Box5Opinion
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Posts posted by Box5Opinion
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2 minutes ago, brassboy said:
That's been my observation too, but I thought I was crazy based on everyone else's comments.
Something the only voices in this echo chamber are one's that are the loudest. I'm not loud, I just like to point things out. Excellent is excellence and achievement can be developed over time. You reward what you see and hear! Just my 2 cents!
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5 minutes ago, kinetic inferno11 said:
Boston and Bluecoats have had far too many drops as of late to be up there with BD at the moment. That could change of course, but BD is clearly the cleaner group currently. Crown is certainly headed back to the right direction of contender status, but their book is not up to the difficulty of BD and Boston in either movement or equipment. Bluecoats have too much dirt in their flag work. The movement with the key-tar was pretty messy at the preview.
I was in Pasadena, San Bernardino too, you might want to revisit those youtube videos after tonight's show. BD has one of the weakest rifle lines in recent memory, flags are doing extremely well, dance and body movement is improving but no amount of sequin, shades of blue color, ripple effects will be able to hide that they are struggling, this is new territory for them, maybe they will clean, enhance and produce one of the greatest performances in August but as of July 2? No!
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7 minutes ago, kinetic inferno11 said:
I will say, after seeing everyone at the top now, BD’s guard is easily top 2 if not capable of winning it outright. They are cleaner than Boston at this point and have some more complexity to their book now then they did a week ago.
Those days are over, "outright" are you kidding me! Boston Crusaders, Carolina Crown and Bluecoats beg to differ 😉
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Rough performance for BD tonight, show has tons potential. Already making changes and they need to clean and clean some more. Several holes tonight, this might be the new normal in this changing environment.
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2 hours ago, Incognito365 said:
I think this show for Bloo will be like Jagged Line. Come out swinging, fizzle out halfway through the season, end up 3rd or 4th. I personally didn't like the show. At first I thought it was Smokey and the Bandit, and I was on board. Once it started it lost my attention so much over the course of the next 10 minutes. They need to change it to Smokey and the Bandit, and add in a Mello rip of "East Bound and Down". Then I'll be on board again. Sorely disappointed after 2019 and 2021. I say Crown will take them by seasons end. To me it's between BD and Crown.
I disagree about Bluecoats, but that's for another thread. I seen BD/SCV/Bluecoats/Boston Crusaders, haven't seen Carolina Crown (ambitious use of technology - apps during show) might influence GE. But I want to see the show (RIGHT HERE/RIGHT NOW!!!!) to better gauge their potential. Will brass be strong (you bet), will they have a strong guard and percussion (I have no idea), will the music, visual and drill be good and push the show (idk), I am open to anyone bringing it on the field. Excellence is excellence, I can tell you a work of art when I see it! 😉
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Can't predict actual placement but here is my opinion how things might/will shake out
But anything can happen!! Placement is not set in stone!
Tier 1 corps - Bluecoats/Blue Devils/Boston Crusaders/Santa Clara Vanguard/Carolina Crown - not been able to see them yet!
Tier 2 corps - Phantom Regiment/Mandarins/the Cadets - not been able to see them yet!/Cavaliers/Blue Knights - not been able to see them yet!
Tier 3 corps - Blue Stars/Crossmen/Academy/Madison Scouts - not been able to see them yet!/Troopers - not been able to see them yet!
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6 hours ago, Newseditor44 said:
It’s clear this season a lot of the corps have placed an emphasis on points rather than connecting with the masses. While the performance level is amazing, the design is clearly pointing towards the sheets and not the overall fan experience (yes this can be argued, but seems to be a theme). The question I pose to all of you, if you had one choice and had to design a show that appealed to the judges, or to the fans, which would you choose? Is it more important to create a complicated show that performs well on the sheets, or design a show that has massive fan appeal? And yes, you can do both, but I’m not giving you that option. You have to chose one or the other.
Ready, go!
