Phirebird
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Posts posted by Phirebird
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Really? The shows I've been to the crowd found a lot of things exciting that weren't cheesy at all. SCV's Ballad Hit. The Star 93 quote in PR's show. Cadets closing moments. Cavaliers max section. etc.
The most exciting parts of crown's show to me are the Rach. If there was a lot more Rach and a lot less Roll, I think a LOT more people would be on board with them. What is exciting to an 8th grade band student, usually isn't exciting to the rest of the crowd.
There's a ton of Rach. May not be slapping you in the face like the roll, but it's woven into every second of music.
And last I checked I knew a ton more middle aged white guys listening to classic rock then 8th grade boys, so stop trying to stigmatize...and quite poorly at that.
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How about helping to educate the unwashed masses?
Can you give us some examples (time points in the Fan Network videos would be very useful) of "cheese" in this year's shows, especially Crown's?
If you don't see it in Crown's show, then it can't be shown to you.
Obvious troll is obvious
So, all stuff the audience has found entertaining. Gotcha.
Fuzzy math you got there. I don't like all cheese, particularly swiss...not a fan. But I do love a good sharp cheddar. Are they not both cheeses?
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I believe they're over in the DCA forums
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1 Rach Star guard member does not a 1st place guard make.
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Yeah, but can they play them?
Considering that year's line had a member from each of the following: The Cavaliers, Bluecoats, BD, Phantom, Crown and Xmen
not to mention the 4 Texas All Staters. So I'd say ya....they can play them...
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Plenty of HS programs use contras and even a few colleges use them
Like the University of Texas at Arlington. They got Madison's 2008 contras.
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Some really good and interesting discussion going on. Thanks guys and keep it up!
This is the positive side of DCP -
instead of talking about it on here, go out and use that energy to start a local drum corps if you think the interest is so high in it. if the interest is high enough, maybe some of the changes to dci being spoken of on here will be the result.
That's not the issue, though. The real backbone of the idea is the general support of the current fan-base.
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The system Professional Baseball has in place I think best reflects what I'm thinking of.
1) School athletics provides the introduction to the sport and the skill set. Most people who play in school don't go on to play pro, but they still appreciate it.
2) The minor leagues provides a valuable tool for grooming potential candidates for Major League play, but the MBL isn't pumping millions into promoting the minors.
3) The Major League is the face of baseball and spectators are not just people who once played baseball.
The only difference is that I would like to see a DCI Major League where the top tier is not dominated by one or two or three powerhouses every year.
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The system described by the OP is pretty close to what we actually have now. In my opinion, we do have 17 really strong drum corps.... maybe not "powerhouses," but I think almost all would agree, it is the best 17 as a whole we have ever had. (If it is unclear which 17 I am speaking of, the 13-17 place corps this year will likely come from Spirit, Glassmen, Troopers, Academy, Colts, or Crossmen). Not to diss any of the other corps like Pacific Crest, Pioneer, Jersey Surf etc... but these 17 truly are DCI. They aren't just the current top 17, or the top 17 from last year, they are nearly the top 17 corps of the DCI era. Obviously Academy is the historical exception, and to some extent Colts... but since 1972, only 27th Lancers, Star, Bridgemen, and Kingsmen (mostly just because of their championship) deserve to be in the same conversation with this current group. The reason it is impossible for Crossmen to win next year is because their staff/design team/member talent cannot reach "Cadeveliers" level in just one year. But, there is no reason why them or any other corps in this group could not ascend in the next few years. Just 7-8 years ago Crown would have ranked near the bottom of this group in terms of historical competitiveness, but look where they are now.
And on the high school marching band side of things.... yes, you are right... they are preparing kids for high-level drum corps better than ever before. So I don't think there needs to be a radical shift to make this activity better. I do wish there were a few more "second tier" corps so kids that don't have access to decent high school competitive marching band can still learn the needed skills... but we don't need dozens of them as we had in the past.
