MariaCrown2010
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Posts posted by MariaCrown2010
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I was scared when this moment was coming up becuase I was positive that someone was going to yell " GO [insert name here]!!!"
But it was silent, and it was a very great moment that night. I can't wait to watch the finals DVD becuase I garauntee you will see people in the audience trying to hold their breath to not ruin the moment ;)
I made sure not to make any noise during that part so that I wouldn't ruin the finals DVD, and I'm glad just like what was stated in the OP, that other people chose to keep silent.
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k. Here it goes.
I was there at Finals last night.
1. Watching Corps march out to "Boom Boom Pow" was not quite appropriate.
2. Seeing two corps without their horns because they had to squeeze in times for their traditions. That's horrible. Those traditions shouldn't have to be squeezed in. Yes the encore will start later if the horns are all brought out, BUT the people who want to stay for the encore will not care about the time of night. It's a moment in history, nothing in the world is more important than that.
3. What was up with no playing of America the Beautiful??? So your telling me that there isn't time to honor the country, OR let these hard working kids play together for ONE last time?
4. So there isn't time for them to go and congratulate other members on their success? Can age's not have just a couple of more minutes to savor the moment; the ending of their Drum corp career?
I understand DCI had their reasons for this. But this isn't just any sport.
This is a sport with thousands of people's who's hearts are going out to thier friends, family, and the random strangers, to enjoy the experience of a lifetime.
It's unlike any other sport, please DCI don't take that away
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Wow thanks alot everyone for your help. I didn't think about all the things that could factor a different score. I appreciate the help, and I also think the the Cadets have a show that is extremely hard. I hope that the judges will notice their show and see how hard it is soon becuase I think they really diserve praise for it. I saw them in Atlanta and the whole time I was like "Yes this is the classic Cadets that I love!". Thank you everyone, and I can't wait to see everyone on Finals night
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bitter much?
acually no I'm not bitter. Like at all. The internet makes me so mad sometimes because emotions can't be portrayed like you want them to. I was saying that I'm fine with Crowns score, and I even congradulated Cadets and Bd. I was just confused, because (not having alot of DCI watching experience myself) I have never seen a score go down from a day to day thing. If that makes sense... Usually I just see scores and I see that a corp went up a point or something, but I have never seen scores go down before. I am not bitter at all, so If you hapeen to know how to answer my question, I would really appreciate an honest answer. Here maybe more smiley faces will help.
I am not bitter!!!
I am happy!!! (can someone seriously answer my question please? I am curious)
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Well I was excited for a day... HAHA just kidding. I'm sure everyone did great tonight, and congrats HN on the win. Wow Bd got a 96, good for them. One quick question, I see that crown went down... right? I think they were 95 yesterday. What causes a score to go down over a night? Is it just literly having an off performance? I know it sounds like a dumb question, but every show seems to have an increase in scores for every corp, and it just have never looked close enough to see a corp go down after a day. I'm guessing it was just an off performance compared to yesterday, or a different panel of judges had a different oppinon.
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Here are 4 shows that I think would really help to get a new fans attention.
1. Cadets 2000
2. Crown 2007
3. Cavaliers 2004
4. Phantom Regiment 2008
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I wasn't referring to Crown when I said "Easy drill...sound familiar", I meant that this year, it has been the common mantra of BD critics to claim "easy drill, no demand" to attempt to rationalize their domination all season. I spent a few days in Atlanta at their practice site viewing their practice, and it should be video taped as the model of building perfection on the field. The care that they take with "each beat" is unbelievable and their approach is so classy and inclusive it would inspire any leadership course. After you get to see what it takes to integrate movement with the chairs (both in them, on them and moving them) it's like having other characters on the field. Additionally, the demand critics need to try and stand on a chair and toss a rifle or sword and catch it (no room to adjust, like on the ground) it is what it is, and it's normally perfect! The complexity and demand of this show is off the charts, but just like last year, the BD gang just chuckles at the criticism....because they (and the judges) know the truth!
"Accused of easy drill....sound familiar? Now that Crown does it, it seems to be OK!"
That's the part that I was talking about. It looked like you were saying that Crown was being accussed of easy drill. My bad for reading it and iterpreting it wrong.
