Box5Opinion
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Posts posted by Box5Opinion
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13 minutes ago, Jeffe77 said:
Analyzing the scores tonight is fascinating. BD is closing in on SCV. They had a good night in Music Analysis 2, placing 1st and SCV placing 3rd and BD is right there percussion. BD also beat out SCV in the visual caption. To me, I think the key factor in SCV getting the title hands down is how the well the Color Guard scores for SCV.
I expect SCV to boost the SCV Guard book by finals with the ending.
BD 4th in Brass, wow.
Cavies guard do that bad tonight? Or judging have a bad night?
It's clear that Crown's visual and GE captions is costing their hopes of a title. I think design not execution as the issue.
Bluecoats Achilles heel is the Music, especially percussion. I love Rarick's percussion book, judges don't seem too keen on it. I find that interesting.
posted from the DrumScorps app
I agree with that assumption!
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12 minutes ago, tedrick said:so this is just not a very good season - show wise --- from a basic entertainment stand point --
simple thumbs up/thumbs down rating of the shows:
1 Santa Clara Vanguard 93.675 (thumbs down)2 Blue Devils 93.250 (thumbs down)3 Bluecoats 92.775 (thumbs down)4 Carolina Crown 91.525 (thumbs down)5 Boston Crusaders 89.950 (thumbs up)6 The Cavaliers 89.925 (thumbs down)7 The Cadets 87.487 (thumbs down)8 Blue Stars 86.250 (thumbs down)9 Blue Knights (thumbs down)I think this has to do with narrative - I'm not connecting with the stories in any of the shows - I'm just not finding a lot to engage/excite me....
So the only show you connected with was about being stranded, lost and needing help?
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6 minutes ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:
yeah. I mean, I understand starting off soft and building to a punch. But the whole fertility-god-worship-circle-woooooh-aaaaaahhhh thing has become a cliche. I long for a corps that will smack me in the face on Beat One.
This guy gets it!
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2 hours ago, BRASSO said:
Blue Knights 2018 may perhaps best illustrates your point for you too, Cappybara . Blue Knights 2018 is one of your very favorite shows in this Drum Corps season. But the judges are giving it comparatively low GE marks at the moment. It is true that what judges reward, is not what fans enjoy. This has been true however for decades in Drum Corps. DCI once ran a poll several years back for the national fans favorite Drum Corps shows of all time. When the list came out, less than half the Corps that were the all time fans favorites won in the season that show was judged by the judges that season. And lest we forget, the judges in DCI in 1993 did not believe the 1993 Star of Indiana Show was the best show in performance that nite. ( did not win the " GE" Caption even ), let alone a fan favorite, then, or years later. I do understand Mike's frustration that shows that fans enjoy ( such as yours ) are not scoring as well as we sometimes wish. But this is not the judging system the Corps themselves have agreed upon re. what judges should be rewarding in shows. And the fans are never included in these negotiations and have no input at all to begin with re. the judging sheets.
I can't like this more! AMEN! PREACH!
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2 hours ago, BRASSO said:
Blue Knights 2018 may perhaps best illustrates your point for you too, Cappybara . Blue Knights 2018 is one of your very favorite shows in this Drum Corps season. But the judges are giving it comparatively low GE marks at the moment. It is true that what judges reward, is not what fans enjoy. This has been true however for decades in Drum Corps. DCI once ran a poll several years back for the national fans favorite Drum Corps shows of all time. When the list came out, less than half the Corps that were the all time fans favorites won in the season that show was judged by the judges that season. And lest we forget, the judges in DCI in 1993 did not believe the 1993 Star of Indiana Show was the best show in performance that nite. ( did not win the " GE" Caption even ), let alone a fan favorite, then, or years later. I do understand Mike's frustration that shows that fans enjoy ( such as yours ) are not scoring as well as we sometimes wish. But this is not the judging system the Corps themselves have agreed upon re. what judges should be rewarding in shows. And the fans are never included in these negotiations and have no input at all to begin with re. the judging sheets.
And yet, everyone talks about this show! That show got robbed!
