Canadacorps
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Posts posted by Canadacorps
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We're working on it, Thanks!
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East Coast Jazz!!? Please tell me that this is the start of something new for them.. I'd love to see them back in action!
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I respect all who agree and disagree with my statements. I know the OC Corps r busy doing other things then worrying about their fan base. That is why my statements where not about the Corps themselves. It's the people who run the OC Div. Its so easy to say I disagree and have nothing to back up why one disagrees. I will make it easy on those who disagree with my disrespect statement. Provide a link on here and proof of anything the OC Div. leaders have done to engage the OC legacy fan base. Once that data is provided and valid in this thread I will do a mea culpa.
Dean
Whom do you think the 'OC Leaders' are?
The OC Directors and an OC Coordinator are all we have.
I think we are all a bit lost on what your point is, so it would probably be easier for you to prove your point that to ask everyone who don't understand where you are coming from to prove theirs.
I agree with Chris. I'm not trying to 'gang'-up on you Dean, but the leaders of the OC Division are not some big, corporate board - meeting in a high-rise tower board room somewhere, with a massive budget to work with. "OC Div. leaders" ARE the Corps Directors themselves, and they work within the budgets of each of their individual organizations, which we have already established are fairly limited.
Again - would you rather they spend their energies and budgets reaching out to the Legacy fans? Or have them use their budgets and energy ensuring there is a quality experience for their kids, and through the health of their respective organizations, continue to offer an OC division today, tomorrow and into the future?
Maybe this is a better question - In what ways do you think the OC Division has failed in reaching out to Legacy fans?..., and what would you see them do instead?
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It's a wonderful concept. But it's a bit utopian at this point. Outside of California and perhaps the Midwest, there really are no regions capable of the regional approach. What sort of region would Cadets, Crown and Crusaders have? What about Crossmen? Cascades? (Is it a "C" thing?) The regions have gone the way of the communities that once spawned corps. Neither are coming back any time soon.
HH
This is where groups like DCNA, and the SDCA have their place - a starting ground where newly "spawned" corps can gain their footing, collaborate with others who are building, support and encourage each other, share knowledge and experience, and begin creating more stable corps for this activity who will eventually take the field. As these new corps grow, they can join the shows in their area/help create new ones.
In short - are we able to go back to a TRULY regional approach tomorrow? No, - but Maybe West, Midwest/Central and East for now, with Corps who can afford it crossing over occasionally to make appearances. More Corps = More opportunities for everyone, and then we can expand into a fully regional approach, with people going to the "World"
championships if and when they can afford it. This would give the big boys a chance to mix it up ocassionally with Corps they don't see everyday on the tour, and give the audiences a (potentially) different experience each year at Championships. -
There is still a small bit of hope for Heritage/Court of Honor reforming.
GREAT! Court of Honor was an excellent Corps, I'd love to see them re-form.
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the disrespect that the powers that b in the OC Div.show the the OC legacy fans, is way worst then what is happening in the WC Div. At least they r trying. the OC Div. could care less about us.
Dean
I honestly do not see how you can come up with the conclusion that OC corps do not care about Legacy fans. Of course they do.
The hard truth is, Many OC Corps are busy trying to ensure their SURVIVAL, so they are focusing most of their effort there. You will have no OC Corps to be a fan of, if they do not focus the Lion's share of their attention on the growth and health of their own organizations.
Many OC Corps operate on a 100,000 or less operating budget (and even some presently active touring OC corps on much, MUCH less). They also have vastly less of the most important resource: PEOPLE. (think: Volunteers. Afterall, Charity Golf Tournaments, Poker Tourny's, Silent Auctions don't run themselves, Grants don't write themselves, and the bigger the Corps, the more parents you have to help. Volunteers are the essential lifeblood from which all good, healthy non-profit organizations come.)
(ASIDE:) How do these OC Corps grow? By ensuring they focus all their attention on creating a FABULOUS member experience. Happy members stay in the Corps, and bring their FRIENDS! as the corps grows, so does the level of support. It's all connected, but back to my original line of thinking:
Now, compare the OC Budgets to the operating budget of some of the WC corps. - Some have as much as up to 5 million per annum to work with, (I kid you NOT) Big Corporate Sponsors, Huge fan bases, huge support teams, Merch sales, advertising support, appearance fees, enough funding to spawn companies dedicated to earning money for their Corps' continued operations, etc. etc. They are models of success.
