Jamesdrum007
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Posts posted by Jamesdrum007
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i guess i'm glad i was in the lot that night instead of in the stands.
i heard complaining about what happened later that night back at my housing site, but that was it.
did it really get that bad?
Twas a sad night for drum corps.
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I completely agree. IMO, 1992 (which was a great show in and of itself) was a definite precursor to a spectacular 1993 show. I was left totally convinced that The Cadets and David Holsinger were a perfect match. However, much to my dismay, they followed-up 1993 with WST… ugh. My only thought was they believed they would win a cash prize by playing WST for the millionth time in drum corps history.
I'm waiting patiently, but no one has yet asked "What is WST?" Do you mean West Side Story? Or WSS?
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You don't think there was beer at the theaters.
Who are you kidding!!!
We had brought in two cases and enjoyed the beer more than the show!!!
CODI
Yep fer sure. I had friends tell me that they attended the showing in NY and went to an upscale pub right next door to the theater during the "less attractive" corps and had a few before returning to see the "good" ones!
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Pretty strong words..I can't say I blame him for his angst. The behavior exibited at QF's by many in the audience was deplorable and a scar on the face of an otherwise great finals week.
I didn't read his blog, Tubamann, so I thank you for posting it. I agree with you, and George, completely.
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I thought DCI banned alchohol sales from all events. Hearing that beer was sold at the finals is good news. In San Antonio th still had their big "Shiner on draft" sign up but were not selling beer. Too bad - could have used a cold one after hours of drum corps.
Not just finals; beer and wine were sold at all Rose Bowl events. No sales in San Antonio? Very interesting. Does anyone know if DCI had an active role in NOT allowing sales at the San Antonio DCI Regional show, but allowed it at DCI Championships? Just curious about the consistency (or inconsistency?).
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From what I understand there was also booing at some movie theaters. No beer there.
Yep, I heard that too. I also heard that some theatergoers threw candy at the screen. I spoke to an HS band director who had brought some of his students to a theatre to watch. He said that he had to caution his kids to not get involved in the negative behavior. :(
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Should DCI allow the sale of alcohol at shows? DCI should not prohibit the legal sale of alcohol when available. Since DCI doesn't have the right to provide alcohol they aren't in a position to allow or disallow the sale or consumption of it in a stadium possessing the right to do so.
I don't think you're correct. They are in the position. DCI (or anyone negotiating an agreement to use a stadium) DOES have the right to determine whether or not alcohol should be sold. The question is, SHOULD DCI take a stance on the sale, or non-sale of alcoholic beverages at drum corps shows?
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the crowd around me was rude and pretty unenthusiastic - I guess boozing it up made a few even more loud and rude
was not impressed AT ALL
What were you not impressed with?
to the topic - I believe alcohol is out of place at a DCI event but get the fact that sometimes in order to use a particular venue we are stuck with it
Is a contest sponsor "stuck" with it? Or do they have a right to say whether or not it should be sold?
Some have pointed out that, at $7 each, most fans who enjoy a drink aren't going to have 6, 8 or ten drinks. At least not inside the stadium anyway. Perhaps enjoy a few before entering. Is the length of the show a factor in the decision to allow serving? i.e. a 23 corps quarterfinals v. a 6 or 7 corps show?
I apologize for not knowing that using larger print size is considered shouting. I thought that ALL CAPS was shouting. I only did it for easier reading for folks (like me) who need reading glasses. BTW is there also an unwritten ban/prohibition against using color?
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Actually George looked like he could have used a cocktail by the end of Quarterfinals ... I'm just sayin'.
Does he still take the same pledge that they require of all members: no drugs or alcohol during the season? I know that he said he's done so in the past.
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Your Big Brother mentality scares me.
Nope, not Big Brother mentality at all. Just being observant of what's going on around us.
I have a funny feeling you have already told DCI what YOU want....