I believe the competition at the top is getting better every year. I'll go back to my example of the Crossmen, who just a few years ago was a regular finalist. Have they gotten much worse?.... to my eyes and ears, they have not. It just that a 9th place show 8 years ago is now only good for 16th-17th. At the very top in the late 90's - early 00's it was very lonely. After Star left and Phantom declined a bit... it really was just the big 3, plus SCV with the occasional really good year (like '99). But just outside them.... look at the 5th place corps for those years (usually Glassmen or BAC). Did anyone really think they had championship worthy shows/performance levels? Compare that to last year's 5th place show (Cadets). My point is that although the same 3 corps are still just about the best year in and year out, more and more corps are beginning to break into the realm of "contenders." Contrary to the belief of many, I see the activity getting stronger.
This is what I was getting at with the high school band part. I'm not proposing the elimination of all corps but a top group, but the marketing of a top-tier league.
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Approx. 80% of the DCI Titles have been one by The Cavaliers ( Cadets, Devs, Cavaliers ) since 1979. Every decade or so, some other Corps wins the DCI Title before falling way back or disappearing altogether. My comments were directed to your apparent belief that there is a surprise most years as to who wins the DCI Title, quite apart from these 3 Corps. However, as the historical data seems to demonstrate, the " surprise " is when one of the Cavaliers does not win the DCI Title in a given year. Once gain, almost like clockwork, here we are in July, 2011, and the Cavaliers are well positioned to win it all once again. Can some other Corps besides the Cavaliers win the DCI this year ? Sure. But they'll have to top not 1 or 2 of the Cavaliers to do so, but all three. I do think it's possible. But I'd be " surprised " if any other Corps did, and I certainly wouldn't bet the farm on it. Would you ? Who do you predict will win the DCI Title this year by the way ? I'm predicting The Cadets. But perhaps, it'll be the Cavs or Devs ( Crown, maybe a longshot. )
There is no surprise. I'm not sure how you even came to that conclusion from my OP. I'm proposing DCI and it's fans think of ways to get the activity to a level where several corps are likely to win it all in any given year.
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Let me get this straight... you believe that getting rid of Open Class and World Class 17th-23rd would allow Academy (2010's 14th place) to place 3rd this year and win next year? Because lots of marching bands exist?
We can definitely make a list of reasons why Academy is not in 3rd place. The existence of Pioneer and Teal Sound is not going to come in very high on that list.
I'm talking about a number of corps all being top 6 quality. I am in no way saying that lower corps could not, one day, be a part of the WC competition. The dream is that we have more then a handful of corps competing for a title every year. Wouldn't it be nice to have a world where corps like Academy and Teal and Pioneer are competing every season at BD/Cadet/Cavalier level.
I'm not saying that the corps you mentioned can't place high because of marching band.
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Okay, but my question for you is how do we go from this: . . .
. . .to this:
I'm not finding fault with your idea of having 12-16 "supercorps", but just how you expect things to get to that point logistically, tour-wise, and what kinds of changes there might have to be judging-wise for "any given night" as you propose above.
We promote primarily the best DCI has to offer to the "non DCI fan-base." We do so a little, but at great grievance from the current fan-base. You have to show the best of your available products. Your fan-base already knows the whole game and all the players. The best draw the new fans in. But it really would take the great majority of the current fan-base being on board with the idea for it to work. In order for that to happen, we need to realize that marching band is doing the purpose of the DCs of yesteryear treat DCI as the marketable sport/cultural event that it is.
But to be honest it's just an idea. The actual fleshing out would have to come from much more business-savvy minds then mine.
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I love your enthusiasm. But just one question.. have you been in a time capsule since around maybe 1975 or so ?
Care to expand, or are you just going to be snarky?
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One gripe I constantly hear from some fans is that DCI isn't a "youth" activity anymore. There aren't "neighborhood" corps that take in kids, teach them to play and be disciplined, etc.
The other major gripe I hear (often from the same segment of fans) is about the G8. We all know the arguments, no need to rehash them here.