But with that kind of contrast - suddenly, you can see why there isn't a nationwide movement of OC Corps trying to win back the Legacy fans. They are busy focusing on operations, and trying to ensure that there IS an OC here to serve the kids we care so much about. It's about the KIDS.
OC loves and values their fans too, and realize they are important, but many of these corps play to small crowds day-in and day-out, and aren't reliant on the merch sales, DVD sales, crowd attendances and appearance fees to make the clock tick in the same way that the WC corps are. They are simply trying to ensure that their valuable segment of the activity is here to continue enriching the lives of young people throughout North America for years to come.
It's a question of economics, really.
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Rather than challenges, I want to offer what I think, in my opinion would be the start of a possible solution:
In my (flawed, I'm sure) opinion, the best way forward is to go back to a regional model, find ways to make the shows entertaining and accessible but still creative and satisfying to the designers, approach and engage the legacy fans, stop with the "best of the best of the best" approach, and return to the primary focus of serving the kids and growing the activity. Would this solve all problems or be an easy answer? No. but I think it's a step in the right direction, after all.
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LETS support the corps that are still running here in CANADA and build from there
I agree with Mark, In the West - there's a new Corps forming in Edmonton. :AHEM:
. I also hear rumor that a Edm. Strutters/Santa Clara Vanguard Alumni might be starting something up in B.C.... -
We're looking forward to sharing some good news from Edmonton with the Drum Corps community very soon!
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Wishing you all the best. Upped my pledge to 100+. Who's going to step up to the plate and match it?
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We are going to be evaluated, on site, for exhibition, as per DCI's rules regarding exhibition performances. It's basically the same as competitive evaluation, except for lowered expectations for what's in the treasury (we're not pumping out Open or World Class cash flow figures). We're hoping for two shows in DCI this year, although DCI's rules regarding the number of exhibition shows is strict too. Part of the reason why we're focusing on parades this year is to build some war coin for our 2012 regional program. We're also looking to be a part of DCNA, and if it is up and running by this year, we will definitely be there. We should be able to be fully competitive and championships ready by 2015, although problems do arise...
Such is the unpredictable nature of building any new business.
I can tell you right now, we're planning on building a capital investment program that would pay us out dividends (some blue chip stock, and cont bonds), and then later moving into more aggressive day trading and the penny stock market. All of that is being built into our fund raising program.
We'll get there, because I'm not giving it up. Ever.
I'm stubborn like that.
And it's that dedication and tenacity that will see you through. All else aside, it takes a REALLY hard head to stick with it. Kudos, and all the best to your new organization! - @ the topic, I agree. Sounds like the schedule is just not completed yet.
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Thank you Steve!
If you need anything, just give me a call.
Thanks, will do :) All the best at your first rehearsal. it looks like you're off to a great start!
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Thanks for the "heads" up, James.
Best wishes to you and your new organization.
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Drum corps belongs to the marchers and the people who pay to watch them. Not to DCI. Not to the directors of the DCI corps. And certainly not to a cabal within DCI.
There are always going to be less profitable corps within DCI. Or any organization following from DCI. The test of leadership is that they do their best to keep the activity going. Not the individual corps.
The Corps ARE what comprises DCI.
I also understand the responsibilities of these directors to their organizations, in ensuring they continue.
However, I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. Any plan for the future should adequately address the future and sustainability of the activity, not attempt to simply cement the top tier position of a few Corps above everyone else in the activity into perpetuity, while at the same time destroying the circuit that serves half of the currently active Drum & Bugle Corps in existence (Open Class).
Maybe it's time we all go back to the founding documents and take a look. A few things like brotherhood, and other simply .... ridiculous ideals .... like ...... Supporting, growing and sustaining the activity.
I'd rather be in an organization that focuses primarily on serving their kids, building them into leaders, and giving them great experiences, than one that concerns itself primarily with how they can leverage the kids to make the most profits, thereby ensuring they stay at the top of the game.
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There's a great deal of "To Be Determined" left in the proposal in it's current form. I don't know what the plan calls for in the future for Open Class other than some "Regional Association" which we don't know a thing about. But "not knowing" is not the same as "throwing under a bus". The vision in the presentation is very incomplete . Do the directors of the G7 feel like Open Class corps should just disappear? Doesn't seem very practical since that's where larger corps are born.
They can add into a show and they can attend the champs but there is no real service offered. This is a change –a clear change and a clear decision to confine our efforts to a specific group of organizations.
Confine - 1. To keep within bounds; restrict: 2. To shut or keep in, especially to imprison. 3. To restrict in movement
Confining efforts to a "specific group" sounds pretty "clear" to me.