Nope, I haven't told DCI anything....and truthfully they probably wouldn't listen to me anyway. And, I am NOT personally in favor of banning alcohol sales at drum corps shows. My purpose for this thread was to confirm, or dispel, the possibility that alcohol consumption was somewhat to blame for for terrible fan behavior to the members of the Cadets. Based upon the sampling of replies here, it seems that this was NOT the case.
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no pigeon died in the incident from what i heard, but a gun was fired.
they replay that WKRP up here every Thanksgiving ~ it never gets old. i still laugh so hard i cry. thanks for bringing that up. i needed that smile. :)
Off topic: Ahhh the infamous pigeon incident by Westshoremen. DCA Finals in Hershey PA in 1981? Someone in their corps has the great idea to release white homing pigeons at the end of their performance. Great idea. BUT....homing pigeons don't fly at night!!!! Soooooo....when the pigeons were released that night....they just stood there on the field.
Yes, Liz, a gun was fired. Many times; by the T&P judge, the infamous Walter Kelly. After a lengthy delay, he thought he'd try to scare them off the field by repeatedly firing his starter pistol at them. HILARIOUS!!! Of course, ineffective. Only blanks of course, but the sensitive folks in the stands starting booing Walter!! I guess they thought that he was trying to kill them. You couldn't script something this funny. We had to wait maybe 15-20 minutes while Westshore people personally retrieved all the pigeons off the field.
I was percussion caption head for Sunrisers that year, and we were on next. We stood out there on the field for a verrrrry long time waiting to perform. So Renegades can only release the white pigeons at DCA prelims. B)
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The last drinks were served at 7:00, so I don't think it was a factor in the Cadets case.
Appreciate your post, but not sure if you're correct. I was at the concession stand during the 6:45 PM quarterfinals break, and warm beer and wine were still being sold. Then after the Blue Knights 7:02 PM performance I saw fans returning to their seats with full beers. Are you sure?
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The folks I saw were not performing alcohol-induced boos, but rather general run-of-the-mill look-at-me-make-a(n)-****-of-myself boos. Can't speak for the whole crowd, of course, and maybe others had other experiences, but I don't think alcohol had any impact there -- would have happened the same way either way, IMO.
Maybe, you're right that there was some "amplification" (kinda ironic, wouldn't you say :) ), but I still wouldn't say that the answer is to remove the beer -- the answer is to deal with the miscreants.
Liam, I agree with MelloDisciple that you have been articulate and on point with this thread. And I agree with your above comments; they'd have booed with or without the beer. Cute use of the word "amplification" too.
I'm the OP and as I said I've never done one before; this is my first. I've appreciated the many intelligent and sensible replies and opinions.Perhaps some of us wanted to believe that the rude and inconsiderate behavior of those "miscreants" (your word, good choice!) was somewhat alcohol-induced, rather than them just being genuinely classless and insensitive to the feelings of the corps members who they booed.
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Guys, it isn't a choice. It is dictated by venue.
You may be correct, but I'm not sure (he said kindly). I was with Hopkins at John Hannigan's lake house last Sunday. He says that every year the Giants Stadium people press him for the sale of alcohol beverages at his show there; and he said that he does not grant permission for it. He tells them that this is a family-oriented event. If true, then apparently there is some control over it?
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As for DCI "allowing" -- it's the stadiums policy that trumps. Sure DCI could ban it at all shows, but they can't "allow" it at stadiums that otherwise do not have beer sales (high school stadiums, on campus college stadiums). Not entirely true that "all NCAA sanctioned college sports do NOT allow such sales." Championship events, yes -- like the NCAA b-ball tournament. Regular season games though for both basketball and football, it's the stadium that rules -- on-campus stadium owned by the school, NO; leased stadiums (like Madison square garden, Rose Bowl, Allstate Arena in Chicago, etc), YES. Also bowl games are technically sanctioned by the individual bowl organizations, so even though its an NCAA event in some respects -- beer can still be sold. Convoluted rules.