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13 minutes ago, BRASSO said:
Maybe Corps shouldn't have themes at all then.. saves us the time, trying to figure out what the theme and messaging is. Then we can all go back to enjoying the time when music playing, and marching was all that mattered to both fans and judges alike. On the other hand, if Corps are going to have a theme with messaging, then lets not blame the fans when most don't have a clue what the theme, nor the messaging is with many of these Corps shows now. Its not THEIR fault, and it wasn't the fans who demanded the Corps go with themes in the 1st place.
Responsibilities: One of the GE judges has a music background and the other has a visual background, but each utilizes the same judging sheet because they are effectively judging the entire show, not just the effect of the music offering or the effect of the visual production. GE judges must be the most experienced, most knowledgeable, and most flexible members of the audience. Plus, they know how to manage numbers in order to give a proper score. The GE judges are doing the romantic job, they’re feeling what the show is offering and responding to what the show is. There are three parts to GE, the intellectual, the aesthetic, and the emotional.
I noticed the Blue Devils members don't call themselves corp members, but cast members! The era of Drum Corp/Broadway (storytelling) is here to stay, Cesario era judging is here to stay until someone else comes in and changes it. I point to the Bluecoats who pushed broke out of the mold in 2016, can Santa Clara Vanguard in 2018?
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58 minutes ago, Cappybara said:
I think people put too much weight on themes. If the music is good and the visual matches the mood, who cares? Let the judges worry about all that other stuff
Exactly!
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43 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:
I’d say SCV and Bluecoats are two shows I’d watch over and over again. I’m generally disappointed in GE this year, the show concepts just don’t seem to pay off all that well. That’s sort of the roll of the dice for designers.
I love the idea behind BD, it’s a bold concept, but I don’t think the show pays off as well as their previous few shows and certainly not in the same range as SCV and Bluecoats. I think they made some calculated drill and guard design decisions that sort of strayed from what has worked for them in the past, that SCV and Bluecoats did better, mostly staging and grouping concepts in visual milestones. This show, not unlike Crown, wanders too much.
Bluecoats have changed this activity, no question about that now. Props are becoming central to concepts, and equally for visual and music staging. This is where their design team has excelled professionally, going to their Broadway roots. It badly exposes concepts that have unimportant clutter or worse distracting clutter that hinders drill (please make the tarps go away).
Responsibilities: One of the GE judges has a music background and the other has a visual background, but each utilizes the same judging sheet because they are effectively judging the entire show, not just the effect of the music offering or the effect of the visual production. GE judges must be the most experienced, most knowledgeable, and most flexible members of the audience. Plus, they know how to manage numbers in order to give a proper score. The GE judges are doing the romantic job, they’re feeling what the show is offering and responding to what the show is. There are three parts to GE, the intellectual, the aesthetic, and the emotional.
In my opinion Santa Clara Vanguard has the edge, BOLD and original concept, its abstract - use of limited color and skeletal props and its visually complex (they are marching all over the place), GENIUS design. The Bluecoats are close behind, they are staying true to the show concept, great staging moments, the chairs work -it's brilliant. Both corps had to reinvent themselves for this year. Love the Blue Devils but the other corps are figuring it out and that's ok! Common on Crown, get your act together!
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1 hour ago, queenanne_1536 said:
People put too much achievement in content and achievement scores and gaps. BD goes from 6th in color guard content at San Antonio to 1st in Mesquite to 5th last night. These bounce all over the place from night-to-night.
What bodes the best for Vanguard is they are consistently top 2 across the board, with only an occasional 3. Meanwhile BD has some 3s and 4s, and Bloo has some 3s, 4s, and 5s.
Regardless of placement with the judges, the real story is that this uncharted territory with the Blue Devil guard, they are consistent in achievement but for yikes being called out in content. This does not bode well, overall for the corp. I think the panels have started to see this (3s and 4s) then I could see Bluecoats overtaking them and eventually Crown passing them up. NO BUENO!
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Responsibilities: The Color Guard judge, placed in the stands or press box, is strictly judging the proficiency of each guard, what the guards are achieving and how they are achieving it. To put it another way, what the guards are doing and how well they are doing it. This caption is NOT about the effectiveness of the guard, nor is it about the costumes nor the flags
Common on guard, do more! and clean the F*** out of it! You're the visual BEAST!!!!