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St. Michael's Cathedral by Ottorino Respighi, selections from Il Sogno by Elvis Costello, and Slalom by Carter Pann, plus some original material, which comprise the bulk of their show (around 7:36 or two thirds of an 11:30 show). Like I said, most of the musical material in this show has never been played by a drum corps before.
The Promise of Living from The Tender Land by Aaron Copland
Church Windows by Ottorino Respighi
Hybrid by Lee Beddis
Slalom by Carter Pann
Puck from Il Sogno by Elvis Costello
Sensemayá by Silvestre Revueltas
Somewhere from West Side Story by Leonard Bernstein
Over the Rainbow from The Wizard of Oz by Harold Arlen and E.Y. Harburg
those are their selections for this year. do you know which ones have never been played before? I'm just wondering. Has someone played Puck before? that piece is amazing
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It's already happened! The day after finals last year, it was noted (within the BD org) that the innovations in the 08 show (critically viewed by some) would in fact find their way into future shows. No one knew how quickly! Crown has adopted several of those techniques this year and no critics. It just takes time to be accepted. Another corps is using the poles, although shorter, same effect. Now, this is not to say that BD is the first to use any of this stuff, but last year they were consistently bashed on DCP for their breaking formation and running at full tilt to new sets. Accused of easy drill....sound familiar? Now that Crown does it, it seems to be OK!
This is definitely not a criticism of Crown, they have one of my favorite shows this year, just a reminder that innovation is in the eye of the beholder.
Acually, I am a fan of Crown too, but I have heard more about their drill being hard for them than their drill being easy. Infact many people are saying that their drill is TOO hard for them. The breaking formation thing is a good point, I'm surprised no one has said anything about that, but I haven't heard much talk of Crown's drill being easy.
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Woohoo! Go crown! Can't wait to see them at Finals.
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Great job to all 3! What's cool is that CC, Cavies, and HNC are my top 3 fav. shows this year. I can't wait to see them at finals, and honestly I do not mind if either of them win.
All three however, have to play catch up to BD. They have a couple of points to get , but it's possible. Keep it up guys and congrats!
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I remember being at the dome and being like "man that girl has an eye patch. It must be hard to guide to the left... in fact she cant at all probably. What a beast!".
Now that I know the story, it makes what she did more honorable. IMO if she knew the drill really well, and she thought she could do it without impacting the drill sets, than I give her kudos for getting out there and marching.
:)
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Absolutely no where did I say that I had the same bug Crown did. By saying going around, there are a lot of people here sick, including my kids entire summer camp class. If you took it the wrong way, my apologies.
Listen, I don't know what the problem is, however my comments in the OP were not a knock on Crown. They have my favorite show of the year, hands down. But when I watched the show on Fan Network, the impression I got was that there were mental errors and some stamina issues that they hadn't had earlier in the season. If the kids are still tired and haven't completely recovered yet, then I think its very plauseable to make the assumption they still aren't 100 percent.
What is so wrong with that?
I agree, and I also think that Crown just like all the corps, were dealing with the heat that week. Being healthy and working in the heat, has its toll, but being sick, and working in the heat was probably very hard. I think Crown is getting better, and I hope they will recover and put on the best Crown show ever.
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Oh yeah, Cadets ending is awesome. And there whole show is awesome! I love it. But I want a Z-pull that moves out (Zingali), then an S-Pull that pulls back in (Sylvester), and finally a double pull (Z and S) ripped across the field at 240 BPM while the horns are blazin' away.
But maybe...maybe I ask for too much.
INT did that two years ago, it was ok. I mean they were moving fast and playing loud and everything, but it wasn't that demanding
haha ;)
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I posted this on another forum, but I think this forum is more appropriate for this post. So here ya go!
(and no this is not a single minute that I loved, its just moments that I will never forget)
First thing, is hearing the base drum tapping in the corp. Just seeing them all serious, and focused reminds me as to why I love Marching activities.
Second thing, when I was at Finals (and yes everyone has said this) and I saw Phantom's drum major get killed, I couldn't believe my eyes, and most of all, I couldn't believe that that acually JUST happened! That was a great moment.
Third thing, I am a huge Crown fan, and I remember seeing their 08 show at Finals. Now you think the HUGE chords would get me the most, but something so subtle got me, and it got me good. I remember their ballad ending, and seeing the corp on one knee, facing back field, and hearing the trumpets sustaining a high note, yet in tune, and hearing an overall balanced chord. It was so pretty and once again, I couldn't believe that it was acually being done.