It all depends if your have the money (show design, props, equipment), staff (longevity, synergy), talent (depth and member pool). DCI is evolving at a rapid pace (WGI, BOA) and trends are ever changing. It's evolve or be left out. Show designs is major but execution of excellence is critical whether getting the judges or audience attention. My 2 cents!
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Having seen BD (2x), SCV (3x) live, after last nights show in Detroit, I would say that the Blue Devils, Bluecoats are on the hunt for title. I would not count out Boston Crusaders or SCV, theses shows have so much potential. Have not seen Carolina Crown YET!!! so anything and everything can change 😉
Bluecoats - the uniform works for me, the show idea is EPIC (extremely complex but it's a journey and the narration works) keeps the music engaging, good soloist, visually lots of original ideas, is it clean NOOO!!! but the concept/music and execution will improve throughout the season. Great vehicle for them, this summer. (The metal tires) need color, it doesn't match the other props or color scheme! My 2 cents!
Boston Crusaders - the uniform is perfect for them, great show idea, music is awesome - staging of solos need work (need some type of color to draw the eye to the soloist or where it's coming from, STRONG color guard, better percussion and brass section. LOVE the conical prop and it moves with the music and drill!!! YES! CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN and they should do well this summer!
Santa Clara Vanguard - interesting show concept and music selection. The uniform is a problem for me (Boston made the effort for making it look like a uniform), SCV looks like a bad middle school production of marching band - not flattering. PERCUSSION hands down will be the force to reckon with this summer. Strong performances with percussion, brass and guard, good drill and visual moments but doesn't it all work together - hmmmmm not yet, it has tons of potential. NEEDS color to POP, can't wait to see and hear how this show develops over the season.
Blue Devils - love the show concept, strong sections across the board, if there is a weak section it's the color guard - rifle line. The music works well and the brass staging when the music gets complex is excellent at this point of the season, strong soloist. LOVE the color scheme and the flags in the color guard (medieval flag - first flag in the show is AWESOME), all the other one's complement and enhance the visual aspects of the music. This show has very familiar ideas from past shows, so the excellence is high. I expect an extremely clean and maxed show by the end of the season. Narration is a little confusing but who cares, it's the BLUE DEVILS!!!
Corps to watch out for!!!
MANDARINS, PHANTOM REGIMENT
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Why are you doing this? 2019 shows would of been laughed at in 1989. Different score sheets, different style of design, etc...... A better question would be what shows would be able to compete in this day of age with the current scoring system?
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I feel bad for the PR design team, maybe they thought they had a solid design but the structural design of the show isn't there and the execution is way off (for now) or maybe they have a young group that isn't rising to the levels of the staff, I don't know? PR members and staff are working with a show that they were given and designed and now both need to deliver a worthy finals caliber show. But I bet that they are hearing it from the judges across all captions. So all the could of, would of, should of is pointless. Let the season evolve and play out. Maybe PR will surprise everyone and over come early season obstacles and surprise everyone. Best of luck PR! I will keep an open mind.
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Here we go again, so I took this from the DCI site. Just to clarify!
Responsibilities: One of the GE judges has a music background and the other has a visual background, but each utilizes the same judging sheet because they are effectively judging the entire show, not just the effect of the music offering or the effect of the visual production. GE judges must be the most experienced, most knowledgeable, and most flexible members of the audience. Plus, they know how to manage numbers in order to give a proper score. The GE judges are doing the romantic job, they’re feeling what the show is offering and responding to what the show is. There are three parts to GE, the intellectual, the aesthetic, and the emotional.
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1. Who ever scores the highest in GE and Visual at Finals.
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12. Congratulations you made the cut! Thank your design team!
Hoping for a great season. I am open to anyone/group who is innovative and thoroughly thought out their show and are able to maximize their music and visual and are performing at a high level! Bring it!
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Waiting patiently to see and hear another amazing show! #NHHH just like the Met Gala!!!!
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41 minutes ago, Cappybara said:
This whole conversation will be moot when another corps from the west coast will win, once again
Agree, Crown better bring it! Can't wait see and hear what they have planned for 2019!