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Responsibilities: The Color Guard judge, placed in the stands or press box, is strictly judging the proficiency of each guard, what the guards are achieving and how they are achieving it. To put it another way, what the guards are doing and how well they are doing it. This caption is NOT about the effectiveness of the guard, nor is it about the costumes nor the flags
The Blue Devils guard are being called out for not doing enough.
ouch!
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The ending of the show is AMAZING!!!!! Clean, clean and clean it more. I am seeing max scores across the board during finals! The designers did their homework!
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12 minutes ago, ShortAndFast said:
SCV won 7 of 8 sheets tonight. At finals, they'll likely pull a few 20.0s by virtue of performing last and the judge calling a spread over a strong Bloo/Blue number. I agree with you that a scoring record is pretty tough to see, but I am starting to think a 99 is possible.
Anything is possible. the new ending once its clean and further developed might push certain judges to max their score (content and achievement). I would love to be fly in the wall with the GE judges.
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8 minutes ago, Cappybara said:
Colorguard judges are all over the place regarding BD's guard.
I understand differences in opinion, but their content scores really shouldn't be jumping between 1st and 5th night to night.
I agree, but it might be a judge(s) who haven't seen them perform early in the season, a first read for them.
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15 hours ago, Cappybara said:
I personally think Will Pitts has done great this year in regards to arranging to bring the Phantom sound back. But his arrangements do fall flat or fail to progresss through the course of a movement, and I think the solution is not to scrap Pitts altogether but rather get more experienced people to consult and guide.
Highly agree with this comment! They need more people to guide and consult, keep Will. I think they have plenty of talent in the corp, but need better show design and a stronger visual and musical presence.
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16 hours ago, EricS said:
I've been watching the Samuel Barber Medea show that Star of Indiana did in the early 90s. There is a lot about that show that influenced PR later. What happened the guys that put that show together?
They moved on to other corps!
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2 minutes ago, ThePlanets said:
Things are looking really good for SCV this year.
If Babylon wins the title- how will it be looked back on in Drum Corps history?
Is it a legendary show?
How about we wait until finals night at 11:15pm before we start this thread!
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3 minutes ago, theonlyfizzle said:
Yeah, it surely is and will be.. last year few or more of us did say this year might be SCV year in different ways, and it is ongoing proving to be really so, and I agree woth you on that I don't mind at all. Happy for great organization like scv to be making this year so successful for them. On the other hand I have my gripes that I don't express because of not wanting to come off as the person who is trying to find faults or critizing, or appear to be hating, otherwise I love the show MUSICALLY. BD Is definitely keep the streak going, I solute them.
The season is not over yet! But I would like your thoughts after the season is over! I like to dissect and have an autopsy of the year and just add my two cents to the discussion.
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4 hours ago, MikeRapp said:
Before every season begins they almost always have the most experienced marching members, who come to the organization with clear expectations of what they are going to do and be required to do. Crown, Bluecoats and perhaps Boston have similar advantages, their kids are locked and loaded on Day 1 of spring training.
Cadets for years just “reloaded”with college kids who had already learned all the skills from other corps. That’s a big reason why these corps can do what these corps do year after year.
The result are shows that are as challenging and innovative as one could design, and when they perform their first show, they are already doing a quality of show and level of performance that most of the corps couldn’t execute if they had another two months of spring training. With the exception of the top six, you could take most any other DCI show and Bd would likely perform it 10 points better than the corps that is performing it. Likewise, if a lower level corps had to do the Bluecoats or BD shows, they would be running into each other, be phasing all over the field, and have massive tears.
It most certainly is a self fulfilling prophecy. And of course all DCI judges know this, so scores reflect these realities from Show 1.
Finally, given how scoring is done, and you have seven weeks of shows, it is now functionally impossible to start the season at 10 and finish at 2 or 3.
Agree with everything about this! Right now, it seems, let me quote Scott Chandler, "the Blue Devils have an it factor and are able to pull kids from all over the country". I would put Crown and the Bluecoats in the same category!
