coloradocorp
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Posts posted by coloradocorp
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On 8/18/2019 at 9:01 PM, Jeff Ream said:
the alumni show barely breaks even.
Not surprised, but Alumni corps most likely sell tickets to the Prelims and Finals. I have four long time friends who are passing up Finals week after 14 years without missing one weekend - and the Alumni event was a factor in going every year. Fewer corps and a standstill indoors just does not do it for some. Hopefully DCA has a great weekend anyway.
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corp numbers continue to drop for various reasons as do the number of shows. There was one show night down South with ONE (1) corp. That aside, I believe that part of the reason for DCA staying in biz has been the Alumni corp performances. It put more butts in seats esp at Finals Week. There are now fewer Alumni corps as we all 'age out' and interest dwindles. Relegating the Alumni show to an indoor standstill - pretty bad biz decision. For those who truly enjoy DCA in its current form , I hope it survives.
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Who knows what the exact situation was, but given Marriott reacted so quickly indicates this was not about a room here or there that did not pay - rather probably a very significant amount of $$$ was involved - walked out without paying - bounced check or whatever. The fact that several mgmt types plus a ban by DCA indicates this was no small thing. Bet one thing that comes out of this for sure - all local area Williamsport hotels will depend payment up front.
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Downpours in contests underway and more so parades were not that uncommon back in the dark ages of the 60s for sure.
Those who were at the 1965 Dream in Jersey City - esp the Roch Crusaders - may recall that the show had threats of storms for most of the show - then Roch got to about the final drum solo - the thunder and some lightning as well as a little wet coming down showed up. But those on the field claimed the swirling wind dust devils were the bigger challenge. All I could think of was watching those in the CG with the aluminum polls. If you have a recording of that show - you clearly can hear the thunder clapping in tune to the exit being played - In the Still of the Night. To their credit - the crowd gave them a rousing ovation as they completed the show in that less than comforting situation. They deserved a better score that show for sure.
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The reason for no recaps from Prelims is the same rationale used by DCI this season perhaps ?
How was attendance at Prelims ?
I too would have purchased the Prelim live streaming had it been offered.
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The Alumni Corps are indeed mostly from the Golden Era so often mentioned. Age is catching up to the core group who got these corps off the ground and thus we are seeing the thinning of the number of corps as well as the ranks in the still active corps.
It is indeed about 'tribute', but initially it was about guys/gals wanting to relive the great times of the past.
Mr Holland's suggestion of putting the corps out in the parking lot may solve a financial challenge, but GMAB. These folks want to perform on a field like they did back when. The suggestion is a lack of respect for the older generation IMO. Does anyone really believe corps would spend $$$ and drive miles to put on a show in a parking lot ?
One last observation. DCA attendance continues to dwindle to a few thou. Attendance at the AS is even less. Fine - but how many of the Alumni guys/gals/support staff fill seats at the DCA Finals ? I tend to think it could be a BUNCH. Tell the Alumni to take a hike and you will have even far fewer butts in seats for Prelims and Finals.
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It will happen. I look forward to it.
I just don't want to go to Rochester again
Jeff - DCA ( and DCI to a lesser degree ) need to expand with more corps and perhaps even stage a Championship down South or Midwest perhaps - but reality controls it. For the relative near term, moving is NOT gonna happen because it can't. The vast majority of the fan base is NE based and I do not think the demographics say these fans would journey more miles than currently to attend the end of season extravaganza. This goes for the Alumni corps as well.
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I know nobody cares, but *my* take on all this:
Crunchy Frog "Got It"...
I&E/Mini used to be a night to blow off some steam, party with some friends and just entertain a crowd.
Almost every Minicorps was made up of competing corps members that just loved to play; nothing more.
(Especially when I&E/Minis came after Prelims)
Scores were irrelevant (105!?) - it was all about Camaraderie and Just Plain FUN for performers and fans alike.
Now it's all so.. gal-dang serious, what with recording rights/expenses and all, that most of the FUN has been taken out of it...
(Shrug)
True - but as was noted before .. DCA needs to attract more people to the weekly shows as well as the Finals. Telling the mini folks that DCA doesn't give a hoot about them - well you are going to have more empty seats next year in Annapolis. I only went to one show this season - the stands were barely occupied..sad that I could go to a Jersey Shore contest on a sunday afternoon with 6-7 corps with perhaps 1-2 being top grade and there would be 4-6K fans in those stands.