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6 hours ago, SFZFAN said:
Some of the worst things ever allowed on a football field.
I believe their GE and Visual scores overall at finals begs to differ. Thou you may not like the uniform. I think that the judges liked the concept and those performers and corp made it work! Thank you Blue Stars for thinking outside the box and coming up an original costume for a uniform!
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Predictions for 2019
1. either: Blue Devils/Crown/Bluecoats/Santa Clara Vanguard/Boston Crusaders
2. either: Blue Devils/Crown/Bluecoats/Santa Clara Vanguard/Boston Crusaders
3. either: Blue Devils/Crown/Bluecoats/Santa Clara Vanguard/Boston Crusaders
4. either: Blue Devils/Crown/Bluecoats/Santa Clara Vanguard/Boston Crusaders
5. Cadets/Cavaliers - if no one falls down
6. Cadets/Cavaliers - no tarps this season
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Santa Clara Vanguard
Bluecoats
Blue Stars
Blue Devils
Mandarins
Crown
Honorable Mention: Boston Crusaders
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1 hour ago, SWriverstone said:
There's a well-known and studied psychological phenomenon called the mere-exposure effect (also called the familiarity principle). It means people develop a preference for things merely because they are familiar with them. Put more simply, if you listen to lousy music long enough, you'll start thinking it's good. (This isn't opinion—it's fact.)
It's clear that DCI audiences are suffering from this effect in a big way. Witness what DCI judges considered the pinnacle of shows in 2018 by awarding it a championship (SCV). Now I get that drum corps is more than just music—it's "art" (though I could make a case for why it really isn't, even at the highest levels). Drill, choreography, difficulty, etc. are all part of the activity. But the emotional underpinnings of any show are the music. OK and? You aren't going to be swept to emotional highs by a single high rifle toss or a big two-handed rimshot. The music matters—a lot.
I've spent countless hours of my life studying, listening to, and performing music of all kinds. I have a BM degree from Juilliard—which doesn't make me more knowledgeable than anyone else—it simply certifies that I'm very knowledgeable about music I don't know, you might be a vocalist or string major who barely passed his or her juries, but continue! -and what distinguishes good music from bad music. Contrary to popular belief, music isn't "in the ear of the beholder." It's entirely possible to judge it objectively and even place it (roughly) on a universal scale from bad to good. (If you're someone who believes the quality of music is entirely subjective, you're a hypocrite—because you logically must say the same about everything in life—which I'm sure you don't.)
So on to SCV's show: I've watched it several times. Not dozens or hundreds of times—because remember the mere-exposure effect? I'm not going to destroy my judgement by watching it every day for the entire summer (like the corps members and staff do). The first criterion for great music is that—on the first listen—it moves you. It moved several judges panels over the course of season, 28 times to be exact, but continue (If it doesn't, then it could easily be argued the music has failed. Some might argue that it's not just the music in drum corps that should move you, but the collective experience of music, drill, and choreography. Fair enough. But nobody would argue that the music has a far greater impact on a show's general effect than either drill or choreography. And drill and choreography don't even come close to having the emotional impact of music.
I watched SCV's show with an open heart RIGHT!!!!!!! and mind. I love SCV! I always have. And I give every show the benefit of the doubt because I want to be moved emotionally. When I watch a drum corps show, I want to have tears in my eyes. I on the other hand, don't want to cry, I already saw COCO from Pixar, but continue! I don't give a flip about how cleanly a difficult move is executed. It's interesting, but that will never move me to tears. (That's a bit like trying to be moved to tears by a brilliantly-designed coffeepot—it ain't gonna happen.) While watching (and listening) to SCV's show, I paid attention. I focused on the melody (or absence of it), the harmonies, the transitions, the tempo changes—I sat back and let it wash over me without judgement. That BM from Julliard is really paying off! but continue!
It left me cold and feeling completely flat. BLESS YOUR HEART, I DIDN'T GET THE SAME REACTION!
