kosovobill
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Posts posted by kosovobill
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dude.check the attendance. it started going down long before i left. when attendance goes down your not as succesful as you were . i calls em as i sees em. rielly had the 1st great inovation in 1958 or 59 with the 1st drum solo ever.
Don,
I'm sorry, but the generation and the children created by the WWII experience were the ones who made Drum Corps as you knew it, and changed it into what it is now. Attendance has gone down because Americans as a whole don't get into this kind of entertainment anymore...it isn't anyone's fault.
Drum corps even at its height was a fringe activity when compared to other arts programs in existence at that time. As for your problem with having "recognizable" music played all the time, Drum corps for me was an education that got me to listen to all kinds of music, much of it UNKNOWN to me at the time. How many of you out there eventually went out and got recordings of original performances of music after hearing it played by a corps? Thousands of us, I'm sure. How many more millions of times do we have to listen to "sing, sing, sing" or "malaga" to appease you?
As for "cleanliness" and "quality", I'm sorry, but the corps we have today, both all-age and junior can play and march circles around anything that was marching in your "day". I know a lot of folks don't really like to talk about older corps this way, but its the truth, whether you like it or not.
Don, this has gotten to be a yearly whine on your part, and despite all of it, Drum Corps(and the rest of the world) isn't going to change for you. Why cant you move on?
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Please forgive me, I am not on here very often, and I do not know of any recent posts about the Brigs. I check their website, but it is a shell of a site at this point.
Anyone know if they are planning a comeback? 2011? 2012?
Thanks
...I hope so!
I can't speak for the corps, but history tells us that any announcements wont be coming forth until at least October--I hope they come back, too!
Bill
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Not to mention the elimination of American Legion, the VFW and all the CYO corps.....oh wait a minute, maybe DCI did have something to do with that......hmmmmm?????
The answer to that lies in your own membership, economic, and political power. The Legion used to be a great influence in this country many years ago, but many people, to include a good many veterans since WWII do not find it very relevant any more, that's just the plain simple truth; again its the demographic change in this country as I mentioned. The old gray goose just ain't what she used to be....Now lets get back on topic, eh?
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i had to jump in here. since 1972 you had many jr. corps go under. they were small church sponserd corps . in ny, nj, pa mass and so on there were thousands of jr corps. they are all dead & gone now. and sr corps is losing great corps all the time. so don't tell me the activity is fine. it's not. it's getting smaller. it's all about mega corps with lots of money. i know things will evolve as they always have but i have to tell you as they have we have lost many coprs along the way. and let's not forget the crowds that used to come out to DCA show's for instance. bridgeport....14,000 people. dream an easy 20,000. tournament of drums 12,000-22,000, baltimore 18,000......DCA in rochester 18,000-22,000. is it growing or losing?we all need a reality check here. i know all the apoligist's will jump all over me but these are facts. you can either except the truth or live in a dream . it's your choice. these are the facts and they can't be ignored. the new breed will do as they must but don't be surprised if the numbers continue to drop. it's very sad. prior to 72 was the glory days of drum corps and that is a fact. by 1975 it was starting to wane & wax. tell me how many corps are there now and how big are the crowds? just think about it before you all jump all over me.
Don,
You really need to examine ALL the evidence before you blame DCI for the demise of drum corps. Have you considered the demographics of the population at that time? In the 50s and 60s you had a record amount of people available to march both in senior and junior corps because of WWII and the resulting economic and population boom. Since then most of the WWII generation has passed away, and the babyboomers have not produced as many children. Not as many of the babyboomers march now in All-Age because money, status, power seems to be more important than marching in a drum corps. Those are just the facts..DCI didnt cause any of those things to happen... I am not a DCI lover, but to lay all of this at their feet is just ridiculous....
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It will happen, sooner or later.
Eventually the decisions will be made by those for whom it's never been an issue, because amps have been a part of every other circuit/activity they've ever performed in. It will simply be a non-issue.
The cost argument is a valid one, but it didn't stop grounding the pit, 2 and then 3 valve horns, Bbs, or any of the other changes that cost money and inevitably benefited those who were in a position to adapt sooner/more fully.
Amen.
Old guys, better grab your pacemakers, because this will happen as these performers will get older and want them, since they used them when they were in Jr corps. Its not the end of the world, really...
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The world has changed considerably in the last twenty years. Change is inevitable, irreversable, and vital.
Nobody likes change. We like our "comfort zone" undisturbed. These two statements are in conflict.
