HornTeacher
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Posts posted by HornTeacher
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Fundamentally, there is no " sport " that utilizes musical instruments as its primary means of group competition Additionally, if DCI was " a sport " it could have applied for consideration by the Summer Olympic committees. But it has not.... and for the obvious reasons that its not " a sport ", and would never be considered as such. This does not mean however that its participants don't need skills like strong physical strength and endurance,foot speed & quickness,, dexterity, muscle groups flexibility, versatility, strong hand- eye coordination , etc and so forth that many athletes need to possess in order to be successful in their sport.
Other than the issue of "foot speed and quickness," the qualities you describe here could also very well be ascribed to high-rise construction workers. And last I knew, nobody was classifying that as a sport, either.
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Sounds like a "Viagra" commercial.
I can just hear the disclaimer now..."If your Corps maintains an ovation for more than 4 hours, don't bother calling your doctor; just pick up your Championship Trophy from DCI at headquarters."
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No, but there is extra credit available for participation.
Extra points will be given for unique solutions and/or sardonic wit.
Still won't help me pass. Oh well, there's always summer school.
Wait a second -- is there enough money for summer school????
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The sixth would be preferable to me in certain ways, but you won't get that lineup in this region. You'd get choice 4 crammed up your bohinti whether you'd like it or not.
In fact 1, 4 and 7 would be the only options remotely available to fans in this region. The others wouldn't happen.
Bohinti??? That's a new one on me. I LIKE it!! Thanks for the vocabulary addition.
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I take it then that you would also believe that the plethora of the schools who give PE credit to those who play football is a slap which makes those players feel that the football program is an "alternative" for those who don't have/want physical ability.
It depends upon whether you are talking about college-level or high school-level. It is my "philosophy" that, at the high school-level, students should not receive PE credit based solely on being a member of an athletic team. PE is curricular...athletic teams are extra-curricular. Band is curricular...Marching Band (and Jazz Ensemble, et. al.) are extra-curricular. "Why the basis for the differentiation?", you might ask. Well, it all comes down to an individual school's academic eligibility code. To give an example...my lead trumpet player, IF failing 2 or more subjects, is ineligible from participating in any and all "extra-curriculars" (which means that I lose my lead player for marching band and jazz ensemble...however, he is ALSO lost to any athletic teams of which he may be a current member). However, he IS still lead trumpet for my Concert Band, since it is seen as "curricular."
Based on this, I don't see the fairness of students receiving "curricular" (i.e., PE) credit based upon participation in "extra-curricular" (i.e. Varsity Football, Basketball, Hockey, Tiddley Winks, Marching Band, or Jazz Ensemble) activities.
Now that I've occupied valuable virtual space with this well-intended rant, I do grant that if you are speaking of College-level credit assignments, all bets are off.
Color me naive.
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In fact, this context is the exact, and only reason, music and other "activities" were mentioned at all at the _kid's freshman orientation.
Getting credit for PE by marching in the band somehow feels like a slap to me. As if that music program is an "alternative" for those who don't have/want physical ability. Meh, I'm probably too sensitive.
For what little it may be worth, Gar...not in my book. Not in the least.
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Precisely. Which is why I'm not promoting it as HornTeacher suspected I might be.
The viewpoint that drum corps revenue is a closed system zero-sum game is at the core of what was wrong with their proposal.
I never said that you were "promoting" it...I merely asked if your viewpoint was intended as being of matter quite like "survival of the fittest." And I wasn't thinking of that term as being "one corps eating another," only that it was merely a situation of the fittest surviving (through their own hard work/good planning/providential ties to funding sources).
Your follow-up to my question explained it more fully -- and I am in agreement with you. Thank you for clearing it up for me.
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Again, you conflated my comments to the governing body; I was speaking of the playing field to generate revenue. The governing body of DCI is not involved with an individual corps' ability to generate revenue, except to the extent that they are not allowed to do it by being in competition with another corps (i.e. holding their own show outside of DCI's involvement).
The bylaws are clear in their mandate to hold the board members to their fiduciary duty to put the activity above their individual corps' needs. The basis of that mandate is what was used to prevent the G7 takeover, and it is, therefore, sound in its structure. The fact is that it worked according to plan and hope, despite the surprised indignation of some of the G7 protagonists. (It's entirely possible that, in THEIR view, they were, in fact, acting in the best interest of the activity.)
