OMello1
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Posts posted by OMello1
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and yes...there was another version of this move done in 1999...
~ M
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1995
4:42 (beginning of the drum feature)
didn't make high cam, but you can see the hornline doing something very fast behind the percussion.
~ M
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ummm, I would say Star '93 was the epitomy of minimalism. Very few colors, exposed music, no literal theme, no gimmicks. You could say it was our own response to the '92 show. I don't see how the cavaliers Machine show could be seen as minimalistic. They had everything but the kitchen sink in that show (except for narration thank goodness)...this isn't a bad thing just and observation. Tangible and accessible, yes...minimalist no. On second thought, from a "theme" perspective, I see what you're saying. Take a very basic/skeletal idea and run with it from there.
To clarify my answer, I'd say Star '93 is minimalism of content while recent Cavies shows are minimalism of theme.
I would venture to say that Star '93 was ALL gimmick. The concept, being something SO far outside of what any other drum corps had done, was intentionally selected to create a stir among our community. I think that makes it a gimmick. Now, I'm not saying it is a bad thing AT ALL...the word gimmick has a lot of negative connotations associated with it in our activity that make it an unappealing way to describe a show. But along those lines, you could argue that just about any show that tries something new is a gimmick...so...now my head hurts...
M
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Are you serious? Because I absolutely love "Trivandrum", the opener in 2002. It's my favorite original composition in drum corps.
Except that it really wasn't very much of an original composition...listen to Stravinsky's Symphony in C (or is it Symphony in Three Movement?). Clearly parts of it are lifted directly from his works...
M
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Wow - Madison not in the top 12? What are you smoking?
Whatever it is, it must be circa 2002.
M
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that's a joke... right?
It WAS at 208bpm, AND, I bet the ladders were rarely in the same place twice. I can understand how it would be a little scary for the marching members, wondering if they were next to crash into a pile-up that they don't know about. BUT...from an audience perspective, it didn't look all that precarious if you didn't realize what you were looking at...
M
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just throwing this out there... but then why did a lot of guard members appear to have mics?
they were props...nonfunctional.
M
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The show would have lost what was cool about it.
Similarly, let's say SCV's Miss Saigon show wasn't performed until 2009, when electronics are allowed. To produce the helicopter sounds in the beginning, a pit member would simply hold down a button on a synthesizer.
That, right there, is exactly why I do not support electronics.
Art thrives in its limitations.
The rules proposal that nearly passed this year would not have allowed for the situation you described above. It was emphatically stated in the meeting (but was a little unclear in the actual proposal) that one stroke = one note. A member would not be able to hold down a key and get an extended or sustained sound or sample, from my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone else who was there if I misunderstood Hopkins.
M
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Just a quick note for discussion;
[edit]
Perhaps I'm wrong, and I look forward to hearing from current and past corps members to gain their perspective.
Careful not to get "fans" confused with "you".
M
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And now, for the DCP masses, Drum corps camp madlibs!
things are going awesome at _____ (corps name), and judging by the turnout at the last camps and the show and tell on sunday, we're well on our way to (making finals/breaking into the top six/winning another title) in 2007. ________ (name of instructor) is making up for the loss of ________ (name of former instructor) and the kids are really enjoying working under him. ________ (name of brass caption head) put together another great brass book and ___________ (name of visual designer/program coordinator) was there to let the kids know where he's thinking of taking ______ (name of show) from a concept and visual standpoint. by the end of the weekend the brassline had ____ (number of minutes of show completed) of the show music, and the percussion will have the same amount completed by the next camp. spring is shaping up nicely in _______ (corps homewtown) and we're looking forward to our first show on _______ (date of corps' first show)
Beautful. Love it.
Camp Reports Mad Libs...
M
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I was wondering does anyone know how many square feet a football field covers from sideline to sideline and end to end including the goal zone?
Including both end zones: 57,600 square feet
M
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you should never have to sacrifice having an upright, tall, raised body for a jazz run.
so squatting and looking bad isnt a requirement.
dont believe me?
ask todd ryan
I completely agree and Todd Ryan is a incredible visual mind.