But I dream of a day when the G8 is not needed anymore. Not dead or replaced, just not needed. Why? Because we have 12-16 corps in WC left. I know what you're thinking...but hear me out. Now these remaining corps are each a powerhouse. Every single year is a mystery as to who will win. A corps could place 14th one year, 3rd then next and then take gold the next year. No longer are we sitting around talking about BD, Cadets, and The Cavaliers being shoe-ins for the top 3 and hope that one or two corps might challenge their dominance this year.
Now I know what a lot of you are thinking. Not very many corps. Where will kids get the experience you knew BITD? This isn't to say that there shouldn't be a 2nd tier of drum corps (perhaps a feeder corps system?). But times have changed. Where are kids getting their experience? Marching Band.
Marching bands these days ARE the neighborhood corps of days past. There's at least one in every town and they do exactly what the corps of yesteryear did. They take kids and teach them to play and to march and to be disciplined. Ask anyone who has ever been in marching band or had a kid in marching band or worked with a marching band; kids in band are some of the best kids in school. Not because band draws in the "good" kids, but because it fosters those good attributes. Isn't that what most older fans miss from the neighborhood drum corps?
So isn't it time that we let the past be the past? Respect it, remember it, but it's time to move on. Kids across the country are getting solid educations and get to aspire to compete at a truly pro level. And as a fan, I for one know that I would love to attend a finals night where it's anyone's game.
What say you, DCP?
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It's July 5th. No guard is clean. You might see some clean guards this time in August. But even the ones at the top still have some serious dirt.
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Puerto Rico. Not a full fledged state, but their uniforms would be wicked colorful and they'd always play catchy island tunes.
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Not a drill move, but if you listen real closely you'll hear the pit quote "Rock Me Amadeus" by Falco. It's a real test of listening skill cause it's crazy buried. Maybe an inside joke with the staff or pit or something?
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Thread = Hijacked
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Dear OP,
Welcome to the interwebs. Please construct a proper thread and poll with more then 5 choices and come back to us. Until then, this can't be taken seriously and we won't even read it.
Excelsior,
/dcp/
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And I was wrong to say most don't want to be there and that isn't the case. But all it takes is a few kids out of 100 to ruin the show gabbing the night away so fans within a 15 ft radius can every bit of their conversation. And during the shows. Not at INT or in between corps, I could care less then. But when you hear, "hey guess where I'm at? what are you up to tonight? Btw, so and so are doing this and that and yadda yadda yadda", that is my reasoning for not wanting to put myself in that area. I didn't go there for that. I doubt very many people did. But to be fair, some adults for that matter can be just as disruptive. See my original post,
A self professed drum corps snob
This sounds much more reasonable then originally posted.
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Did they? I thought that there were more than 8 corps.
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I will NOT sit outside the 30 yard lines as this area tends to be populated with high school band kids who most have no interest in watching and appreciating what they are there for in the first place. Now it is worse than ever with cellphones and it feels like I'm back at recess and I am too old for that S#*t.
While I agree and disagree with several of your statements, this one particularly got at me.
As a band director who is often there with those high school kids you talk about, I have to speak against this. Their generation is different from mine, yours, and every one before them. They may be on their phones, they may not be the fan you want them to be, but to suggest that they are uninterested or unappreciative is BS. For all you know they might be using their phones to post to facebook or twitter about how awesome a corps is. I make sure to tell my band kids how it is not a typical concert, people talk and comment and have food, but that they should keep comments quiet (especially if it's ill about a corps. never know who's mom/dad is in ear-shot) and if they see something they like to cheer and clap. They don't always follow the advice, but they were never forced to be there. They went because I show DC videos and they WANT to be there. After the night is over the kids are always pumped and loved what they saw, especially the first timers.
I understand COMPLETELY that they can be a bit much. I make sure to attend at least one show with just me and the spouse and maybe some close friends in good seats. And I completely understand if you don't wish to sit next to them. But they are the future of this activity and it would be good to remember that.
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Some really cool insights here. Keep em coming.
Where's the cheese?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Fixed :)