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I find it interesting now that the G7 have brought up this proposal...now all of a sudden there is an outcry FOR the "lower" WC corps and the OC corps. Yet, history has proven exactly what 2000Cadet says here. I'm not saying that the fans do not support these other corps, but the attendance and amount of money spent towards these corps speaks volumes.
I think this summer the Fans need to truly show they DO care about all corps beyond the G7 though their actions. We should pack the stands for all the corps performing at events...and not wait till the G7/upper tier corps perform. Boost attendance numbers at Prelims events as well as Open Class events during (and before) Championships week.
Part of the reason this proposal was even put together was because of the actions of the fans. I'm not suggesting a boycott of the G7, rather a boost in support for everyone else so that when they do vote, they have proof that the support is there for them and ALL corps.
If you're including me, I've always supported A60, Division II/III, Open Class, whatever the divisions have been called. This is not a new development that people are wondering what happens to the 21 Corps that we will say Sayonara too, that no-one wants to even give more than a foot-note to in this discussion. I understand this is the World Class Forum, but this is a decision being made by World Class Corps that is essentially trying to kill off our segment of this activity.
Just because OC Corps don't get the same attention that World Class gets on this forum doesn't mean that there aren't thousands of people involved with these organizations, and many fans that DO care about them.
SO TRY TO THINK ABOUT THE HUNDREDS OF KIDS YOU ARE THROWING "UNDER THE BUS" when you're all sitting around talking about profit.
This is a YOUTH activity, comprised of NON-Profits. I understand the business elements of this activity. Believe me, I do. But this doesn't feel right. It feels like, "Try our new miracle weight-loss program! Instead of dieting, We just lop off your legs! The weight reduction results are amazing!"
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So, I know so much conversation has taken place about this proposal, but here is one thing I haven't seen directly addressed yet:
Open Class Corps (All other corps not listed in the AAA-AA-A class. )
Under the guidance and care of the regional association! They can add into a show and they can attend the champs but there is no real service offered. This is a change –a clear change and a clear decision to confine our efforts to a specific group of organizations.
If this proposal passes, what are we supposed to tell these kids?
7th Regiment
Blue Devils C
Blue Saints
City Sound
Forte
Genesis
Gold
Impulse
Incognito
Legends
Les Stentors
Music City
Oregon Crusaders
Platinum
Racine Scouts
Raiders
Revolution
Spartans
Spirit of Newark/New Jersey
Spokane Thunder
Velvet Knights
I suppose someone will go up to these corps and say, "Oh by the way, we're trying to appoint this new regional association that will control your destiny now, if they feel like it. Hope you guys have all your ducks in a row, cause you're on your own!"
So I'm assuming they won't want to waste any space on the DCI website listing these guys, since they're not "Worthy" of bringing in lots of Moola for the World Class guys. Too much effort I suppose, lets just ignore these 21 corps. Who cares about those kids? Or the fact that they comprise almost HALF of the remaining Drum Corps associated with the DCI Circuit?
They can audition with all the rest of the band kids to be part of World Class, or sit on the sidelines, right? If I'm reading this wrong, I would LOVE for someone to set me straight, cause this is REALLY beginning to bother me.
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This whole situation makes me sad. If he has the money he claimed, and had approached this in a different way, this whole thing could have turned out differently, albeit over a much longer period of time.
Failure is a great teacher. If he really is as passionate as it seems, relaxes on the ego, and enlists the help of educated and mature individuals, his dream could come to fruition some day.
If he's reading this, and I can offer any advice: Humility is a great asset. Realize that you can't re-invent the wheel. There are so many individuals who are much wiser and much more talented than any one of us in our early 20's. Try and go about getting them involved in the correct way. Let them teach you what they know. Be patient and be grateful for their assistance.
And, let's face it: 99% of new businesses fail. Drum Corps is a business. It's almost more important to have a solid admin team than building an instructional staff. It's the executive body that handles the legal, administrative, and business elements. It is they who should be guiding and steering the ship. If you want to be the guy running the music program, do that. But make sure you are prepared to handle that also before you bite off more than you can chew.
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1. School ends way too late, sometimes as late as June 28 or 29.