Fourth thing, (once again) at 08 Finals. Knowing that there were two spots left, and it was either BD or Phantom. Hearing the silence before the "and in second place with a score of...", then hearing the second place corp, and litterly feeling the entire stadium ROAR and SHAKE. Then thru all of this, looking to see how Phantom is reacting, and seeing everyone still except for the barley visible shaking of corp members trying to not move while crying. I was blessed to whitness that moment live.
Fifth thing, the first time I watched the SCV's show this year, and the first time I heard/watched them hit the company front at the end of their show. Woah that moment in Finals this year will be unforgettable.
Last one, (for now) This year's Ballad by Blue stars, it was random, and I was barley paying attention while watching the show online, and hearing it and getting chills thru the computer screen hearing how beautifully arranged that piece is. I was very impressed by Blue Stars.
Any moments that you feel like adding to Finals 08, I would like to hear. Because luckly I was there, and I want to remember such a great night :)
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Hmm. A couple of things excite me/ memorable moments (maybe alittle off topic)
First thing, is hearing the base drum tapping in the corp. Just seeing them all serious, and focused reminds me as to why I love Marching activities.
Second thing, when I was at Finals (and yes everyone has said this) and I saw Phantom's drum major get killed, I couldn't believe my eyes, and most of all, I couldn't believe that that acually JUST happened! That was a great moment.
Third thing, I am a huge Crown fan, and I remember seeing their 08 show at Finals. Now you think the HUGE chords would get me the most, but something so subtle got me, and it got me good. I remember their ballad ending, and seeing the corp on one knee, facing back field, and hearing the trumpets sustaining a high note, yet in tune, and hearing an overall balanced chord. It was so pretty and once again, I couldn't believe that it was acually being done.
Fourth thing, (once again) at 08 Finals. Knowing that there were two spots left, and it was either BD or Phantom. Hearing the silence before the "and in second place with a score of...", then hearing the second place corp, and litterly feeling the entire stadium ROAR and SHAKE. Then thru all of this, looking to see how Phantom is reacting, and seeing everyone still except for the barley visible shaking of corp members trying to not move while crying. I was blessed to whitness that moment live.
Fifth thing, the first time I watched the SCV's show this year, and the first time I heard/watched them hit the company front at the end of their show. Woah that moment in Finals this year will be unforgettable.
Last one, (for now) This year's Ballad by Blue stars, it was random, and I was barley paying attention while watching the show online, and hearing it and getting chills thru the computer screen hearing how beautifully arranged that piece is. I was very impressed by Blue Stars.
Any moments that you feel like adding to Finals 08, I would like to hear. Because luckly I was there, and I want to remember such a great night :)
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So... how do you feel about SCV this year? A simple,elegant show that screams drum corps.
I have to say ( never being a huge fan of SCV, yet never hating them) that SCV's show is the most beautiful show that I have ever seen. It's so elegant, and I love the flow of it. I have never seen a show like it and I hope they have a great year.
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My favorite commentary was BK, and Boston Crusaders. I didn't hear others before those shows, but I did watch all the way until the scores were announced. Thanks to FanNetwork, many of the shows are more interesting due to the explanations, and the shout outs, as to what to watch for. Many interesting things going on this year, great job everyone
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Wait... I didnt say that. So please take that quote off because I for sure did not say that lol. Im not friends with any brass captiobn heads or anything
CORRECTION
Earlier in the Forum, I replied to someone who replied to me. I incorrectly replied to their quote, therefore, it looks like I wrote it. However I didn't. It was my fault for not replying to the quote the right way. I messed up somehow. Long story short, the brass caption head remark was not written by me, I just replied to the person who said that.
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Dear Close Friends with Many of the Top 12 Brass Caption Heads (is this like Friends of DCI or something?),
The brass caption isn't always won by those who are playing the cleanest... there is a lot more to it than that.
There are many cases in which even fundamentally different approaches are equally rewarded. Illustrating this point using a familiar example, is the tie in the brass caption between Blue Devils and Star in 1993. I don't think it could be possible to demonstrate two more radically different approaches and emphasis that arrive at the same quality of result.
