we received after achieving this milestone for our organization and for DCA was truly overwhelming. I have no words to describe my humbled gratitude for all of the well wishes.
I personally want to thank:
Dave Bruni and the Empire Statesmen. I have always known about how much that your fine organization has supported MBI over the years, but I was amazed at your response after finals. What a class act!
Rich Hammond and the Bucs. You are a great champion and deserve all that you have gotten (except maybe one or two drum titles ;) Seriously though, I appreciate all that you have done. Thanks for checking the lot Rich.
Al Murry and Dynasty. No you no us.
the DCA adjudicators.
I have done a fair amount of judging and I know that sometimes when you are seeing a group for only once or twice it is hard to put them up above groups who you have seen many times and are comfortable with. I thank you for your expertise.
That all being said, we didn't win. The Reading Buccaneers did. They are a great corps who has changed our activity for the better. We are proud of being the highest placing non-eastern corps in DCA history, but we will be even more proud if and when we are the the first non-eastern corps to win. See you next year!
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For the first time (that I am aware of), a DCA drumline will be performing at the WGI Indoor Percussion Championships in Dayton, Ohio next weekend. Minnesota Brass will be competing in the Independent Open Class prelims on Friday and hopefully, finals on Saturday. The membership of the winter group consists of members and alumni of MBI, SCV, Madison, Bluecoats, Cavies, Colts, Southwind, and Blue Stars. We are extremely proud of this show and Drumline. If you are in the area come check us out. I think that we will represent DCA drumlines well.
Joel Matuzak
MBI
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It was unbelievably unnerving being one of the people who had to account for the members who were not at rehearsal when the bridge collapsed. We couldn't get through to anyone. I can't express the relief that I felt when we finally accounted for all of the members. We were so lucky and blessed that we didn't lose someone. Probably a third of our members cross that bridge to get to rehearsal. I know that when we sang our corps song For All We Know last night when we broke rehearsal the words rang in all of our hearts. Love my drum corps family! I'm so thankful that everyone was safe.
Joel Matuzak
MBI Program Coordinator
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I thoroughly agree with these posts. I live in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, and have been wanting to join an all age corps for a while. On this website, I met the Director of Chops. I will be playing with their frontline percussion for the remainder of this season. I have met many of the Minnesota Brass directors and staff as well and will be attending some of their practices to see what the different styles are. (I would be remiss to mention we also have the Govenaires!)
When you get off of tour you should come and check out some of our rehearsals before then end of this season. I think that if you march MBI you will find the right balance point between playing in a great percussion program and having a life. We have been among the best DCA drumlines in the past ten years and this year will be no exception, plus we have a lot of fun too.
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There is a new recording of the opener for Minnesota Brass on our website. It is from from our 3-15 rehearsal. We're really proud of this chart and the level of the 2006 corps. It is going to Rock! Check it out and let us know what you think at www.mnbrassinc.org
Joel Matuzak
MBI Percussion/Program coordinator
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Yeah,
Brigs 2003. They rocked!
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Another one tonight!
We should be close to setting the drumline. Plan on marching tonight!
I'm really excited to get more work in on the street beat too.
See you then!
Joel
DCA in TN
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
Posted
http://www.southernknightscorps.org/
Out of Birmingham.