2. People are burned out on supporting drum corps. Too many years of people going to that well.
3. The cost of living is insane and many cannot afford the costs of drum corps on top of that.
4. Bingo is dead. The no smoking laws killed the last successful games and the corps with them.
Those seem like very big problems, however, let me play devil's advocate for a moment:
In Canada, school ends June 30th. (and sometimes, especially in Alberta, there's snow on the ground until the end of May!) It may make it harder to, say, put a corps in the Top 12 of Division one (err. World Class), but there have been a few Canadian Corps that have done it in the past. I could see it being a little easier in New York.
If people are burned out on Drum Corps, why is DCA in Rochester so well attended and growing? There must be plenty in the great state of NY who support drum corps still. If one was looking to rustle up support for a new junior Corps, I would assume attending DCA Championships would be a great place to find some support from old corps members in the state.
But, if traditional supporters are burned out, why not look for fresh new faces? I mean, you can always find new families to support you, if you build it as a great youth activity first and foremost, provide an excellent quality-experience for your students, and then slowly introduce your parents and supporters to the concept of DC through your programming, videos, regional shows, etc.
The cost issue is probably the biggest factor, But it is not an insurmountable obstacle, given the right levels of support. Who says that any Corps from NY state has to be World Class? A strong open class corps would be a lot less expensive I'm sure.
Have you researched the local bingo situation? In Alberta, we have similar non-smoking laws to New York, but some halls are still doing ok, and it may require looking into new facilities that have been relatively un-tapped and in favorable areas. Do they allow Casino fundraisers in New York? That may be a way to help funding if it's permissible.
Sorry a little off-topic.
Wishing the best to both Citations and Spartans this upcoming season. More Corps = Better.
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Emailing with Steve Vicekers re the new "rookie" type corps being formed and some rebuilding corps, He is hopeful that someone will step forward with a plan to get all these divergent groups organized and he will help all he can through his newspaper.
From th July issue of DCW a group of 9 from NY, Conn & Penn are wanting to make contact with other like minded groups re forming some type of assn. to organize this new "Regional" type assn.
The contact person is Roger Exposito at 484-240-4686 or roger@starcrossdbc.org
I would ask the new Quebec corps formed last year and this to contact him to get involved, in Ontario, new corps in Sault Ste Marie and one in Orillia hopefully starting Sept 2010, and Conquer II in Hamilton plus St. John's in Brantford re-building. This would bring together a group of 20 new or rebuilding corps in the NE U.S., Que, and Ont.
PLEASE! At least send you contact information to Roger and see what kind of arrangements can be made to benifit all corps involved.
Hmmmmm? The CanAm Drum & Bugle Corps Assn?
Let's hear the feedback and suggestions on this project.
Interesting... keep us in the loop.
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Well, you can at least scratch three of those of that list since Fever is around, the return of VK and there's the Bridgemen Alumni! ^OO^
Do you know something I don't? If you have any recent info on Fever's status, can you please pm me and share?..
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Excerpted from www.allegianceelite.org/
"On Tuesday, August 25th, the drumline was hired and featured in a video about Canadian Olympic downhill skier Jan Hudec. These 2 minute “vignettes” will be televised “internationally” in January and February prior to and during the Olympics."
There is a whole article on this along with some of their future plans. Looks like they plan to make the trip to Rochester in 2010.
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The Strutters Open House is being held on Friday, September 25th, from 6:30 - 9 PM at Laurier Heights School, 8210 142nd Street in Edmonton, AB. We've got a great facility this year, and an early start.
The event is being held in the South Gym and membership packages will be available for all interested students/families. This will be a great opportunity for anyone interested in our programs to come and meet our staff and administration.
For more information, check out our website: http://www.strutters.org/
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Thanks for the update and a reminder to send you a cheque. I'll also let the ladies know in November:-)
My reference to Calgary's potential was with respect to the number of marching bands, pipe bands and showbands the area has as compared to Edmonton. I'm aware of Edmonton's many school based stage bands but very few march. I want an active drum corps environment in our city as much as you. I'm glad your program is growing, let's keep in touch.
Thanks Linda :) Well, you certainly are correct about Calgary in that aspect. It has always been a hotbed for marching activity.
On another note, I'm not sure if you have seen them recently, but the Edmonton All-Girls Marching Ambassadors are still around, as a Colorguard. They have been hosting a winter show in town for a number years now, called "Critique This!" it's a WGI sanctioned show as far as I understand, and it takes place in usually in late February or early March.
You may want to stop by this year and check it out. We will have show info posted on our Facebook group (Strutters Drum & Bugle Corps) and on our website when the event gets a little closer.
Question regarding equipment
in DCI Open Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Just a question - Does any place still sell new G keyed horns? Just curious.