danguernsey
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Posts posted by danguernsey
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Madison's 70's and early 80's uniforms were nicknamed the Janitor's uniforms. I think they actually purchased the pants and shirts from a Uniform company catering to Janitors. Very funny. Who would have thought a janitors uniform would have looked so good on a football field.
I'm not sure about the early 80s, but in the 70s the Scout's uniforms were authentic Explorer Scout uniforms, purchased from BSA. The shirts and pants came with the the old envelop caps, trimmed in dark
redish-brown. "Explorer" was emblazoned in redish-brown above the left shirt pocket. BTW, my all-time favortie Scout uni is 1981-1982--white ties and citation cords. That uni screams Scouts!
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I was 18 in 1974 in a perfectly good situation with the Scouts. If the Scouts hadn't been around in '74, I would have liked to march with either Kingsmen or SCV--a coin toss.
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1974 DCI Finals.
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Madison Scouts, 1970
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Didn't Madison do the 'Alice in Wonderland" show at VFW with no costumes or props? Must have been bizarre to see....
Jim,
Yes, that is correct: we had to discard our costumes at VFW Nationals. I was in the guard in '71 (one of the 7 dwarfs, in fact!).
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Madison Scouts, 1976, AIO Butler Pa.
Madison Scouts, AIO, 1976, Butler, Pa.
Actually, the Scouts pics are 1975 Butler.
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Turnover was pretty much the story in '76--both in membership and staff/admin. Not sure what was going on financially. I got recruited to help out with percussion for a few months in the spring. Some other former Kilties came in later in the year to instruct and really helped make the product semi-respectable by DCI in Philly.
I believe the former DM from Kilties was Eric Whitemore (sp?). When the Kilties made their resurgence in '77, at least one of those '76 Scouts that had been Kilties previously came back to wear plaid one more time.
Yes, Eric Whitemore, the Kilts' DM in '75 and tymp player in '74, played 32" tymp in the '76 Scouts. Eric was a riot! Funny guy. Dino Riccio (sp?), the Kilts' snare section leader in '74-'75, played snare in the '76 Scouts. We also had Jarel Nakamura (sp?), who played tenors in the '75 Kilts, and played tenors as a section mate with me in the '76 Scouts. Jarel had long jet-black hair that went down to his asss. He tucked it in under the forest green shirt.
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I didn’t know about Leckrone arranging the horn book at first. He never mentioned it when I was in the Badger Band. I really enjoyed marching for him at the UW, but I would not have thought of him as a drum corps arranger in the mid 70’s. His sound was very different than traditional drum corps. I know he is a well respected writer and arranger, but I remember his style being different than what the Scouts sound was at the time.
Roark,
Leckrone may have not been "hired" in the strict sense, but the staff (Fred?) early on had at least approached Leckrone about arranging for the Scouts. It may not have gone much beyond that, but its hard to grasp why Leckrone was even considered over Baumgardt. It boggles the mind.
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Dave Richards was judging that year. He was the judge who did Brass GE at Finals (referred to in above post).
Actually, Mike Lecrone (sp?) from the UW marching band was initially hired to arrange the horn book. I never understood why the staff went with an unproven arranger instead of sticking with arguably the best horn arranger in drum corps at that time: Ray Baumgardt. Ray eventually did the horn book for the disco show, including the unnamed concert piece. He also did an original concert piece in 1971 (tune just prior to the Alice stuff). If I recall, Dave Richards served as a horn consultant of some kind during the winter of '75-'76.
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My twenty seven cents ....
The fact that Madison changed virtually their entire show on the fly is also remarkable, given that they almost repeated. Anyone who marched Madison that year care to comment? You must have rehearsed 24/7.