I appreciate your clarification of alcohol sales at college sports events. As for the Rose Bowl, George Hopkins told me that he complained to Dan Acheson about alcohol sales after quarterfinals. He said that at semifinals the alcohol sales were cut off at the break (is/was this true?)
ps If there were a DCI temperance movement afoot, I would not be one of those who'd push for it!
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Question #1: Should DCI allow the sale of alcoholic beverages at any DCI competitions?
Question #2: Do you know or believe that this was a factor in some of the crowd’s boisterous behavior towards Cadets at the quarterfinals competition?
All (or most) professional sports events allow the sale of alcohol. I’m told that all NCAA sanctioned college sports do NOT allow such sales. If ours is a family-oriented activity, should we avoid the sale of alcoholic beverages?
I was on line for macho nachos at quarterfinals in the Rose Bowl, and I saw people buying wine because the beer at our stand was warm. I did not see any spirits being sold. The behavior of some audience members towards the Cadets that night was clearly unacceptable and shameful; it reflected poorly upon our activity, and I was embarassed. Did the continuous sale of alcoholic beverages since 2 PM that day contribute to their rude and boisterous behavior seven hours later at 9 PM? I personally did not see (I only heard) the people shouting rude comments before and during Cadets performance. Can anyone personally confirm or disavow the connection between their rude behavior and drinking? Thank you.
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Funny thing is young people getting experience in a DCA corps to make DCI has been going on for decades. Even when the DCA/DCI "Cold War" of ignoring each other was going on.
You are very correct. In the 50s and 60s, people would age out of jr. corps, and some would continue to march with senior corps. Since DCI, and all-summer touring, it is usually the reverse. Kids march senior corps first, when they are HS students. Then when they're older and experienced, they audition for junior corps. WHY? Usually it is availablility. My college age son is out of spring semester on May 6th every spring. My HS son is out of school on June 22-26th. If you have two people auditioning for a DCI spot who are comparably talented (and, just as importantly, both have a check in hand for their entire year's dues!) B) and one is college age (and available in 1st week of May) and the other is and HS student (available in the 4th week of June) then which one would you logically give the spot to?
The increase in HS-age performers in DCA is a good part of the reason for the name change from Senior corps to All-age corps. I've personally taught many fine musicians in DCA corps (Sunrisers, Caballeros) who were talented enough to make a DCI corps, but they weren't available, and therefore not selected, due to their HS schedule.
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I'm pretty sure the right foot stepoff began in 1985 and had more to do with time signatures in the show. In that show you will also see the advent of the "stop 'n go"
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George,
If 1985 was their show with Bernstein's Mass, then you are correct about the right foot lead. A brief story about their right foot lead: Each year Ridgewood NJ would sponsor a big July 4th Independence Day parade. They'd pay for many good drum corps to march there, the best of which was always the Cadets. Eric Perriloux was a reknowned, old-school percussion instructor for Reilly and then Skyliners. He lived in Ridgewood and would always judge the parade. Each year the Cadets would NOT win the parade award for best drum corps, because Eric would always intentionally penalize them for being "out-of-step"!!
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Alright Brian Fallon. Congrats. You da man! Good work.
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Jim,
Sad to say that it won't change how others here in DCP behave. Other members have written similar statements, and the booers ignore them.
Mike
Mike,
I sadly agree that you're probably right. But I nonetheless believe that we need to continuously (and continually) remind these misguided people about the error of their behevior. I agree with the OP that it was indeed an embarassment for our activity to hear their negative behavior. I sat there in the stands that night with my family and I was saddened by the poor behavior of these vocally negative audience members. As you can see, I don't post here very much; but this was really wrong.