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Ok. So, you pay a fee. DCA pays money for a place for you to perform. Does your fees cover that? Odds are no. But DCA does it to be nice, and they do not charge admission.
So, then to come in here and throw a ####### temper tantrum.....what does that accomplish?
if anything it does more of what several of these tantrums over the years have done.....
turn people off on mini corps. Why? because year in and year out, it seems there more drama attached to that event than anything else all weekend. The only exception may be in 2006 when the weather at prelims tied mini corps for amount of drama and hissy fits
Jeff are you having a bad insurance day or what - you are realy cranky versus your usual words of wisdom.
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...you'll enjoy the recording/vid, Fran, 'cuz they knocked it out of der park at the Alumni show. I saw 'em three times during the weekend; The Dock, the mini corps competition and the Alumni performance...they got better and better!
By chance do you know what happenned to Les Dips - no shows ??? Did they fold ?
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well, did the mini corps offer to pay for this technology to be used?
DCA lets the mini corps perform there. You aren't DCA members. Be glad they give you the opportunity to play
Jeff - you come across as the unreasonable one on this thread. The gentleman had an honest concern which you did not take time to understand what the issue was about. Simply put - he wants something more than a few words on a piece of paper. The judges have the time - let them help to improve the shows. Given the fact that the digital tech in place for the field corps is in place - the incremental cost to provide it to the I&E and Mimi programs is ZILCH.
Very poor on your part to tell the Mini folks - ah go home and don't come back ! The activity is challenged and we want to sustain it, not see it fold in a few more seasons. Your approach of potentially turning people off of the activity really is so opposite your usual support for keeping it going.
You don't have to agree with commentary - but don't put it down so hard either unless you have substantive reasons which make sense.
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Anyone who says the gimmicks are inflating the score don't really know how the judging system works.
Mike
The judging system is far from being equitable across the board - Cavies were crowned as 'its their turn' from the outset and if anyone thinks any corp can beat them in Indy - get a life. Cavies could fall flat in INdy and Cadets/Crown or BD could perform a perfect show and the results would be the same. The Judges 'book' should be banned as it is unfair to all participants.
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I just have to comment about the Bucs....
For those who say that it's bad that only one corps is up at the top and it's bad for the circuit, I have to strongly disagree. The Bucs ability to perform at such a high level have made everyone else aspire to a much higher level of performance on their own. Look at the circuit in 2000 compared to today. You have to agree that DCA is much improved from the top to the bottom.
All corps aspire to better because of the Bucs dominance. No one is sitting back trying to compete for 2nd place.
By the way, weren't the same people complaining when the Brigs were dominant from the late 90s! GO DCA!
Shields UP, Mr. Sulu!
My two cents....
My point though is that with less real competition and of course 'costs' we have 46% fewer contests this year than in 1996 for instance plus add few butts in seats. But reality - DCI faces a similar issue though they are faring better for now. DCI would be in deep stuff if they had not shifted their focus to 'bands' from hard corp drum corp folk. It's a marketing thing and was glad to see DCA/DCI have joined forces to do a better job of marketing the new look of the activity.
I marched a show down the Jersey Shore in 1964 - 5 Junior corps - it was at my HS stadium with a capacity of 5800 seats - the place was packed. I went to a Jersey DCI show two years ago - if there were 3000 people at the show that was a lot. The quality of the corps today is superb, but the product wasn't selling as good as it should.
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Two posters have now said "the Cabs are out" and I'm stopping it right there. A 3 point spread with a second place guard means the Cabs are out???? Multiple reviewers have stated that the Cabs have a very difficult book this year, perhaps the most demanding in DCA this season. I am excited to see this corps progress throughout the season and clean up their show. That guard was really good yesterday. Their guard and hornline seems to be the two strongest sections. Let them get their percussion up to
snuff and they will be competing just like they always do.
I know my posts over the last few weeks have been pro-Cabs. The truth is I wish every corps a successful season. I am just getting annoyed by posters counting the Cabs out.