But adding a plie to a jazz run technique (which Blue Devils don't seem to do, and Cavaliers do) does not mean the body alignment, separation, or posture should suffer (and I'm not implying that is what you were saying, in case you weren't). A plie done well allows the spine and rib cage to remain separated, lifted and tall.
What I don't like to see, personally, in a jazz run is the up-down-up-down-up-down of the whole body when one jazz runs and does not plie. But I suppose that is personal taste.
M
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Here's mine:
Care to guess the corps and year?
Cavaliers, 2005. Closer drum solo, near the beginning.
done.
M :P
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Hey, thank my professor.
M, I'm sure you know that adding woodwinds would mean a much larger corps to deal with visually. As a drill writer, what you think will happen to drill in a future that includes woodwinds? Will the visual drill remain as intense and fast-paced? If so, how? I would really love to hear the perspective of someone who writes drill for profit on this. You must be thinking of this whenever you see anything about increases in size. Thanks for the input!
Well, I never really specifically said I was in favor of woodwinds. I am, now (I wasn't always) in favor of adding electronics and the capabillities they offer. Woodwinds would need to be considered seperately, and if they do happen in drum corps, I feel they are still a ways off, so I'm not going to worry about that right now. I think everybody has their "limit" on how much change they can handle or embrace and how quickly. I realize that I am usually fairly quick to embrace new ideas, but believe it or not, I do have an eye for tradition, and I do have a fondness for brass and percussion. Will I be anxious to see that go? I'm not right now. I think there is a lot we can do and say with brass + percussion + amplification + electronic instruments. I'm not, at this point, in favor of an "anything goes" approach.
Now, to address your original question. Why would adding woodwinds mean larger corps? You are thinking that if woodwinds are passed, the corps size limit is increased to 180 or 200 to accomodate sections of woodwinds? But, believe it or not, logistics do play into these decisions. The corps are NOT interested in having to tour with 4 buses for members, compared to the 3 of today. The additional members in the new 150 limit will fit nicely onto the 3 55-seat buses most corps are using these days. So, if woodwinds were to be ratified down the road, I would suspect that corps would have to fit their woodwinds into the current 150 limit. Maybe the limit goes to 160 or 165. Still a very manageable size on the field, IMO.
As far as this current increase in size to 150 goes, I think it finally gives corps the opportunity to balance visually their hornlines and colorguards. I know a lot of people who feel that to get a decent amount of sound out of a multi-key hornline, you need at least 64 or more members. But that limits the size the guard can be...and I know that 30 or 32 guard just doesn't balance a 64 or 72 person hornline well enough. But I suppose that is personal taste and somewhat subjective. I also know that there are a lot of visual ideas that get cut because drum corps hornlines (most are around 64) are just too small to pull off some ideas. Increases to 72 or 80 do open up some opportunities while keeping the size managable enough to keep em running around. I know I certainly DO NOT want to write for a drum corps hornline of 100 or more...add a 50 person colorguard and a full battery and then I think we start to loose the ability to produce *clean* shows...or maybe not? Who really knows unless we try?
M
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You don't need "ideas" for a drum corps show! You need music, and drill, and THAT'S IT!
JESUS JAZZ RUNNING CHRIST!
Well apparently you've got it all figured out and it really is that simple...
M
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My English composition teacher gave a very interesting lecture on Friday. It summed up to him saying "constraints lead to creativity." Just thought I'd share some other places where there is a debate about creative freedom.
I don't disagree with that at all. I am a drill writer myself, and I MUCH prefer to have a concept or theme to design within...such things trigger ideas. But if I was given the same theme or concept to design within year after year...uh, yeah, I would run out of ideas. And in fact, I really wonder if visual design will hit a wall one day. I know that I am stockpiling what I consider to be "new" ideas to keep my own design style fresh and innovative. But given limited tools to work with: a hornline, a colorguard and a drumline, new ideas are hard to come by. That is why the roles of each have grown significantly over the years: dancing added to guard, hornlines are "dancing" more and more (and I feel that is the direction visual design will take in the future). The drumlines are still stuck, visually, in the 1980's. But the explosion of the indoor percussion acitivty will eventually make a significant impact on what outdoor lines do visually...so, there are still some areas to be explored visually in the future.
