pagentryfan
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Posts posted by pagentryfan
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I suppose it's about that time to start nit-picking over stupid little things. Here's a newsflash...these groups bust their butts practicing weekend after weekend to perform for a crowd. Having been a long time performer myself, the performing group does in fact hear, and respond to the crowd. Part of the problem is that we as an audience become so reserved as to applaud for what we think is an acceptable applause point. There are just horn line people in the stands, along with just drum line or color guard people watching and appreciating. We all have different opinions of WHAT to cheer for. Get over it...it is crowd response...so what if it is from the guard staff, they are apart of the crowd too.
Instead of complaining about the guard staff responding to their show, why not start a thread about the show host educating and enforcing the "do not stand or leave during a corps performance." That has always been and will always be my #1 complaint about the Bridgeport show. I get it, the crowd is made up of inexperienced corps viewers, but still...can we make an announcement, maybe have ushers in the stands, a sign or two...something?
That's all. stepping down off my soapbox.
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At the end of the day---isn't there enough creativity and source material that we can just avoid doing a show where there is the possibility of offending someone? Okay, creativity...sure, freedom of speech...sure, taxpayer this, taxpayer that--but if the design staffs creativity brought them to the lynching of a slave over a tree, they could surely create a program that WOULD NOT lynch the slave. ESPECIALLY in the public school/marching band end of this discussion, with so much focus on lack of funding and school districts struggling to maintain the arts---why give them a reason? Choose your battles!!
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I must commend the Hurcs guard for their opener flag, it gives the audience the look of the Union Jack with curved lines and the pastel color alternative . From what I recall, their closer flag is missing the white stripes from the red portion of the flag. So, like someone said earlier...just because it looks like a duck, doesn't necessarily mean it is a duck! In my experience of having to design a show depicting flags from different cultures--it put my mind at ease knowing that I eliminated elements of the actual design and altering the color scheme so that it was not a replica, but an inspired look.
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I can also say this was not the first time I've seen something like this from this corps.
agreed. I recall quite the stir on these forums last year with their guards poor decorum during finals retreat. I always hate to see a group getting the, "they had a wonderful performance...but" comments. Being a competitor means a whole hell of a lot more than getting more points than another corps. Let's also not forget that respect is earned not given!
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Well, that 76.6 from MBi sure does throw a wrench into the prediction equation. Just goes to show us all, placing too much emphasis on a DCI read of a DCA show Is all in vain. Best of luck to all in Conn, and safe travels!
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The experience of being completely removed from the outside world and having NOTHING to worry about except corps. Cell phones were just starting to pop up when I marched, but now...kids are on water breaks posting on facebook. I liked the fact that whatever current events news I got on tour was from the cook truck white board.
I should rephrase...it's not that the experience is less fulfilling, just cheapened!
Just curious, pagentryfan, what experience did you have that the kids today are not getting?
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"Back in my day" (2000)--drum corps was NOT this expensive, so to me, it was amazingly worth it. To this day, I still look upon my time in DCI World Class with wonderful memories and an amazing experience.
Now adays--kids are spending close to $5000 for the summer (if they choose to march with a not pseudo-local corps), have to "move in" in the beginning of May (who can do that?) and STILL don't get the experience that we got "back in the day."
One of the obvious "draw ins" to marching World Class is the ability to do the activity everyday and totally remove themselves from real life. Another draw in is the ability and the chance to perform. With the "stay at home" model you provided...that student doesn't get the adreneline rush you get to perform to packed stadiums. There is also the advantage of making connections everywhere! (I got a well-paying teaching gig while on tour since the brass caption head was from the East Coast and the HS he taught needed a guard person.)
I don't know--it's double edged. What I can say is that marching corps gives you an experience that you simply cannot replicate by taking privates and living an everday music ed life.
I'm sure there will be some negative responses to this thread, and that's fine. I am just wondering if "the drum corps experience" is worth what it costs these days, and if it outweighs giving up other opportunities. Opportunity cost is key here; the cost of doing something (in this case marching corps) also includes the cost of not doing other things.
Now, say you have two kids who are in college, in, let's say, Kansas City. One decides to march with Spirit of Atlanta, the other stays at his apartment near school for the summer.
The drum corps kid pays:
$2400 for corps fees
$75 for the audition
$450 for camp fees (6 camps x $75)
$10 for an audition packet
Now, let's say for the sake of argument, since he doesn't have a car and has classes until Friday afternoon, driving isn't an option, so he is able to get flights for an average of $200 (which is pretty optimistic). $200 x 6 = $1200, so his total cost of being in the corps is:
~$4135 for a summer in Spirit of Atlanta (all these numbers are from their web page).