I hope the Cabs will move up, but it isn't a 3 point spread it is a 6 point spread from the Bucs and under the current adjucation system - verus tics- I have not seen any corp close that big of a gap at the top end of the corps - ever. Cabs have always been my fav - but to imply they will beat Bucs this season - be real. I loved the days when 'on any given night...' but that does not apply with today's judges. Corps compete to WIN - not finish second. The point is that the Bucs obviously have the total package - money, talent, staff etc. that produce the Ws - the other corps do a phenomenal job, but they need to replicate what's going on in Reading.
Of course - I recall 1959 - enters Reilly Raiders with an Irish heavy repertoire - a heck of a drumline/brass line - and when the judges were announced - Mallen ,Kelly, etc. - you KNEW who was going to win that show ...lol
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Review was appreciated. As a guy from the 'old school' it is sad that the activity appears to be on a downward spiral. Competing with 13 brass - indeed sad, but hats off to Bush. Great for the Bucs that they continue their what - 7 year dominance, but for the activity to only have one corp who wins it all all the time - isn't good over time. Even decades back - there were typically at least 5-6 senior corps who could compete for a win or at least come close on a somewhat consistent basis plus the 'others' in line fielded larger corps with entertaining shows. Now we are down to perhaps 3 - assuming the Cabs are out of it this year based on the first two contests. Hopefully that changes.
As to the alumni corps - obviously you were not in the activity back when or perhaps you marched band and not a corp ? Regardless - give the alumni credit - they practice on a less frequent schedule than competing corps and typically - you have quite a few of us older types in the lines.
Les Diplomates back in the 60's were always one heck of a powerhouse whose brass line could knock you over when they hit their peaks. Always a GE, crowd pleasing joy. If you get the chance - try to get a listen to their 63-70 shows - they were FUN indeed.
Cabs alumni IMHO - have done more to keep the activity alive than any other entity over the past few years. I've talked to quite a few people who only show up at a DCA show if the alumni give an exhibition. If you don't get butts in the seats - you can't afford the activity and corps today usually compete in half or less shows per season than they did back when plus the crowds were appreciably larger.
Barnum was always a good show, but the top shows were always the two in Jersey City - the Preview of Champions sponsored by St Pat's on Memorial day weekend and the Dream in August. These were the only shows in the country which always brought in the best of the best from around the country and Canada. Crowds could run 15-24K at their peak. Roosevelt Stadium was the perfect venue and the corps would rock the place.
Thanks for taking the time to fill us in.
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Scores were up last night. I checked after returning from Wildwood around 1:30 AM but their were no recaps and they still were not posted as of Sunday at 1:00 PM.
All corps weren't bad considering the first show jitters. It was hard watching the Sunrisers after seeing so many great shows back in the day.
The Cabs also didn't look good. Their show was just a ho hum show from the past, and with only 4 snare drummers it was really hard to take. Especially when the Cabs alumni had a full legion of percussion, that although playing a strictly rudimental show, did play well and most of all,entertained the auddience as did the rest of the corps. Soloists Kurt Hawkins, and George Hadley were almost at mid season form. You cant call them trumpet solos as Kurt still uses a 2 valve bugle and George is using a "G" horn. A very fine performance
The Reading Buccaneers have another Bobby Jones signature drill that never stops, and again their choice of music was very good, playing a semi classical show that was very recognizable. Rich Hammond's drum line again cooks up another barn burner with a "killer pit." Again the Bucs are to be delt with.
Talk about lack of respect for the past and claiming 'knowledge'of percussion -NOT. You drop a snide remark about Cabs Alumni 'playing a strictly rudimental show' - are you serious - you don't think rudiments are challenging nor fit the music ? Hey guy - try getting over your hangover before you post anything. When you trash the past - you show your total ignorance of the activity and its roots.
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Actually, it is a very short season and playing catch up is much more difficult than in the past. And to come out the first show with an incomplete program IS a problem. For the Cabs to find themselves closer to Carolina Gold and Fusion Corps than to the Bucs is also a problem. Compound this with the fact that there will likely be 2 to 3 corps placing somewhere between the Bucs and Cabs come Bridgeport. Certainly the Cabs will be in the hunt, however I don't think this was their goal for the 2011 season. Anyway, best of luck. DCA needs a competitive Caballeros corp.
