coloradocorp
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Posts posted by coloradocorp
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WOW!
Btw, Acheson doesn't make the rules nor does he enforce them when it comes to penalties at a competition. He operates the org on the business end. And what does Brandt have to do with a penalty? The man is an announcer and has only been an announcer for DCI for 25 years or so (maybe more ... I don't know).
The rule is the rule agreed upon by the DCI BoD, the rules committee and the final vote by all DCI corps directors. If you want to blame anyone, it should be them. I think the penalty stinks, but this is just a good case to investigate during the off season to find a way to add amendments to the rule so a near 9 pt penalty doesn't happen again when a truck breaks down.
Again......
WOW ............. and shame on you
So the next time you run a red light in Oshkosh and they give you 90 days in jail - that will be fine in your world. Get real Supersop. FYI - BD was late by 15 minutes three weeks ago - penalty assessed - zero - DCI wouldn't dare assess a penalty to their top corp......
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8.6 Penalty is a total absurdity then again Brandt Crocker is a jerk anyway so what would you expect. DCI claims they are all about the 'kids' - yeah right. years ago - outside of state or national shows - if a corp was running late - they usually just shifted them and assessed a 2 pointer. Achison needs to wake up and focus less on his own compensation ( way over paid ) and more about the realities that trucks and buses do break down.
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Anyone who thinks the current judging schema will allow anyone to beat Reading come September - MBI or whomever - is dreaming.
Of greater concern - as Reading continues to be the only game in town - at least according to the 'expert judging panels' - where will this lead us. Skyliners, Brigs, Crusaders - no longer competing - who is next to drop ? Can DCA survive with this scenario ? Heck - as the alumni corps continue to age out, even those ranks are thinning out.
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Anyone have a guess as to the size of the crowd at Invesco last night ??????
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???? have no idea what you're talking about Joe
Come on Tom - where is your sense of humor - it was obvious the guy was dishing on the new DCI concept of a performance before the performance. Hopkins from the Cadets basically wants to bring the joys of strings, woodwinds etc. to the 'idiots' who don't appreciate 'real' music, but rather real drum corp entertainment. That low grade stuff you were playing with the Brigs and Crusaders back in the 60's was 'mush' or so says DCI. ( all tongue in cheek ) Lighten up or DCA will ban you back to Seattle. lol.
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We are no longer living in the days (sadly) of the tic system and it is the substance which creates the scores. Under any scoring system - opinions on the results will differ.
As to the comments about Bucs killing DCA by being so dominant - taken at face value is a laughable statement, but perhaps the originator of the statement didn't mean it exactly in the way it was taken. I read it as a statement that since no other corp stands a chance to win it all - why bother. Over the past few decades we've see the number of excellent senior corps shrink. We just lost kingpins such as Cru, Brig and Sky. With perhaps only 3-4 real contenders - can DCA survive ? We've seen DCI change the landscape of the Juniors and what once was hundreds of corps, we are down to perhaps two dozen quality corps in total and now the 'brilliant' ones have a plan for the 'elite' 8 corps or so to breakoff a bit and have their own shows. Obviously the likes of Hopkins is looking to have a BLAST type show and let DCI fend for itself - it could mean the end to the activity as we know it. Who knows.
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Bucs quad line played more notes in 30 seconds than the combined tenor drum lines of DCI and DCA for the entire decade of 1970.
What an absurd statement and total disrespect and lack of knowledge of percussion and its history. Guess you feel that anyone who played tenor and is in the DCHOF should be removed ? Then again by your guidelines - you probably think Steve Gadd and any other accomplished old school percussionist is an amateur compared to any of the current DCA/DCA snare players ? Give the Bucs credit for a challenging book - then again give the old school credit as well - there were some phenomenal tenors then who would give the top quad player today runs for their money. You obviously were not around to see some of the 'great lines' of years ago - too bad - your opinion might change - then again ???
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I have been involved in DCA and DCI since 1963 and I marched DCA from 63 thru 79 including 3 DCI Champions, and I can agree with you that Drum Corps had a lot of passion back then. However, I've never seen a better Corps than this years Buccaneers. With G bugles there was a lot of sound back then, no doubt covering a lot of execution errors, not so with b flat bugles. The music all corps now play is demanding with far more exposure. There have been great corps in DCA since Reading won the first championship right thru Reading winning the last. IMO DCA has improved by the decade.
Would agree that the composition of the drill and music is indeed more complex and played mostly by college music majors or at least band types compared to back when - most were 'weekenders' - many(most ?) couldn't even read a music sheet . I disagree strongly with your proposition that 'execution' back then was covered up by the G horns. There were some phenomenal lines in the 60/70's and into the 80's for sure and execution was superb. Passion then was on another plain. Today it is the 'art' of music - back then it was about passion/electrifying the crowds - not that they don't approach that today, but today it is purely playing to the score sheets. You can cover up a lot more on the new drum heads than the old stuff for sure. Want a revelation - play a great line from back when at a slower speed - then play even Bucs 2009 at a lower speed - I did - it tells an interesting story. Bucs were smooth, but not as clean as some proclaim their perfection and certainly not as good on the classic attack/release etc. scale. True clips are not the perfect way to evaluate - but it gives you perspective.