After hearing it the first time, I thought "Okay, I'm just not familiar with it." (There's that principle again!) So I watched/listened again. And again. And in what is a testament to the absolute sterility of the show's music, familiarity didn't help at all. Every time I listened to SCV's show, it was just as pointless and unemotional as the previous listening. Here's what I noticed, repeatedly:
• There were no discernable, memorable melodies in the show—and by melodies, I mean a sustained melodic line lasting at least 8 bars (at the same tempo) that very clearly moves from point A to point B in an emotional arc. (Think of just about any Beatles song, any Rodgers & Hammerstein musical, or any Beethoven symphony.) Even after repeated views, I couldn't sing along with 2 bars of this show (and I have a good ear for remembering melodies).
• There was no sense of a grounded tempo anywhere in the show—by this, I mean a chance to get into a groove—to feel the pulse of the music and actually have a chance to tap your foot or rock gently along with it. Tempo changes were so frequent they suggested a kind of musical schizophrenia—arrangements driven entirely by the drill and perceived difficulty.
NOTE: Even some of the most brilliant, avante-garde compositions in music history hold to a steady tempo for at least 16-32 bars—I'm thinking of pieces like Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps or Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra orJohn Cage's Third Construction.
• There was no overall sense of continuity—no feeling of going on a journey from the beginning of the show to the logical conclusion. Despite the flowery descriptions creative staff come up with to justify their shows, SCV's show was quite literally like a long series of 1- or 2-second cuts in a video, each one jarring, seemingly designed to be as abrupt as possible.
This was, plain and simple, an epic musical fail. (And therefore, a fail of a show—in spite of winning.)
Some of you reading this will think I just don't get it. Okay—I'll humor you: I get cubist paintings. I get architecture by Frank Lloyd Wright. And I get music by Steve Reich, Igor Stravinsky, Vincent Persichetti, John Cage, and countless other "challenging" composers. I have a very sophisticated musical ear. My favorite composer is Charles Ives—I've listened to his Concord Sonata hundreds of times—and every time I hear something I didn't hear before. (And trust me—Ives' Concord Sonata is light years ahead of any DCI show in sophistication.)
Some of you will think I'm just an old fart who doesn't understand current music. At this I just shake my head and laugh: have you noticed that people still love The Beatles, Beethoven, Mississippi John Hurt, and Joni Mitchell? This music isn't any less relevant and popular today than it was 25 or 100 years ago.
When it comes to music, you can't get rid of the fundamental elements that make music great without destroying it:
1. It moves you emotionally on the FIRST listen.
2. It is memorable—you can actually hum or sing some of it after one hearing—and ALL of it after several hearings.
3. It has a steady, consistent pulse that you can slip into and feel—in a sustained way—while you listen.SCV's show had NONE of these qualities on the first hearing (or second, third, or fourth). which is why I call it an epic fail. Once again, 28 judges panels over the course of season beg to differ, but continue!
What disturbs me even more than SCV performing this show (who has a long history of connecting emotionally with audiences through great music) is the fact that DCI judges apparently reward this "music" that is devoid of any characteristics of good music. Yes, I know—they're judging more than the music (I already acknowledged this), but the judging community has lost its way. Clearly judges are more focused on difficulty (in the form of chaotic, disjointed shows packed with tempo changes and 32nd-note runs) than they are on emotionally connecting with audiences. It connected with me, the judging community, audiences throughout the summer, but continue!