This story has been told before, but by mid-June it was painfully evident that we had a real lemon on our hands--the "disco" show--that needed to be discarded ASAP. However, we couldn't back out of our 3-week western tour, which began around June 21: we took the disco show on the road, including our new vestalite "jelly bean" drums. While we were in California (around June 30), the corps was offically told that the disco show was to be scrapped. For the remainder of the western tour, we learned the music to "1975 Redux" by day on the bus or during daytime practices, while performing the disco show at night. We got back to Madison around July 10 and pulled out of all our mid-season shows, which were were small local shows. We went into a 2-week marathon camp in which we learned the new drill and new music to "Stars and Stripes" and "Ease on Down the Road" drum solo. If I recall, we came out with the new show at Stillwater, MN around July 31/August 1. Luckily, we were able to salvage second place at DCI. Yet, we paid a high price in that many vets didn't return in 1977.
We had the performers to repeat, but the corps didn't have its act together prorgam wise. It was a frustrating season to say the least.
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I hope they cool the uniform changes for a bit. A friends son has marched Madison the past four years and they have worn a different uniform every year.
Same here. I hope they stick with this uniform. I think its the best uni they've had since 1982. I never liked white pants. Black better reflects the Scout image.
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I'm kind of curious, let's see where this takes us, but I'm curious as to what arts and what not you all support. I've seen a lot of really irreverent comments made on this board, here are some examples.
"Drum corps is becoming like the Opera"
"I don't pay to see ballet froo froo"
Etc etc, things like this, and comments like this just strike me and incredibly ignorant. Or am I just crazy because I happen to like ballet, opera, theatre, musical theatre and other things. I mean, certainly these venues have larger, more diverse and less fickle/conservative audiences than drum corps does, and they make a lot more money (of course it's about the passion and the art first, but you'd be ####### me if you didn't admit that The Met or whatever other opera house doesn't sell out and doesn't please its patrons). Why is it that drum corps audiences are so conservative, what is this fear of things that are different? Note: I didn't say things that were of sub par quality and different, but good high quality different things. Why is there fear? What is wrong with theatre and the opera and ballet, it is art that has stood the test of time and continue to find room in societies, West and East. It wouldn't hurt some of you to go see a play or something, who knows, maybe you'd like it ;-). God knows more like them than drum corps (not that I don't love me some drum corps).
Jeterbeater,
FWIW, my sense is that people aren't criticizing opera, ballet, theater, or symphonic music per se, but rather how those art forms have been translated into the drum corps idiom. The debates here seem to boil down to questions about arranging and M&M styles--i.e., lack of melodic continuity, or recognizable music, screen saver lines on a football field, etc. Yet, even defining what constitutes "the drum corps idiom" these days is problematic as evidenced by several threads on DCP dealing with topics like "is drum corps marching band?" Implicit in such questions is a meta question of "what IS drum corps?" I get the sense that some people here aren't so much afraid of "innovation," as they are concerned about aesthetic quality in drum corps--i.e., the degradation of BOTH fine art and drum corps. Shows that are overly hybridic in their "borrowings" from theater/literature (narration), ballet, dance, etc. have the danger of diluting, or confounding, the content of drum corps shows. Its like trying to be everything (a pastiche of drum corps, theater, ballet, art . . .) without having to be anything in particular. It seems that such pastiche has lead to the current identity crisis of defining "what is drum corps?" As an art history educator and lover of classical music and theater, I for one would rather spend my $$ attending performances put on by world class PROFESSIONALS, rather than on pretentious art amateurs in drum corps. Today's drum corps shows can't hold a candel to the Met, or Chicago symphony.
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I think they did it in '73 and '74. I remember them putting a new wrinkle in the part where they played on their sticks from '73 to '74. I never got to see them in '75 because we were usually last on all year. They also upgraded some of YPG from '73 to '74. Instead of holding their left stick against their chest in the drum to drum part, the snares put their left arm up on the right shoulder of the person next to them and sort of casually leaned on them. Very cool.
I still think that the 1974 SCV show is one of the best of all time.
SCV played the "clock" solo in 1972 (first drum solo) and 1975 (second drum solo). They did YPG solo in '73 and '74.
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Give me a set of those North tenors and I am in. If Dan Guersney joins me - we have two smoking tenors !!!!
What is our show ? I wanna play some old school, park and blow, kick butt music !!!!