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It's really amazing how people will forget that we're just kids out on a football field. So many people get so caught up in this George Hopkins thing that I feel like some people think he goes out and finds 135 gang members to fight his war on innovating drum corps. But realistically that's just not the case. We're just 135 kids who want to be a part of something amazing. So when we work for three long months on a show that is the hardest thing I think any of us had ever done, and come to finals to get booed, it's hurtful. Now whether the booing was directed directly at the kids or at George, whatever the case, people forget that what they're looking at out on the field is 135 kids, not a professional football team. And if you think that 135 kids while out on the field about to perform their show for this first time at quarter finals are all automatically thinking, well of course they're not booing us, they're just booing George, that's probably not the case. So while I suppose every fan has the right to boo or cheer or whatever they want, I'm shocked that so many people would want to put a kid through something like that. But I'll definitely say it was quite an experience to be out there and experience that. I never thought I'd get booed my first time at Div I Quarter finals lol.
Thank you Jason for expressing your first-hand feelings about this issue. Your comments should quiet those foolish people who defend their booing by stating that they booed Hopkins, not you, and therefore you should be able to distinguish the difference while you stand there on the field preparing to perform. I appreciate you for posting.
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Whatever happened to Jimmy D'Amico, the great Cabs / Cabs alumni soloist?
I believe that he performed that night with Sky alumni.
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OMG, as a 16 yr old boy on the 1982 DCI tour we all used to go GA GA over Les Chatelaines de Laval.
They were sooo intense and so hottt at the same time.
You are absolutely right Joe. I remember judging Les Chatelaines back then. Yes, those French Canadian girls did have a certain sensuality. I think that one of the things that made them "hot" ( or hottt, as you say:) was their TUDE. They had a certain attitude (confident, assured, and perhaps aggressive) that they portrayed, and successfully conveyed, in their performance.
Regarding US all-girl corps, I personally wrote and taught the percussion of Royaleer Mounties (w/Kerchner teaching brass), and yes there were some attractive members there. But I agree with an earlier poster who nominated the Norwood Debonnaires from MA(incidentially also taught by Larry Kerchner). I recall competing against them and being most impressed! With deference to my dear Bon Bons friends, I'd have to vote for Debonnaires from US and Les Chats from Canada.
ps thanks to Martybucs for acting as the Sexist Police here! B)
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Bushwackers Beat the Heat
7/11/2007
Ridgefield Park, NJ
With Rochester, NY hosting the only DCA show last weekend, the Bushwackers Drum and Bugle Corps opted to stay put in Ridgefield Park, NJ and continue work on their 2007 production of "Around the Town". This decision gave the corps a great opportunity to fit more people into the drill, solidify the show top to bottom, and build endurance.
The corps rehearsed from 10am - 10pm on Saturday. The weather was sweltering, but the corps proved that they were fired up to work and improve the show after the debut in Bridgeport. In spite of the weather and the long rehearsal day, the members were positive and hard working. The day was capped off with a nice, long ensemble block and run through of the show. Everyone agreed that the show was much improved, and all left with a sense of accomplishment.
Sunday was even hotter, but the members and staff remained undeterred by the adverse conditions. Focusing on parts 1 and 4, the corps worked hard to solidify the bookends to the show...with spectacular results. The show is taking on a new life, and the members are excited to get to work again this weekend and perform under the lights in Clifton, NJ.
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The Bushwackers are the six time DCA world champions, a top 3 finalist each of the last 2 seasons, and the defending brass and color guard champions. The corps is still accepting members in some sections. If you have the desire, YOU can be a Bushwacker. Just come out to a rehearsal, go to www.bushwackers.org, or email us at membership@bushwackers.org for more details on how to have the best summer of your life!
The corps will be rehearsing this Saturday and Sunday, July 14th and 15th at 10:00 am in Ridgefield Park, NJ. If you've ever wanted to be a BUSHWACKER, this is your chance! Come on out!
Appreciate as always your updates Chris. I look forward to a highly successful Bushwacker performance this Saturday at the Grand Prix competition in Clifton, NJ.
SHOULD DCI ALLOW SALE OF ALCOHOL AT SHOWS?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Wow! Thanks for the perspective. Can you tell me where you live that has these permissive rules?