The non-corps kid decides to take lessons from the principal of the local symphony. These aren't cheap, so he is paying top dollar: $80/hr, once a week. Let's say 12 weeks of summer, so we end up with $960 of one-on-one instruction from a top musician, and since it is summer, he can afford to practice four hours a day. He decides to get in shape for the summer, so he pays $50 a month to join a fitness club, $150 total. He spends about $20 a day on food, so that comes to about $1800 total. He also has to pay rent, about $450 a month or $1350 total (the corps kid is subletting his place, so he breaks even). In total, that comes out to: ~$4260, around the same as the drum corps kid. He could get a part-time job and make back some of that money, or he could spend that time doing other things, like independent reading up on subjects related to his major.
At the end of the summer, the corps kid has toured the country, though mainly high school football fields, made some great friends, performed a lot, gotten in shape, etc. The non-corps kid has vastly improved in his own personal musicianship and repertoire, is planning on doing an independent research project with a professor in his department based on his readings, and dropped about 10 pounds going to the gym.
Now, I know there are intangible aspects of the corps experience--I marched World Class for 3 years--but is corps really the best way to spend one's time and money? The answer, of course, is highly subjective, and it depends who you are...but I think it is important to challenge the automatic assumption many have that corps is better than anything else you could do.
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MY FAVS AT WGI
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Sommerville- A wonderful show with amazing kids. That rifle line was great
Lincoln Way North- Absolutely breath taking and had me in tears. The kids were so expressive. The equipment work was so well written. Also, for anyone that wants to learn what dedication is go talk to the girl who performed in a boot/cast. AMAZING!!!
Andy DeKaney- Beautiful show and very expressive.
Apopka- Very neat show and great use of the slides.
SO- I only saw a select few
Lake Central- This show was stunning. The girls moved so well. Awesome soundtrack
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O2- Another beautiful show by these performers. I loved all the detailing in this show
Identity- Those kids can spin. Such a talented group.
SW-
Tarpon Springs- i really enjoyed this show. Some really nice flag moments. Loved how they used the floor.
Lawrence Central- How cool were the boxes? What a great show and I loved the soundtrack
Carmel- I want to be a hand model. Lol LOVED IT!!!
Flanagan- This is probably one of my favorites of all time. These kids spin and perform so well.
IW-
Black Watch- They were soooooo good in finals. In my opinion the best show using THIS BITTER EARTH.
Braddock- That rifle section was insane
Blessed Sac- what an interesting and well thought out show. Loved the pre show!!!
Zydeco- THIS HAS TO BE PUT ON A FAN FAVORITE. That red flag feature was wonderful.
Aimachi- PURE ENTERTAINMENT!!! Thank you
Onyx- WOW!!! This show just sucked you in. No doubt that they were going to take home the gold.
GREAT JOB TO ALL FINALISTS: This was a very entertaining year.
Have to agree with you on Black Watch--aside from the awful flag catastrophe up front (perfect example of why you shouldn't over perform) and the unfortunate saber double turn drop, it was a wonderful performance of This Bitter Earth. Very solid rifle line.
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-Cheering for the non-baton moments in Aimachi. Those performers manuipulating rifle, saber and flag were perhaps the best trained people in WGI this year. Just a shame a lot of their moments got hidden by a baton trick (and no I am not anti-baton, but pro amazing perfomers who needed a little more love). Who saw that amazing ripple double turn around on gun--this fan!
-Lawrence Central's box dominos
-SCV's story teller getting a little choked up in finals
-Logan's amazing performer who SOLD the toppling props at the end of finals
-Pride got the award for "most memorable phrase stuck in your head all weekend"--"REPENT OF YOUR WICKED WAYS"
-Seeing Fantasia and First Flight right next to each other in finals, was kind of like seeing a movie with a whole complete story, albeit backwards
-Imbue's neck roll, hold it there moment in their feature
-Alta Marea: just so fun!
-Cicero-North Syracuse: simply designed, elegant and fierce all rolled into one
-Apopka: such a WONDERFULLY performed and energetic show!!
-Somerville: nothing can explain the love for this team except AMAZING! Oh yeah, and, GET IT HAIR!
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So, who is everyone excited to see? The IW class has a nice little line up.
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I'm really anxious to see Black Watch at a WGI event with other World Teams. I watched their Rochester Performance, and then looked at the number and felt that it was scored lower than they deserved! They are definitly a team capable of making waves this year at the big show!