North tenors! You have to include Rich Kleinman on this as well. Given how heavy those drums were plus having recently done the Scouts reunion corps, lots of Advil and a back support would be required for this 52-year old. Chops are way down--nothing like 30+ years ago. It would be cool playing with you nonetheless. Yea baby, park and blow!!!
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Hey, Dan,
Thanks, again, for the extra info and, ...a bit late...for the phenomenal show in Ithaca (75?)
Best,
SKY
Sky,
Ithaca was '74. I was only one guy among 128 members doing their best to entertain the crowd and bring home a championship. Unfortunately, we came up short that night. I'm glad you liked the show.
You, O.C., and ironlips appear to have been invloved, or have close ties to those who did particpate, in the JFK funeral. I think I can speak for the other DCP posters on this thread (most of us were kids in 1963!) by passing on our regards to the drum corps/pipe band members who participated.
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Hey Dan,
Thanks - VERY MUCH - for starting the topic and also for the later link.
I checked that one out and found a few seconds of the USAF Pipe Band in part 3, playing - of all things - Mist Covered Mountains!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6r9aKGmAQ4...feature=related
The band wore several uniforms, including dress blues, formal mess dress and the full traditional uniform. The Mitchell tartan honored Billy Mitchell, father of the AF, was approved in Scotland for use only by the USAF band. I've sent the link on to some of those that were there.
Best,
SKY
Sky,
Your welcome. Thanks for the additonal info. I came across an internet source, "The 11th Wing and the Kennedy Funeral," that goes into great detail on the various people involved the corps and pipe band, including Rodney Goodheart. You can find it at, www.jvmusic.net/11thWingKennedyFuneral.html
All the Best,
Dan
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Ah the consipracy pundits. I was one for years until I really read the reports, worked at the Kennedy Library, and watched several documentaries and was finally convinced that Oswald acted alone. That the sad truth is it is all possible, (go to Dealy plaza and see how close the window is to the local and it is a set up that most deer hunters pray for).
I agree as well--Oswald alone. In his book, "Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assassination of JFK" (2003), Gerald Posner convincingly shows that Oswald was the lone gunman, based on close analysis of the Zapruder film (seating positions, body angles of JFK and Connley) and the so-called "magic bullet." Posner was interviewed for the program that used computer analysis that you mentioned. In addition to demonstrating that there was nothing "mysterious" about Oswald's background and motivation, Posner also exposes the hypocrisy of Jim Garrison and the "conspiracy industry." He brings common sense and sound reasoning to his study, penetrating through the superstitious fog. Its is a MUST read for those interested in the JFK assassination.
Ok, back on topic.
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Gosh, this is an amazing picture.
And the video was hard to watch. I was only 5 at the time, so I have just vague memories of seeing the funeral coverage on TV. Yet it still breaks my heart, I guess because the raw emotions are captured so vividly.
I was 7 at the time. About all I remember was watching the funeral on our old B&W Zenith TV, crouched on the living room floor.
Its interesting how a simple rudimental cadence conveys deep emotional content, as noted by Markdewine's "step-mother telling [him] to stop [playing it], because hearing it made her sad." The old saying "less is more" applies in this case. The apt statements from LancerLegend and Puppet on drum corps comradery points to the civic, or communal, role that drum corps had "back in the day," locally and nationally. I found it fascinating that one of the prominent drum judges from the 70s, as well as the other rudi drummers mentioned, participated in a historic event of national proportions. Its pretty humbling.
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As sort of a side note to this.
In 1992 I was recording some new music for a show called "The American Adventure" that currently plays in the American Pavilion at Epcot Center in Florida. There is a segment in the film that uses about 20 seconds of footage from this funeral procession. As we were doing overdubs the composer realized that he had not written a part for the drums in the procession. I mentioned that I had some experience playing rudimental snare and he agreed to let me play. I borrowed an old wooden marching snare drum and brought it in the next day. We overdubbed the part several times each time re-tuning the drum slightly to create a fuller sound. At the end of the day we had our funeral drums recorded. I don't how close it was to the actual part but I think it conveyed the idea of a funeral cadence quite well.
Greg,
FWIW, here is a link of the JFK funeral on Youtube including cadence and clip of the drumline: www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-n1s1aRGcA&feature=related.