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11 hours ago, bluesman said:
I thinks there a several factors in the seemingly lackluster way in which audiences react to shows today compared to those in past decades.
1. The audience has changed. I think we see more musically educated crowds who are less likely to scream and cheer in the middle of shows or at every amazing guard toss. If you look back to the '80s corps could see multiple standing ovations during their shows. In 1982 I marched with Memphis Blues and we had 3 standing ovations during our program. Two of those were in the opener alone. People were more likely to go crazy for a corps they felt a personal connection to. Corps had more local kids participating. Corps today are no more likely to have members from the local community than they are to have members from other regions or even other countries
2. Indianapolis. I'm sorry but going to the same place every year for finals gets monotonous. It's a lovely city, but not exactly known for being on the cutting edge. In the '80s World Championships were held in cities that had little in common. Montreal and Birmingham couldn't have been more different. IMO the most enthusiastic crowds to ever see DCI Championships were in the South(excluding Florida). Atlanta in '84, Jackson in 1993 and Dallas in 1991. I've still never seen a crowd react the way it did during the performances of Phantom Regiment and Cavaliers at the Cotton Bowl that year. It was off the chart insane.
3. Show design is about bringing a concept or story to life and not necessarily about making the crowd throw babies.
4. And finally.... I think we live in a world in which we are continually bombarded with stimulation to the point where it takes so much more to keep us paying attention. I watched people have their heads buried in their mobile devices during corps performances, and that makes me sad.
I couldn't agree more with your thought out rational!
2. Indianapolis - yikes! They need to make finals a roving event.
3. You get it!
Bluesman you are the MAN!!!
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8 hours ago, Bluzes said:
I do not know how to react to this. I was complementing BD for having a wonderful run, not the opposite. The Devils as a whole seemed perfect in everything. Made my mind wander to a statement Rita Moreno made on a dci PBS broadcast. Went something like this "although the guard came across wonderful as an ensemble you could pick them apart individually, thought to myself dci could have brought her back 15 years ago and she would have a different opinion but the Devils that night, just wow!
I agree, the Blue Devils are having an amazing run, they have the most consistent and cohesive staff (some have been there for 30 plus years) and with that, they can be consistent in developing and execution of many amazing shows.
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On 7/22/2018 at 7:20 AM, smr17 said:
I'm new here so I'm just genuinely curious if anyone agrees, but it seems like watching older videos ('00-'12) there are many instances when the corps would have audiences up and cheering maybe even before the last hit. Now I'm usually disappointed by the lack of excitement in audiences and feel like the standing ovations at the end are weaker and come out of obligation. Does anyone agree and maybe know what has changed? Am I crazy? (please feel free to tell me)
Your observation is probably true, 'based on videos ('00-'12) and from my observation of videos/live performances ('74-''18). Drum corp has evolved and so did the judging criteria - we no longer have the tic system, added the pit, amplification, props, trombones, so show designers and corps changed with the times. At times some corps have hit the mark with the judges, while others struggle to adapt to the times and the judges scores reflect that. As for the audience reaction, it all depends on the corp performance (level) and if gets the audience attention.
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7 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:
Then you get unartistic scrugs like me who just go to be entertained.... lol
My point exactly......
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On 7/22/2018 at 7:42 AM, GREENBLUE said:
Last nights crowd was horrible.
Enough said.
Asked the guy sitting next to me during the Top 6 “what more do these people want?” It’s the best and most competitive field we’ve seen in years and people were sitting on their hands. On the 50 and no reaction whatsoever to soooo many moments that should’ve had people cheering and standing.
Sorry Texas, after three shows have not been impressed.
Don't blame the audience, maybe the shows are too artistic and need several viewing to better understand them. The audience is the same but the scoring has changed, can't compare shows from 70's - design + crowd reaction, to 80's - design + crowd reaction, etc..so maybe the audience don't know how to react regardless if it's TOP 6!
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DCI Southeastern Regional - July 28, 2018
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
You are not going to get a BOX1 comment from me, I always give a BOX5 comment! All in or nothing!