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My parents met through local drum corps in the 70's in New England, so I recall always KNOWING about drum corps, but my parents never pushed me to do it. Wasn't until high school when I got involved in color guard that a snare drummer friend of mine showed me Cadets 96 from the PBS broadcast. Being a HUGE guard nerd at the time, I geeked out over the amazing guard and WANTED to be them! So I say, to this day 16 years later that Cadets 96 turned me on to drum corps! Funny, I ended up marching Cavaliers--but never forget that the maroon and gold team got my spark ignited. The green team (SPLOOIE) just pushed it further.
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It's just a shame that some of these "iconic" high school color guards aren't being funded in some part to attend their championships (in the case of Logan). These are teams that set the standard and are creating the trend. Yeah, money is tight, but the school that I am a director at with a growing guard of 40 members in 2 teams--our money stays the same no matter how big we grow. But we have noticed that the football team continues to get brand new uniforms every season...and they are not good!
Ah well, Gloria Gaynor said it best...we will survive!
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a judge should be judging what is presented Not a personal preference. You judge the what and the how , a non themed show should be able to have just as much success and a themed show. Look at Phamt. reg. this year sure it was a theme( Juliet ) but other than the girl stabbing herself at the end and they all had dresses on and a Juliet look, thats as far as it went. Many thought , including me in the beginning they were dated, and very 1985 old SCV looking but I must say at the end everthing they did was just right for that show....You just have to do what you do well,and communicate it and have a well written program with all the components within the sheets .
Agreed, judge what is presented. And agreed on the point where you have to do what you do well. BUT--looking at Hurcs and MBI and even Reading. They were the top 3 guards this year, all portraying a different theme and all portraying it in a different way and in different doses. Hurricanes come out with brief case props and flags, cityscape flags and a "suitlike" uniform has to compete against the viking ship, sheilds and paddles, viking character and the set up of valhalla--I'm sorry I have to give it to MBI for the continuity of theme. And it seems that most of the top DCI guard in the last year or two are also protraying a theme...hello, Cadets, Cavaliers, Crown, BD--all theme driven (as well as others).
GUARDLING--trust me, I agree whole heartedly with your sentiments on the judging. And it sounds like you and I have the same taste levels (as I LOVED PR this year), it just doesn't seem to be the trend to reward color guard for color guard sake. Seems like the buzz phrase around the activity is how over the top you take it.
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I know when I go out to retreat I usually can feel the weight of a tough season lift from my shoulders as we line up. It's a weird frame of mind to be in. I'd cut those kids some slack, a bit of loopyness is to be expected at that point. The Hurcs organization is a class act. A little over emoting at retreat doesn't change that.
Well if they are a class act, then I expect the administration of the Hurricane's will be handling these behaviors in the future. Being loopy and relaxed is one thing, but their behavior was a sight to see.
But I find it funny that some here are defending the Hurcs guard and their antics. But let's be real, if Reading did ANYTHING remotely disrespectful at retreat this year, they would have been sore losers and there would have been a mile long post about how "they should be gracious in their loss and thankful for what they have had!" Same can be said here...Hurricane's, you have won guard at every contest this year except finals...be thankful!
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Without "ticks" to count, a judge has to look at the COMPOSITION of the area and say "this guard composition is .1, .2, etc better than that guard." Then the judge looks at EXECUTION of that show and says the same.
It sounds like the Hurcs' guard was way ahead of everyone in the early season, but others caught up. In the case of MBI, they ALMOST (0.1) caught up in execution. However, the Hurcs' composition was exceeded by MBI by 0.2, making up the difference, plus 0.1 left for a spread.
It appears that the color guard judge applied the same principles that a boxing judge does under the "10-point must" system. The winner of a round gets 10 points, the loser 9, unless it is lopsided, then 8.
There are two parts to a color guard score....Hurcs and MBI split.....but MBI was more effective than Hurcs in their stronger component. And since the opinion was rendered by a judge, it's more than an opinion, it's the score and final decision. It is the only opinion that counts. It is the only opinion that appears on the DCA caption RECAP sheet.
.....and, it takes nothing away from the Hurcs guard or their season, just as the Bucs have nothing taken from them or their season. MBI impressed the judges more in that performance.
Joe
I havef also been noticing that the judging in DCA (specifically the guard caption) has been really focusing on how well a group portrays a theme. Reading won the caption in 2010 with the Rome theme approach as well as exceptional spinning, and it looks like MBI took the same approach this year. The viking theme was very prevalent in their 2011 show along win with exceptional spinning and took the caption. After reflecting on the HUrricane's show this year, aside from a suit like uniform and a briefcase prop, I thought the show was just a show. Well done, but nothing that stuck out in the way of themeing. Some will disagree with me on this, but I was more entertained by Reading, MBI and Empire's productions because they were in fact that...a production!