Still, these facts have little to do with the topic. The fact is that any corps is free to earn as much as it can, any way that it can, and that the playing field is not made un-level simply because some are better earners than others.
Good points, Gar.
To be concise, are you actually simply expounding upon the ideal of "Survival of the Fittest?" I'm not disputing your words...simply trying to put it into shorter and more direct words that this simple mind can understand.
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Ok; then yes, drum corps is a sport. But it is weird that we can talk about all aspects of drum corps, which is a word in the thread, but we apparently cannot reference all aspects of the word Sport, which is also a word in the title of the thread. Wow, knee-jerk reactions are abounding as of late!
How DARE you!!!!!! Knee-jerk reaction???????????
I'll have you know, GOOD SIR, that I spent 17 seconds of my life in compiling my response to you. Knee-jerk reaction my a##.....
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Not only is raising lots of money a 'talent,' garfield, but an absolute requirement to ever be in the big show. There's a sadness, yet acceptance, in this truth to me. Didn't seem as pronounced BITD when there was not such a thing as dues, for instance. Ahhh, progress.
I agree with you, Fred.
As I have had to make my personal mantra..."Welcome to the 21st Century...Welcome to the 21st Century...Welcome to the 21st Century...."
Oh well -- as I've heard it said many times -- "WE are the epitome of the progress of civilization." Those poor extra-terrestrials that we're increasingly hearing about possibly existing elsewhere don't have any idea what backwards cretins they are, do they?
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Good grief; how is asking if martial arts is a sport is any different that asking if the marching arts is a sport is getting off-topic?
1) Because the OP never brought up the "martial arts" in the first place. It was I who (rather stupidly) took it in that direction, albeit unintentionally. In any event, I'm willing to do my penance.
2) The OP opened this thread with the simple question "Does DCI constitute a sport?" (Or words to that effect). He didn't say "marching arts." He said "DCI." Go back and look it up -- I KNOW I'm correct on this one.
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My sincere apologies to the DCP viewership for carrying this whole thread off-topic.
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Apparently it wasn't to Tonya Harding.
I beg to differ. It was Tonya's version of a martial art.
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The modern tendency toward pigeonholing activities into set-in-stone disciplines seems to me, at least, to be rather silly. I mean, I love a good discussion -- heck, a good ol' knock down, drag out fight, even -- as much as anyone. However, there comes a point where the reality that a square peg won't fit into a smaller round hole must be acknowledged (Ok...now we go back to the whole "Reality" discussion. Crap. Thought we were done with that one...).
Figure Skating is primarily a sport which also has artistic tendencies. Drum and Bugle Corps is primarily a musical activity (Yes, yes, I know...other than guard...sheesh!!
) which, more than other musical "arts," also has athletic tendencies. (Which begs the next question(s): Are all sports athletic? Are all athletic activities "sport?" Inquiring minds really DO want to know!!!)Mallet players strike pieces of wood -- but that sure as heck doesn't make them carpenters (that is, unless Karen and Richard were mallet players as well las singers).
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Is figure skating an Art?
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I realize that many corps get good deals on the equipment and then sell them after a certain time, so there isn't that much cost involved in the equipment itself. But...five marimbas and four vibes takes up a lot of space on equipment trucks and there has been a cost to making the trucks able to handle all that, plus multiple timpani. (Some corps have had to buy a new truck tractor better able to handle the additional equipment.) I call it the "pit arms race." If one corps decides to up the ante, others will soon follow. It's just how things work. (I'm not ragging on the front ensembles or the arrangers. I love what corps are doing...now more than ever. I just wish it didn't come with such a hit in the logistics.)
Salient points as always, Mr. Boo. But don't you think (well, maybe HOPE?) that there will come a corps who will see this for what it is, and refuse to enter the "race?" Like many other things in life, all it takes for change is ONE...since very few in our society (and I say that only relatavistically) have the cajones to be "the first." However, once one steps forward and says "This is b#######...we're not sucking in," others seem to magically follow. And soon it become a groundswell for change.
I'm sorry for the length of the rant...but the thoughts areno less than genuine, nevertheless.
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DCP; a place where it is required for us to be repeatedly redundant and repetitious; so for the umphteen time my thought on definitions, not on feelings, nor on experiences, but on 'defining' the drum corps activity: 1) All Drum Corps are Marching Bands but not all Marching Bands are Drum Corps; 2) DCI Drum Corps instrumentation, not DCA or SDCA, but DCI instrumentation is quickly losing its uniqueness as being a unique drum corps because; 3) DCI drum Corps instrumentation has actually been morphing into just a higher level version of BOAesque Marching Band instrumentation where the only difference between DCI and BOA will be that DCI is an independent summer touring activity and BOA is a scholastically fall oriented regional/national activity. That is my position.