If they were to use today's DCI/DCA judging sheets - sure - Skyliners/Cabs or whomever would not win - use the old tick system and Bucs wouldn't be first.
Looking at percussion alone - the books written by the likes of Bobby Thompson, Colin Campbell, Jack Pratt - those were COMPLEX for their better lines and they played constantly - not a lot of breaks. Bucs execute their book very well, but there are lots of breaks as well. Take the Crusaders closing drum solo 1966 just as one of xxx examples - sorry - but that is pure 'exposure' and complexity to go along with some phenomenal execution. It beats anything the Bucs played this year.
Certainly an academic discussion - but as in any endeavor, the 'old' stuff just ain't as good as 'today' doesn't hold water. Kinda like saying - Miles Davis wouldn't make it in today's world because of ????
We all enjoy what we like. I had this same discussion with Mickey Petrone - of happy memory - just a few weeks before his passing - he of the same old school as I - he said it was split in the DCA camp - some thought today's corps were superior and others were the opposite. Enjoy what you enjoy.
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Comprehensive review and seems to be in line with what the judges thought as well in terms of positioning overall.
Only disagreement - your opinion that the 2009 Bucs are the greatest corp in DCA history - not be a long shot IMHO. If your memory is fading as you indicated might be the case - take a few visits to youtube and take a gander at any of the 60/70's shows/performances. Take even the 72 Skyliners and Cabs at Finals - the drive, emotion, pure fun AND execution overall were better than any in this year's DCA contingent. Heck even the Bucs from the 70s were really something else.
As for those debating how the Bucs might fit against the top DCI corps - they might crack top 12 at best, but probably not - all conjecture. We are all entitled to our opinions, but for myself and all of my DC friends from the golden age of the 60-70's and even early 80's - the consensus is that DCI puts out some absolutely phenomenal execution on the brass/percussion side to go along with very faced paced drills. My analogy is that DCI is like the Bolshoi Ballet ( which I have seen courtesy of my wife ) - exquisite coreo and execution, but no emotional highs for me - I'll take a great NY stage play, a Rippingtons Concert or the NY Phil doing the Wagner trilogy any day - thrilling, pounding and memorable. The overall attendance figures for DCI continue to decline and for obvious reasons. Not sure how DCA attendance has fared over the past 3 years.
Have a great off season.....
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Any more reviews/opinions from those who attended ? BTW - what was the total attendance at finals ?
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HNC won't be HNC next year, so what is their new "postal" abbreviation?
Perhaps JJ Cadets after that 'famous' percussion judge.
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Please. Think for just one second. Crown was on AFTER Cadets. How did he know he was taking them out of second when they WERE THIRD both nights prior and Crown had yet to perform? What if two of Crown's snares fell?
Only JJ knows for sure why he gave the assessment he did. Having said that - the 20 second time slice in which the drummer was out of the line - should have had ZERO impact on his assessment overall in the aggregate. DCI is far removed from the tick system. In the visual captions - absolutely it was/should have been a factor. The real issue is that you have one judge who goes entirely against the assessment of x number of DCI judges at the most critical point in the season and decides - nah - HNC isn't that good. The question was/is - the spread he applied not that he had them behind corps they had beaten all season long.
Judges - love em and hate em.
JJ's reputation got a major hit on this one. If you analyze the entire recap - his score for HNC is the ONLY caption assessment which was out of sync with the last several weeks of the season and certainly in quarters/semis as well. That alone raises a yellow flag.
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given that Cadets had a snare go down, a bad recovery and never settled in afterwatds, i doubt it
Jeff - I agree they would have lost a tad with the 20 seconds the snare was 'out', but I disagree that they did not recover as I think they did or at least enough not to get dumped so badly. FYI - I'm an old percussion guy myself and while the stadium sound was disappointing overall and tougher to get a precise read on the lines from the seats - my view registered with a friend I was sitting with who happens to be a HOF drum judge. Sorry but Pipitone knew that his score would knock HNC out of second. One fall should not have caused such a massive drop in the assessment - esp given the subjective nature of today's scoring methods. Pipitone blew this one - HNC was hosed - simply put by this guy from Rochester where I was born.
Hey Jeff - by chance are you with Gannet -Fleming out of Harrisburg area - if yes I actually spoke to you on the phone last year - not knowing you were a DC type guy !! Small world !!
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Great, quick review - thank you.
As always - DCI had to have a judge controversy and this year the top of the list JJ Pipitone . Putting a corp down to 7/8 which was in the top percussion lines all season and top 2-3 for the last six weeks solid - is an atrocity. HNC was hosed royally. He was a talented DCI member in his formative years, but obviously that means squat when it comes to the ability to judge accurately. Wonder if Hopkins had any kind words for Pipi after the show ?
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I'm pretty good at moving chairs too. I bet I could play a horn for 7min too!
Does the score really make a diff ? Placement is where in counts when it comes down to a championship like this.