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In many ways, I guess we've gotten what we deserve YES, Santa Clara Vanguard deserved the championship because they had the best designed show and executed extremely well (remember they WON the MUSIC, Brass and Percussion caption at FINALS and other shows) multiple panels throughout the season!! but continue. It's widely acknowledged that young people today have an average attention span of seconds. Maybe show designers are catering to this? Maybe we—as an American species—have lost the ability to focus on something more than 10 seconds without needing an abrupt change? Listen to pop music today and it's clear that it exists on a level far lower in intelligence than it ever has in the past (just look at all the hit songs about nothing more than partying). Even the Academy Awards have officially decided movie audiences are dumb–they've created a new Oscar for "Best Popular Film." (Because a popular film can't be intelligent or have depth.)If anyone out there disagrees with my premise that SCV's show was a musical fail (and I'm sure hundreds or thousands do), feel free to explain (hopefully in more than single-syllable words) why you think it was great. Tell me how this show moved you emotionally. And as proof, record yourself singing some part of SCV's show and post the MP3 here. :-) (Corps members and staff who performed/arranged the show aren't allowed–your impartial judgement is long gone). My three cents for Scott: become a judge, join a corp staff and fix their inherent faults with music or become a composer, so corps can perform your composition. CONGRATULATIONS for Santa Clara Vanguard, YOU MOVED ME LIKE NO OTHER THIS SEASON, YOUR MUSIC SELECTIONS WHERE SPOT ON, I LOVED THE NUANCE, TEXTURE, DISSONANCE, THE HARMONY and THAT MELLOPHONE LINE WAS DEVINE, THE PIT SUBLIME, THE SOLOS ON POINT, KUDOS TO THE STAFF FOR CHALLENGING ME MUSICALLY! HANDS DOWN A MUSICAL JOURNEY!
Scott
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On 7/31/2018 at 8:39 PM, Woochifer said:
05 -- the last year that BD failed to medal ... IIRC, that was the year when they spent the summer touring Europe. They came back to the states a few weeks before finals.
The show itself was the Dance Derby of the Century ... basically a turn of the century dance marathon, except in reverse. I only saw it on TV. Looked like a fun show, but it was one of those times where I thought BD was being too clever for their own good. And I would imagine that with the international travel, they couldn't refine the show as much as they normally would.
Too clever, no! It wasn't original by any stretch! James Logan World Guard did it in 1999! Maybe that is why they didn't medal!
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2 hours ago, Tony Flores said:
this is where my idea for a compliance officer comes in...and on tour compliance officer, to mitigate any issues before t hey get out of hand
penalties at shows, might motivate corps faster!!
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My two cents: Have two judges, judge the caption awards during finals (guard, brass, percussion)!
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6 hours ago, DCI-86 said:
I meant, are we moving into a new era where SCV becomes the dominate force for a number of years, experimenting more with staging and props, leaving other corps forced to reinvent themselves to keep pace?
i know everyone says BD always wins the season after coming 2nd but will that be the case next year or will they start having to look at how they design their shows to keep pace with SCV?
One win is not a trend, caption award dominance maybe but this is too early to tell.
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I fixed the thread
THE FUTURE IS HERE!
Caption: General Effect (GE)
Number of judges: Two for most of the season, plus a doubled panel of four during Premier Events (e.g. San Antonio, Atlanta, Allentown) and the World Championships.
Points allotted: 40, 20 from each of the two judges. The scores of the two Effect captions are counted for full value. When the panel is doubled, the score of all four judges is divided in half.
Responsibilities: One of the GE judges has a music background and the other has a visual background, but each utilizes the same judging sheet because they are effectively judging the entire show, not just the effect of the music offering or the effect of the visual production. GE judges must be the most experienced, most knowledgeable, and most flexible members of the audience. Plus, they know how to manage numbers in order to give a proper score. The GE judges are doing the romantic job, they’re feeling what the show is offering and responding to what the show is. There are three parts to GE, the intellectual, the aesthetic, and the emotional.The corp that best integrates music, visual, brass, percussion and guard in a coherent fashion that is engaging, designed and executed extremely well WINS!!!
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32 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:
Whenever I see Bluecoats and Crown, I think they are the new Madison and Regiment. If I had been away from the activity since the 90s and watched and someone told me Bluecoats were Madison and Regiment were Crown, I'd believe it. Of course, I'd also have to believe Madison went coed.
WHAT? There is so much wrong with these sentences? I don't know where to begin!
July 2nd - Drums Across the Desert ... Tempe, Arizona
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
I am enjoying Academy show at this point. Lots of potential, musically and visually. Love their uniform and I can see them making it to the top 12 this year! Best of luck Academy!