There were loads of other lines out there that were much, much cleaner than Blue Devils' that year, but really none were even close in terms of the level of individual musicianship of that line. Likewise, there were many lines out there that had much better individual players out there than Star, but their ensemble playing was otherworldly (... especially considering they were on a set 2 valve horns that had been through 9 seasons... crazy).
Both books had an insane amount of difficulty, but were difficult in very different ways.
Was it only because of difficulty? No. What is because they were clean? Cadets and Phantom played cleaner than Blue Devils that year.
It is simply about overall achievement in the caption.
Anyway, it takes a lot more than just incredible brass lines to win (if that's all it took, instead of in 5th, Blue Devils would have won in 1991 with a score of 107.3).
Back to the whole point of this thread... a perception of the Blue Devils are not challenging their members.
Blue Devils went through a lot of changes between 1988 and 1994... a period in which it could be argued that there was an emphasis on some captions over others... to where they finally arrived at a formula that is extremely balanced across ALL captions. They seem to have really perfected this, becoming, indisputably. the most consistent organization in the activity.
It just seems a rather absurd to argue that an organization that has demonstrated, year on year, such a high level of achievement across ALL captions, cannot be challenging their members. It could even be argued that in an organization has been in the Top 3 27 times in the last 33 years, the pressure placed on performers to maintain this is pretty intense.
It should also be noted that part of what allows the group to be so consistent on the field is not only the level of instruction or talent (there are other groups out there with as great staff and as just much talent these days, but are less consistent), but the fact that the organization is so well run that kids don't have to worry about anything other than their responsibilities on the field. The influence this complete lack of distraction from other issues has on the educators ability to focus only on performance-related issues and the kid's ability to focus on show related issue cannot be understated.
Anyway, back to the discussion that the Blue Devils would be a much better drum corps if they did more pin wheelie things.
Carry on.
Wait... I didnt say that. So please take that quote off because I for sure did not say that lol. Im not friends with any brass captiobn heads or anything
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Sit down and strap in. This has turned into a rather big post.
Have you seen BD's show this year? I guess jazz running 90% of the show is considered "just at the end" now. More on this later.
Really... I always found blocks and diagonals easier because they were just straight lines and grids. Straight lines are simple to clean as long as you're guiding off the right person. I found curvilinear forms 10x harder to clean because they're based entirely on intervals. Intervals around the edge of a non-regular curve (i.e. not a circle) are extremely difficult to judge, especially when that curve is constantly in motion. The ability to maintain consistent intervals around a non-regular curvilinear form requires pinpoint physical precision and constant mental focus. As someone who performed both blocky drill and curvy drill for 3 years, curvy drill impresses me more. I realize it doesn't always have the kaleidoscope-like "wow" factor of geometric drill, but that's a design consideration, not a performance one.
Also, watch BD's curvilinear forms develop. They aren't follow-the-leader, which is a relatively easy form to control. They travel around the curve as the form is changing shape, which is much harder to control as your frame of reference for the edge of the curve and its intervals are constantly changing.
Oh, good. We agree then.
See points 1 and 2. Also, it's sometimes difficult to tell if the Devils are jazz running because they now use a more lifted jazz run technique designed to maintain the same look as their regular straight-leg technique. In fact, the goal is to not be able to tell the difference between a performer who is jazz running and one who isn't. This contributes greatly to their visual uniformity. The lifted run is very different from their older "squat and go" running technique used in the 90's and early 00's (which is still used by some other corps).
If you want a great example of this, compare the ending of their 2000 show with the end of their 2007 opener:
(times are listed with respect to videos on the Fan Network)
- In 2000, watch 11:46 - 11:53. Look at the technique used by the performers on the edges of the block/parallelogram rotation. Even though this is a high cam shot, you can clearly see the "squat and go" technique used for the huge steps to get around the edge of the form. It's clear from the box that they're seriously hauling.
- In 2007, watch 4:45 - 4:48. Look at the technique used by the performers on the right side of the screen (jazz running) compared to those on the left (regular marching). They look identical, and from the stands you would never be able to pick this out. The side effect of this visual uniformity is that it looks like they're never jazz running. Visual judges on the field can see it, but it blends in from the box.
I really wish DCP wasn't so Tube-a-phobic (in reference to YouTube). I've got some great close-up videos from the Devils' 2007 semifinals visual rehearsal, and man... holy smokes were they hauling. Not only were they hauling, they looked like gods doing it. It's much easier to tell how much they were running when they were in rehearsal clothes.