So I guess in your world - if you start a football game down 14-0 in the first quarter - you should quit and go home. Give us a break ! All this says after weekend one is what we already knew - the Bucs have the off-season sessions locked down such that they are ready out of the gate. Cabs and the rest aren't at that level of prepardedness. Will the gap narrow - hope so - the more the Bucs win it all every year - the tougher for the activity to keep it going as well. We need to get back to where you had 2-4 corps each season at least who had a shot at winning shows.
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My bid - Mickey Petrone, Vince Bruni, Jim Russo
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I'm still shivering from the 1976 DCA Championships is Rochester. Why can't we go somewhere warmer like say, Alaska?
I agree Ray..certainly Alaska might be a consideration..hey - anywhere is better than Boston for sure.
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DCA send its judges across thew country for shows now. and if there was bias, MBI would be 5th, not 2nd, and Bush would not be 9th.
i'm in total agreement with ya Jeff. The bias claims are pure opinion of a few.
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The Northeast is a DCA stronghold and always has been. Everybody knows that, so no matter WHAT happens there's always going to be accusations of bias.
Agreed.
The NE has indeed been a stronghold of senior corps going back to the dawn of time and even before DCA - main reason - the majority of the corps are from that region. As for bias - there is bias in everything and everyone to varying degrees - but not as much from the 'unfair' side of things - but mostly humans vary in their preferences and assessments. I recall back in the early 60's for example - east coast drum lines tended not to score as well when they traveled to the Midwest and vice versa. I would suspect - today's subjective judging criteria perhaps makes the 'bias' of the judging crew more noticeable ? Or perhaps there really is no bias at all and the disagreements over the results of a show just a reflection of our own preferences ?
Is it time DCA adds judges during championship week from across the country ? I tend to think overall - while spreads 'might' be different - the results will be the same in the composite.
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Great discussion though mostly about the 70-80s era. There was some greats from the late 50's into the 60's as well - in all phases of the show. Being from the 60's, I was fortunate to have marched with several DCHOF members. The disagreements of fans today versus fans of 19XX mostly center on the music content or entertainment factor. The overall execution on the brass side between then and now is a no brainer. The corps from back then perhaps - in most opinions- had simpler books/drill design on the brass/drill side for sure. Then again - corps then didn't have the benefit of the level of sheer musical talent gathered from across the country/world into one unit - no instructional staff of 20 or so - and we practiced a fraction of the time today's corps ( DCI at least ) do. Heck most DCI corps practice more in one day than we did in a week at best. Add to that - many corps then played with older equipment - while many of today's corps have the latest/greatest versions - generally speaking.
As to the loud - there was quality for some corps of the then generations - everyone is entitled to an opinion. Sounds were different indeed on brass/percussion, but the shows tended to be electric in terms of fan reaction. I listen to a corp like Archie -1959 at Lewisburg,PA, Royal Airs 1965 at Nationals, Skyliners - at any year Dream or Preview, BS in 63, Madison from the 70's - etc. that was sheer entertainment - personally I'll listen to that over the shows of 2010 - but that is my preference. Others will say the sounds were 'harsh' etc. from back then - they also are entitled to say same.
It's been a great activity over the years and it was evolved certainly though all of us who are old or new to the activity should be concerned about the dramatic decline in the number of corps on the field. Tough to go to a DCI Championship show in Indy showcasing the best the activity has seen - overall talent wise - and see a crowd perhaps 7-8K less than what I remember seeing at shows in the 60's at Roosevelt Stadium in Jersey City which had say 5 seniors/5 juniors - and those shows rocked.
Each to their own ... we enjoy what we enjoy - period.
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As far as I can remember this issue dates all the way back to the 1964 World Open when the Troopers finished 11th and only the top ten made finals. The show orginizers had to bring them back for a final appearance or there would have been rioting in the streets.
The Troopers had made their surge into the mainstream in 1964 and everyone wanted to see their show - especially that M&M which was so prominent. Just FYI - Ray Samora of Fleetwood and DCN fame ran that show and my Dad managed a chunk of it for him. Fact was that Casper's appearance at the Finals was a done deal before they even competed in the Prelims. An exhibition slot had been set with Jim Jones IF they didn't make the Top 10 - which they missed by a few tenths. They were the whole package ..unies..entertaining music book...solid brass line....and OH that M&M which was superb.
Will DCA be around in 5 years?
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
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Jeff - time will tell where DCA is x years from now. Perhaps you will be one of the few left on these forums.