And at the supreme risk of making myself to look the total idiot...I say that your synopsis makes absolute sense. There is no way in Hades that I could have possibly stated it better. You have my kudos, Sir.
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Different school, likely similar philosophies to tOSU. Most college marching bands are run/funded by the Athletic Department (plus boosters/donations of course), and thus their primary goal is to support athletics and University endeavors and not necessarily competitive endeavors.
Good post, Perc. But to be honest, I did have to chuckle at the cited line above. Last I knew, athletics ARE competitive endeavors.
Please -- I "get" the gist of your ideas. I'm not being contrarian -- I just found the apparent "athletic/not competitive" wording rather amusing.
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Completely agree, to the point that I'm smiling as I read this. Having said that I'm not going to (and my sense is that you are not) criticize the pit member for utilizing techniques taught them by their staff. And yes, having read dozens and dozens of your pieces I don't want to suggest you're implying that criticism.
Sometimes I think the answer to these gianormous pits that grew from a single marching set of bells, and 4 marching (barely tuneable) tymps is "Because we can..."
We just got used to seeing those numbers up front - maybe it's good simply because it opens up that many more positions for young musicians, but my sense is that the optimum corps size is now a little less than the 150 on the field.
Still love huge corps, but hate to see corps going out of business because they can't afford to outfit or move that many people - especially because they don't really require them all.
Good post, Ray.
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Moscow on the Hudson?
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Hey, at some point, you have to be true to yourself and take a stand. Do you really want to conceal your love of this activity? You should be proselytizing, if you are a true fan.
And besides, why worry about looking like a nerd, unless you really are, you know, nerdy? If you are a cool dude, then your recommendation of seeing a drum corps show will automatically be perceived as cool. Cool is as cool does, you know.
Point taken.
My horned-rimmed glasses, well-worn pocket protector, and lifelong IBM preffered parking pass have been readily consigned to the permanent out file.
Go, Troop!!!
(P.S. -- No, in no shape, manner, or form do I consider myself to be a "cool dude." Don't want it...don't need it. End of story.
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Let me get this straight. My boss enters the elevator. Along with him walks his secretary, the living embodiment of Venus here on Earth.
I take it that my job is to recruit two new members to the "Drum and Bugle Corps" fold. Am I correct so far?
Ok...well...look guys -- I love Drum and Bugle Corps. Have for 40 years. However...let's get real.
If my (implied) aim is to attract a new member to fandom...who'l kidding who? The LAST thing I'm going to do is project the nerdy "Hey! I've got something really fun for you. On Saturday, let's go to a DRUM AND BUGLE CORPS show!!!"
I'm sorry...but my fandom allegiances only run so deep....
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I would look at both the boss and assistant and state the following, "Well,... it is a youth driven life experience musical activity which is actually on par with the high caliber business you run and the quality of people you associate with this company. Many of these kids will actually go on and do great things in life, not only in music but in all forms of business, due to the high level of performance exhibited by these national touring musical ensembles. Would either one of you like to join me for dinner this evening to find out more about what a great and wonderful activity this is?" (asking that question, of course, while looking directly at the assistant).
My. my...under that hard, irascible, crusty exterior lies the heart of a true Lothario!!! C'mon Sir, admit it...you can't fool us. We've known it all along.
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Is Drum Corps a sport?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
And I never said that you DID. I was agreeing with your point of view (or at least as I understood it) -- that while many qualities which we find to be a part of Drum and Bugle Corps also are an inherent part of many other activities and/or occupations including that of "sport," it doesn't necessarily follow that they, as a simple result become "sport."
From my point of view, all of this B&M'ing over individual selected words in selected texts has become tiresome. If I wanted a debate with Webster or Roget, I'd take them to bed with me. But I choose not to do so, for reasons that are not any business of anyone else but my own.
Maybe I need to grow a thicker skin. Maybe I need to grow up and be an adult. Maybe I need a lot of things. But that is for ME, and ME alone, to know and/or decide.
In the meantime, I'll just sit here and anxiously await the 2014 DCI season...just as I have for the past 40 years. I possess the good feeling that, at least for most of you, this is the goal as well.