It is THIS conflict that I see as the core of the arguement. I struggle with the changes taking place
within the ENTIRE drumcorps activity. At some point in the future, we will hand over the activity to a new
generation of participants. They will define success in their own way, with the "tools" they are comfortable and
familiar with. THAT'S life.
Another generation of performers HAS ALREADY taken over drum corps, and is doing their thing; evolving the activity. It is only cantankerous old people in the audience who think they are somehow in control who are whining about all of this. History tells us that tradition is not the norm; change is.... Does this mean I dig amps? No, not really, but I will say that Ive seen some really creative things done with them, and others really stupid, such as an unnamed corps' rock band... Some of you older guys' concept of what drum corps ought to be (post WWII) is really a drastic change over what it was before the war; so in fact your "tradition" is in fact yet another CHANGE.
We really need to get over ourselves and let these kids have fun and perform, just as we did...
Bill
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Again... I am not worried about who is finished first, I simply said I find it odd. This is whats wrong with the internet... emotions and facial expresions do not come across at all. It was simply a curiosity comment, not ment to bash anybody in any way.
I think you should consider what is considered normal for this time of year--during my time with the Brigs, we didnt "complete" the show until about the middle of June, and it didnt seem to get in our way of winning--Bucs I am sure as well are being meticulous as always, and it sure doesn't get in their way of winning, either. What is so odd?
Bill
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I think this is great, but PLEASE, don't be another Gasperilla! Wait...if not for them, there would be NO Sun Devils....In all seriousness though, if this is true, this is a great thing...
Bill
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Nothin' like new charts from Uncle Wayne!!!
Bill
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MCL.....but I guess you just meant Finalist Corps.
I loved your show!... it should have been you , instead of Corpsvets---next year for sure!
Bill
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My hat is off to the Blue Crew. They broke three important records last Sunday. Five Championships in a row (DCA era), 47 wins in a row, and 99.025 highest finals score ever in DCA.
So, how many consecutive wins will the Buccaneers tally before they score a second place? And.....who do you think will be the next corps to best them on the field of competition?
My guess...54 wins. Either Hurricanes or Cabs will end the fabulous streak.
The winner will be the one that gets their act together the best in the winter--hands down Buccs are currently the best at this. Another part of their success comes from a locally derived and well rooted support structure, which gives the corps a consistent amount of funding, and member support--thats a formula for success if there ever was one..
Bill
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Thanks to all for a great performance, and I think some of us in the audience rediscovered lust...
Bill
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Congratulations! I loved your attitude in both Minicorps and on the field! Me and the wife were blown away by your energy!!! All the best for next year!
Bill
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Did the CT Hurricanes get the old shafting at DCA? It seems like a couple of judges had it in for them during finals.
My question isn't meant to take away anything from the other corps who competed in Rochester. Congratulations to the top three!
I'm curious about people's opinions on this subject.
I think some of the other folks here got it right--content is key; the demand on the Hurcs hornline was not as great as the corps that beat them. My general impression, and I was at prelims and finals, was that Hurcs this year was a splendid colorguard accompanied by horns and drums.
Bill
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you should provide proof. it makes you look bad to through out things that you don't prove. this is hear say. and most of these people know me and not you. we all go back many years. but ah yes you don't like us old people as you have stated.
why dont you? its in your emails if its so important to you---cut and paste. And everyone should know that "the Don" has also blocked me from pm'ing him; that he way he got the last word....
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First of all, "The Don" and I, have beern winning championships since before you started and we have a little
more experience at it. As for your comment about "Slotting"; That was invented before you were born and has
many different meanings to many people. The Don's opinions ( as do mine) come from a Love of the sport we
grew up with and the dissapointment in its changes. We are intitled to our opinion which in his case, has been
nothing more than honorable. I've never heard him use foul language on this website and i'm sure if he even
attempted it, the response would be deleted by the administrator. You are very confused.
Actually, it was in pm; it would have been hilarious for everyone to see what he is capable of.
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hi dave. i completly agree with all that you said. a certain person who i will not name but you can check back about a week slammed me for saying this. he accused me of saying DCA is corrupt which i never said. but yes when there are slots it's very easy to judge. if it were the old way it would be on the merits of the current week. bravo dave. i'm with ya.
What just happened is the SEEDING of the corps into the order of appearance in prelims. SLOTTING, which is the term you used, is the intentional placement of corps in a contest which is predetermined before anyone performs, which is corrupt. Since the last time you spoke with me you told me to "eat you" and used other profanity, I'll just let this one go...