I value your opinion based on your show-watching just as much as anyone else's. However, keep in mind that when you base your opinion off that, you'll be heavily biased towards the show-design perspective rather than demand. Although I'm sure plenty of people here will argue otherwise, I think you really do have to have marched somewhere to understand the intricacies of what is demanding and what is not. It's something you just can't get from watching shows. There are plenty of things that look hard that aren't, and plenty of things that look easy but aren't. The only way to know the difference is to do it yourself.
Having said that, I have a feeling that's why the Blue Devils get the short end of the stick in this argument. When I watch some corps, it makes me wonder if they're trying to make everything look hard. The Blue Devils, on the other hand, try to make everything look easy, regardless of whether it actually is or not. I've talked to plenty of my friends who have marched BD and it's abundantly clear from what they've told me that BD shows are not easy. But the thing about the Devils is, if their show looks hard, they're doing their job wrong. They're supposed to make it look so easy that CubanM11 could march it (if he could make the corps). That's part of their philosophy.
Give this guy 50 DCP championship rings. We need more logical people like you! Please don't go away!
Hmm, very good points. I will have to watch the videos more closely. I was just going to ask today for some evidence of their drill in which their fans think is hard. And you gave me acual things that I can look up and watch. I was not aware of their style with jazz running, and I have really close seats in finals, so I will be sure to watch for that. I appreciate all of the evidence that you gave, and that you are not being a jerk about it. Thanks, and I will be sure to watch the vids and "eduacate" my self. :) <-------(I was NOT trying to be sarcastic). And one more thing, I talked to Cuban, and he acually did march in a great corp, but I'm not gonan spill the beans, because for somereason he doesnt want to.
"There are plenty of things that look hard that aren't, and plenty of things that look easy but aren't. The only way to know the difference is to do it yourself"
About that part, that is very true, because when I first saw people do body movements, I thought "oh man thats so easy" but then when I acually learned some, I realized how akward it is for you to relax while playing and holding those positions. Very true statement on your part.
- In 2000, watch 11:46 - 11:53. Look at the technique used by the performers on the edges of the block/parallelogram rotation. Even though this is a high cam shot, you can clearly see the "squat and go" technique used for the huge steps to get around the edge of the form. It's clear from the box that they're seriously hauling.
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You got it. To be fair to the judges, when you get to the top 5 and all the shows are rally good with difficulty in different areas, it gets really tough to separate. They do their best and are human and we will always disagree, so it's a lose for them regardless.
You have good points, it's just such a fine line at the top and once they have seen the shows 5 or 6 times each, they have a pretty good idea of the difficulty and we just have to put faith in that they will do their best to be fair and call it like they see it. All the members of every corps bust their butt on their show, so we just hope its fair at the end.
Ya exactly. Just like my band director says "They are just people saying their oppinon". I guess at times we are harsh on the judges, I just wish like the points part would have more weight in the execution part. Good points though
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Totally disagree and this is the problem with the judging today. It's not about clean per se, but about the "what" versus the "how". Why do I love that Scouts 88 won? Because they were nowhere as clean as BD or SCV, but man, they brought it at finals. ( hope that doesn't offend you Scout guys, but it's the truth). In the judges eyes, the balance of "what" they brought outweighed the little bit of "how" it was achieved from an execution standpoint.
I am close friends with many of the top 12 Brass Caption Heads and one thing they all complain about is that every year the brass trophy often comes down to who is playing the cleanest finals week. It should not alway be this way, unless all corps have the exact same show. How and What is one of the hardest things to gauge as a judge and its truly the most subjective part of judging the marching arts.
Just my thoughts.
Ya. I see what your saying. Idk, I guess I just see it as, if you put hard stuff in your show, and on finals day, its clean, then you get lots of points. You know? I do see what your saying though. I just feel that the judging can be unbalanced some times, but none of us can control that.
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You think the Cavies aren't winning because they have a harder show?!?! That wasn't the reason they lost in Normal or Decatur. They lost because they didn't play as well or perform as well.
huh? I was acually complimenting them for having hard drill...
Best/Favorite Opening Statements
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Crown 07. ( the long chord)
and
Phantom 06. (the first LOUD note)