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I recently came across this historical tid bit pertaining to drum corps and the JFK funeral on Nov. 24, 1963:
"Accompanying the casket as it moved on a caisson from the White House to the Capitol on Sunday was a joint service drum corps. In the eighteen-man corps were members of The USAF Band's Drum and Bugle Corps, Sergeants Harold Ludwig and Rodney Goodheart, and Airmen Bill Mojica and Jim Dinkins. To this day the sound of their drums playing the somber muffled beat is still etched in many memories."
I assume the Rodney Goodheart playing in the JFK funeral procession was also the famous DCI drum judge from the 1970s. If so, I never knew that he participated in one of most somber events in American history.
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So, somewhat out of spite, somewhat out of fear, and somewhat out of "Anything you can do we can do better!" we decided to go all out in 1971 and win with execution AND much more GE. Unfortunately, we had a subpar hornline and a drill that was not complex enough behind all the GE "antics" that we had in the show in 1971. So, after winning the first half of the season, our lack of horns and lack of drill complexity started to get noticed by the judges and we dropped off the map.
The next year we over-reacted again and went to a mid-60s traditional show (and had a lot of staff turnover and rookies) and got dumped even further. Add to all that the fact that we weren't yet a touring corps and by 1973 we were out of finals. Most of it was our own fault, truth be told.
Madison figured out the new reality sooner than we did with their stellar rise to power in 1973. We didn't figure it out until 1976 (somewhat) and then lost it again until the mid-80s. Only the strength of our management and alumni allowed us to survive beyond where a lot of previously dominant corps from the 60s did (Blessed Sac, Blue Rock, St. Joe's, Des Plaines, Kilts, etc.). God rest their souls . . .
It appears that the Scouts and Cavaliers in 1971 and 1972 paralled each other. The Scouts' '71 Alice show built on the GE "antics" of the 1970 show (second half of the show). In '71, we, like the Cavaliers, went "all out" on the GE side, and paid the price for it at VFW (10th place). In 1972, the Scouts, like the Cavaliers, went back to a traditional 1960s-type show. Interestingly, rather then the hodge-podge tune selections of the 60s, the Scouts presented a thematic show organized around various war tunes and flags from the Revolutionary War to World War II. It was basically a hybrid of the "old" 60s militarism and the "new" thematic shows of the early 70s. Paul's statement that "Madison figured out the new reality sooner than we [Cavaliers] did with their stallar rise to power in '73" points to the musical side of the Scouts' hornlines--the "Madison sound" of 1970-1975. Drums and M&M served the hornline during those years. Jeff Yeager refered to the growth of musicality in the early 70s. Interestingly, both the Scouts' and Argonne's hornlines received perfect 5.00 in Musical Analysis (content) in 1971 and 1972. During this period, SCV changed the musical face of percussion. 1971 was indeed a crucial turning point.
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First in a uniform - Winter concert, December 1969--Madison Jr. Scouts
First competition in drum corps uniform - c. June 15, 1970, VFW State Championships, Green Bay, WI--Madison Jr. Scouts
Last competition in drum corps uniform - c. August 30, 1977, Middleton, WI--Madison Scouts
Last time in corps uniform - August 2006, DCI Semi-Finals, Madison, WI--Madison Scouts Alumni Reunion Project
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Puppet,
FWIW, here is a current pic of the Marco Polo Resort Hotel. Its in Sunny Isles Beach in North Miami, fairly close to where I live.
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Here ya go Geno!
Geno,
Actually, the '78 snare drummers who marched snare in the '06 Alumni Corps are from left to right:
#3-Tracy Newnam, 1977-early 1980s (?)
#6-Craig Matthews, 1971-1978
#8-Ken Schneider, 1978
#10-Dennis Linley, 1976-early 1980s (?)
#11-Tim Hummel, 1978-early 1980s (?)
some old corps photos
in Historical Junior Corps Discussions
Posted
1974 Madison Scouts, company front during "Slaughter on 10th Ave." DCI Prelims, Ithaca, NY