M
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As a Member of a corps , i kind of take offence to them brining in electronics. Is the hard work that me and my family of the corps do to play our horns and other instruments not good enough . I take it as they think we arent good enough.
Then I would say you are looking at this ENTIRELY wrong. This has never been, and will not be, the reasoning why the capabilities of the music ensemble have been or will be widened. I think it is unfortunate that a marching member would take a rules proposal like this, which is meant to foster more creativity, bring new sounds and ideas to the activity, and generally INCREASE the entertainment value of what we do, as a personal attack on their abillities. And in fact, if you want to take a viewpoint such as that, then it is really more of an admission by the designers in the activity that they don't feel they can continue to be creative and bring new sounds and ideas to the activity under the current rules.
But, in my mind, what it comes down to is that DCI and BOA share a lot of common resources, including membership, fan base and the designers and instructors. It wasn't always, but it certainly is now, that DCI and BOA are very similar in what they do. So when two acitvities share the same designers and instructors, and one activity, which is limited in the talent and ability to achieve at the highest levels happens to have the most wide-open opportunities to create, and the other has comparatively unlimited amounts of talent and the ability to achieve at the highest levels, but restricts the designer's ability to do what they do...well...it really is inevitable that one takes on more and more of the other.
And, I want to add, the argument that "true creative genuis" will find ways to be creative within the current rules structure is a bunch of sillyness. Will they? Yeah, maybe...for a while. But after a while, there just aren't that many new ideas, concepts or colors that can be found that are of value. It is like saying to a chef "I want you to make me a different pasta dish each night of the week with only these 8 ingredients, but make sure each one continues to introduce new flavors, smells, etc.." Even the best chef in the world is eventually going to feel limited by their 8 ingredients. Our "chefs" have had the same basic ingredients since 1972, and although we've allowed them to "cook" them in different ways (amplification, stationary pits, etc...), they ultimately want to bring in some new ingredients to keep the dish interesting. Not a perfect analogy...but it serves the purpose.
This is no longer an acitvity for the traditionalist. It hasn't been for quite some time, but that is more apparent probably now more than ever. There are venues for the traditionalist. When DCI was set up in 1972, this path of action was decided...maybe they didn't realize it at the time, but when the corps took control of their destiny--out of frustration--these future events became inevitable. Now, if people want to remove the ability of the corps to direct their own destinies, then--out of frustration--THE PEOPLE will have to take action (and a silly online petition isn't action...) to do so. Do people start a new circuit and try and entice corps to come over? Don't waste your time. Do you choose to support the branch of the activity that carries the same beliefs and values that you do? YES.
DCI...and by that I mean: the corps, their members, the staff and designers, and the fan base that DCI has chosen to value and focus on (read: the younger fans) DOES NOT value the concerns of the "legacy" fan. In fact, I would say they feel (and this is a generalization that I probably shouldn't be making...) that the legacy fan is HINDERING (or would hinder if they could actually make a difference) the development of DCI's brand of the activity into what it can or should be.
Probably not what most or a lot of you want to hear...but that is what I feel is the truth.
M
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I, for one, think the petition is ridiculous and lacks any substantial reasoning or logic.
I support the use of electronics and welcome the day when the corps have within their grasp the tools contemporary marching music ensembles should have. I look forward to the enhancements electronic instruments will add to the overall music and thematic presentations.
My $.02
M
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A preview of 2035 DCI world championships???
M
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as fans we may not see much of a difference but as members we will. Think about it...most corps equipment trucks are packed as it is especially with amps and such now. So add 15 new instruments and guard equipment and you have to wonder where it'll all go. Do you rent another box truck? On top of that more food and how are the corps supposed to get the extra 15 down the road? Sure as heck can't put them in the staff bus so do you buy a new bus? While I'm all for opening opportunities for more to march, cause i hate seeing people cut, it doesn't really seem logical. And how do you pay for it? Obviously raise the fees! I'm not taking one side or another but that was my 2 cents
You have a point on where all that extra equipment is going to go on the truck, especially if some of these corps decide to add 10 or 15 horn players. But certainly an issue that each individual corps will address on their own and figure out...nobody will force any corps to add 10 hornplayers...(but the "keeping up with the jones'" effect will certainly be strong...)