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Yeah, it is interesting that CV could be beating the Brigs and Bush early in the season (maybe they just came out really clean), and now they are getting 7 pointed by a group that they originally beat by 5... not sure if that makes a lot of sense. I agree about the comment that the spreads are based off the first corps out. Nothing personal against them, but when you are Open Class corps going on after last year's 22nd place group, it seems like over kill if you beat them by 30 points (though 27 isn't much better).
We shall see. Hopefully the judges get it right on Prelims, otherwise, there may be a VERY good group sitting out of Finals. Personally, I thought MCL could have made finals last year. This year they are better... and so are the other southern groups. So where do they belong?
Side note - this is why it is important for southern corps to travel north, or find a way to make shows more appealing to northern corps to travel. They need those direct comparisons.
It is obvious that both Brigs and Bush had very disappointing early seasons, but now have their act together--tonight they have switched places yet again in the standings, this one is really too close to call. I am sure the southern corps will tighten up with the northern corps once everyone is together.
Bill
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for me whats killing me is WHERE are the Renegades going to figure into this? remember, they were well into the 80s over a month ago....
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My humble thoughts, I've seen the top 5.
1-Bucs
2-Minnesota
3-Hurcs
4-Cabs
5-Empire
The closest finals ever... tenths separating the top 3 and the a point drop to 4-5.
Awesome shows, awesome groups, fun times in DCA!
Amen, its gonna be close!
Bill
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I have to disagree with you on this one. Two shows in MN, two scores, and PATRICKS!
Well worth the trip!
It will sure be good to see where the Renegades are in the standings... could be some real shaking going on after this weekend!
Bill
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amen. he just riled me up.
Im sorry, but it was YOU that claimed that the corps are slotted, insinuating DCA is corrupt, and yes it does matter, just ask any one who does march; maybe you don't consider that, since as you claim, you haven't marched a show in 30 years. Just because you are old does not give you a free pass to spout anything you want...
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i'm not gonna drink your koolaid. after DCA check the final standings against what was posted today and you will see very minor changes. what your talking about happened in different years NOT all in the same year. and last year MBI was scoring where they place in the few shows they had. check it out. i hate koolaid. live your dream if you like. i did it to for a few years. oh and just because i don't agree with you i don't have sour grapes. i haven't competed in almost 30 years. so i don't own a whinery. last week after not been to a show in 28 years and before the show wrote down my predictions after copying the standings i predicted the entire show correctly. before the show. real sour grapes there.
1. I dont compete anymore, so you already have that part wrong... but there's more.
2. There will be major changes in prelims and finals, as Renegades will likely make top 6; the competition between Empire, Hurcs, Cabs, and MBI is far from over; one of them may very well overtake Bucs; 9th and 10th place are far from "slotted" spots as Kilts, CorpsVets, MCL, and Alliance within a point and a half of each other..and I dont think they agree with you, either.
3. MBI went from 4th in prelims to 2nd last year; how is this slotting?
4. As your prediction at the show, you've been on here for years, anyone could have done what you did by just by looking at the stats--and you could have never been to a show. Ever. Some authority you are.
5. Slotting does not exist, and is held only in the hearts of those that always see conspiracy...Im sorry we don't have the unqualified and corrupt judges that existed in the 1950s and 60s anymore (VFW, Legion, etc); I really don't think the member corps at DCA would tolerate it, so what you are talking about here is wishful thinking. Remember, DCA is RUN by the member corps! So whos the one dreaming?
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Doesn't really matter with 2 weeks left both these corps will be fighting for 7 th and 8th. My final rankings are
Bucs(drums,horns,vis)
Hurcs (guard)
Minn. Brass(drum major)
Statesmen(5th horns)
Cabs(4th horns)
Renegades(6th across the board except drums 8th)
Bush(6th drums)
brigs(horns 10)(drums tie for 7th)
Alliance(7th drums)
Corps vets(8th guard)
my predictions for corps placement has been 98% for the past 7 years good luck to all and prove me wrong.Captions were an added bonus this year.
Maybe averaged over 7 years, but what about your prediction of "the death of a giant"? If so, your prediction would be off by at least 10 percent this year alone!
Official Announcement about the 2012 Season - The Brigadiers
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
Posted
Its a shame that things sometimes get messy, but I have to side with Scott on this one--better to do this right than to lose it all just to come back for one season. As with a lot of us, we all would love to see the corps come back, but we gotta be smart about this...I just hope that there aren't too many hurt feelings over this mess, those who were "terminated" may someday see the wisdom of the board's decision to hold back, and choose not to hold it against the corps...