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Honestly, I was working with this corps for the last month, and saw or heard NOTHING like what is being described in these posts. The staff was nothing but professional and I cannot say that I heard much complaining at all. I was actually on retreat but back by the horn line, so I didnt see any bad conduct. Of course they were disappointed but I didnt see or hear the stuff that was being mentioned here at all.
Donny
Donny, I am glad that this beahvior was not something that was a driving force for the team in rehearsals. BUT--as a spectator, we don't know that. I am not sure of your affiliation or closness to the organization, but if I were you I would mention it to Hurcs admin and let them know what spectators are seeing. We all know that in this activity, you can do 50 things well, but the second someone sees something negative that is all anyone remembers. I would hate to go to a show and the only thing I hear is "how unprofessional the Hurricane's guard is." They are a wonderful group of performers, and would want that to shine through!
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was it all really that bad? HMMM I must have missed alot. I did see it wasnt very orderly and maybe even a bit out of control but didnt realise it was what everyone is saying. I chalked it up to age. Its no secret most of the guard there the past several years came from some local High Schools, which is no excuse at all. One can look at a Jr. corps which some are younger BUT , and heres where the face of DCA is changing DCI members mostly are under strict supervision practically every minute of every day. Now within DCA or a DCA corps youre taking a mojority of kids and Im sure with alot less supervision. Kids gone wild, so to speak. Either way Not an excuse and If I were in any capacity part of the corps and saw it I would have mached myself on that field and stopped it.
Oh Well, growing pains. You may not like an out come and even rightfully so and have all the right to express dissapointment but all I would say is TIME AND PLACE.
"Adult Supervision" or not--DCA is comprised of primarily adultsl! When your staff is reacting is a classless way, then what do you think the members will do? I teach a high school program that has more class than what the Hurcs guard displayed in and out of the stadium.
The hurricane's should have known they weren't invincible! Going from a 1.5 point spread in color guard in the beginning to tenths a month before champs! Being really prepared inhe beginning with no place for growth was I think their detriment! BUT--again, the Hurs did put on a great performance, just please match the performance on the field to your retreat and you will be a highly respected guard.
But I agree GUARDLING--time and place! Take it outside to the bus, go to your hotel, get drunk and have a blast!
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Hmmmm, interesting! Me thinks George is putting together a huge list of big names to get the membership to sign the contract and slap over that speculated $1000 tution he posted on facebook about. Considering Jeff and Gino are primary Cadets people, what will happen from the end of May until the 2nd week of August? Will they then come around for the last 3 weeks, walk out with the corps for finals week and expect a win?? Although Rich and Eric are fairly local people and can do amazing things, I just hope this is not all hoopla to get poor unsuspecting local high school kids and their families to shell out money and time for something that is just that...hoopla!
Just seems shady at best!
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Well, I am glad to see that other folks on DCP felt particularly put off by how much of an embarrassment the Hurricane's Color Guard was at retreat! I support the members having fun at retreat because this is the end of their summer long journey, but there is a line. When there are members making an absolute fool of themselves (including tossing around what appeared to be a toy sword) during the announcement of scores from A Class into the lower half of Open Class, that is where I think you start to look tacky and unprofessional. You did not see a hint of professionalism in the group until they announced them in 4th place with no captions! I guess that is when it got serious for them.
I don't want to take away from their accomplishments during their performance, but sometimes it takes seeing a team "off the field" or out of the performance aspect of this activity to see how much they should be respected. Spinning a clean, well written book, tossing and catching 6's and 7's, dancing like no other doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you cannot be a modest performer in a loss. AND COME ON NOW, falling to ground, hyperventilating and having a temper tantrum because you didn't win high guard, get some therapy (which was witnessed)!!
This activity is about giving what you love to do most to the audience...which is why I think groups like Reading, MBI and Empire get kudos from me. They don't get the highest amount of points, and they applaud, chit chat and support the group that does! WHO CARES?! At the end of the day, this is just some instruments and flags on a field and cancer still does not have a cure!
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A little rant for some staff
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
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All joking and snarkiness aside, can't staff cheer anymore? The staff members are the one that see the program all the time and, just like the members...staff members get hyped at shows too. The product they have a hand in creating, in full uniform in front of a crowd...that will charge anyone!