As far as getting the extra 15 members down the road, the reasoning behind the proposal is that a majority of corps are now renting/leasing/purchasing 55-seat charter buses these days...that is 165 seats for members. The corps see these empty seats as opportunities to (1) include more kids in the activity, (2) as an additional funding resource and (3) an opportunity to provide more flexibility to set their section numbers as they see fit (most notably, a bigger colorguard, IMO).
The corps are already paying to have 150 (or more) members moving down the road. Yes, there are more mouths to feed, and the need to uniform/costume these new members, and provide instruments, and find additional gym floor space (which, at times, is hard enough with 135). But the additional $15,000 - $20,000 in dues these new members would bring in would offset that cost some, and for many corps, the costumes/uniforms & equipment are provided either free or at a reduced cost.
Also remember that historically, corps size has always been established based on what 3 charter buses can handle. That old 128-member limit was not a randomly chosen number. As the capabilities of the transportation side of things has grown, so has the membership limits. We are finally approaching the days when the size/distribution of a corps will be based on what the corps actually want and need.
M
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Wish they would announce already. When I marched and instructed there the members had all the music and a good chunk of drill on by now.
Phantom had drill on in January in Northern Illinois?
huh?
M
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Low Hundreds......
$75000.00 per summer tour vs $2500.00 per summer tour. Plus pay for housing. For a corps to come out of Florida, let alone South Florida for that kind of money, means they better have one heck-uv-a bank account.
In Florida, you don't get paid to do parades. So you have to go up North to get paid for parades.Also, there is no Bingo to speak of. If you had it, you can only run 2 nights, with a relatively small pot compared to other bingos in the country.
For a Corps to operate in Div 2 or 1 with 3 busses, 2 semis, staff, food, fuel, etc., count on a 300-500 thousand dollar budget per year. THATS why KK wants to be out as a Div 1 corps!
Any Corps out of Florida has to be Div. 1 to survive financially. Especially since there are no shows within 8 hrs at least. Once you go out on the road, you have to stay there.
That was one of the good things about DCM. Lots of shows within a couple hours, and the 2/3 and Sr. corps were paid better per show for the most part.
If this is the case, it makes one wonder what it was about South Florida that was so attractive as to move the corps operations to an area where fund raising would be seemingly impossible. The talent? Sure, there is loads of it in Florida...but there are other ways to mine talent from different parts of the country without having to move the entire corps to that area. Ask...um...well just about everybody now...everyone is holding remote camps in talent-rich areas.
M
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I personally believe that ANY corps that goes inactive for one season or more should be required to re-enter competition in Division II. They can still have 135 members and can do a full tour if they so choose, but I think it's more conducive to the rebuilding process than jumping in head to head with The Cavaliers, The Cadets, Blue Devils, etc. If the corps is really Division I quality, they can declare their intentions to go Division I along the way (ala The Magic in 2002).
I don't think KK is pining to stay D1 so they can continue to take on The Cavaliers, Blue Devils and Cadets. Obviously, that is silly in their current form. Unfortunately, I feel there is a stigma attached to corps who must or are forced to move "down" a class. As much as we all wish it wouldn't, it does affect recruiting, fund raising, staff retention and such, and makes it more difficult to regain D1 status. But it is clear that the course of action that KK has followed in recent history has not worked for the organization (their current situation is evidence enough, don't you think?).
Only the corps itself and the DCI oversight board really have the knowledge to determine what is the most appropriate course of action for a corps who is reorganizing. Not everycorps will be able or should come back to D1 right away, some can and will be successful back in D1.
Best of luck to the KK organization and their staff, volunters and members as they figure out what the best course of action is for them.
M
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Man...those upper bodies are immaculate. You just don't see that kind of separation much anymore...
M
Cavaliers in Trouble?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
They're toast.
Talk about slamming the door on one chapter in their history, and stumbling through another to their next. All remnants of their '00's dynasty have now vanished.
Sad...
~ M