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It was inevitable that eventually this would happen in my opinion. Nobody had more of the high risk, high velocity drill than did the Cadets this year. The fact that a marcher fell down in the high risk, high velocity drill is not surprising. The fact that it led to score diminishment in the percussion line from which the fallen member participated in is likewise no surprise. The fact it cost the Cadets a placement positition also is no surprise.
What WILL be a surprise however is if the Caderts will not rethink this high velocity drill in light of this outcome in the off seasoin and next year won't tone down the high velocity drill moves and offer up a visual program in which performers perform with the use of props and in a more stationary and more vertical approach with their visual as opposed to going mostly horizontal moves at great speed like they did this year. The Cadets will rethink this stylistic approach in the offseason. I'm certain of it. They won't want to put themselves in such a high risk position like this again next year. They saw the path the Blue Devils took visually to attain their title. And the Cadets staff show designers are are not dummies. They'll adjust to the changing landscape that the Blue Devils of 2009 have now ushered in.
Seems Brasso perhaps would prefer the corps to park and blow for entire show and perhaps sit down on chairs like a concert orchestra. Through 30 odd performances no one in the HNC drum line fell - why is that ? Back in the golden age of DC - kids fell and we wern't doing the things HNC were doing I can assure you. One slip and Brasso wants to see the activity change everything - his opinion.
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Pipitone called it like he saw it. I was taught by the man for 3 years and I never saw him make an unfair call. The fact that your favorite corp didn't get second because one man had the balls to say that they sucked during this particular show is what should be considered an outrage. Let me put it to you this way: Last year Phantom won drums (Pipitone was the judge then too) and this year they were fifth. He wasn't playing favorites, he just gave a fair score.
Mallets2014 has the right to his opinion as does anyone else.
I've gotten 3 emails from different people who attended the show last night. Two are former percussion guys from back when and non are HNC alumni or have any connection to that org. Their take on the HNC drum placement was the same. Something was 'way' wrong. Under the old tic system - sure their could be some swings - but under the subjective judging these days and how DCI keeps corps/captions pretty much aligned from show to show. - there was a major injustice to HNC. Some of the great traditions ( tick based judging/passing in review/all corps playing in retreat etc. etc. ) one thing that obviously has not changed is that you get some yahoo judge out to make a statement at a show - Pipitone had his 15 minutes of anger with George and the HNC for whatever reason. I understand Pipitone's judging comments alone - tells the tale -. This was an abhorrent, lack of ethics on his part and while he may have earned some respect during his percussive career - he blew it at one show.
BD was the hands down judge favorite and deserved the result I'm sure, but Pipitone's lapse in decent, good judgment was an atrocity for HNC who obviously should have finished second if Pipitone had only been a decent individual. Good things come to good people and then bad things happen to those who prefer to do evil - he'll get his on a personal level at some point.
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Intonation intonation ....
Galen likes to point this out and indeed it is surprising that at this point in the season, there are still a number of issues with many of the corps - but they are all going out there and giving it their best as they point to Indy. Most comments are decent opinions. However, I'd be willing to bet that if you looked in the dictionary under intonation - we'd get a look at Galen's picture right there - he of the Mr. Perfect persuasion.
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Good review. As for BD - I sure hope the judges don't pull the same garbage with them as they have in some past years - i.e. give them top scores all thru the season then at finals decide - nah they aren't that good and push them down to 2nd or 3rd. 'That stinks' is putting it nicely and questions the entire DCI scoring methodology and fairness. If BD is not the best corp - the judges should say so NOW and not mislead BD ( and other corps as well ). Personally - judging has long been suspect IMHO.
Word on the street for a few weeks is that it is already a done deal for finals - 1 - Crown 2 BD 3 HNC 4 Cavaliers - if it turns out this way - I'll really have an issue with DCI judging veracity.
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Loved the comment - Caballeros very predictable "spanish" show - So what would you expect Hawthorne to play - perhaps Mozart ? Kinda like saying the Skyliners Alumni should never play anything related to New York. Suggest you didn't spend enough time in your HS band to learn much.
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Obvious Cavalier fans venting their angst knowing the BD will another title this evening. If you do not like the current scoring mechanisms and guidelines I suggest you write the DCI Board. Personally I always preferred the tic system, but that will never come back.
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Jim and I marched together in St Pat's drumline in the 60's. His recollection of the Union City show was one year off. We beat Sac and Garfield in 1964 not 1965 in Union City aided by a nice 2+point bulge in drumming execution. St Pat's beat Lucy's in 1965 at the OLPH Show one week after finishing in 5th at the Dream thanks to a nice 3 point bulge in drumming. St Pat's was indeed in that 2nd Tier of East Coast Corps which were always on the cusp of moving up to the top tier. Vasella, Bracken and St Raphael's were but a few of the great entertaining corps of that era in that tier.
St Pat's strength was always its drum line and was always either on top or close to it at the majority of shows. One the few occasions when they toppled one of the Jersey Kingpins - you could always trace it back to an exceptionally clean show. At the 64 Union City where the bulge was 2+ points - we marched 4 snares and they were only ticked twice on the sheets as I recall the drummiing judges were Fitzgerald and Flowers. Mr. T had two great lines in those days - St Pat's and Sac.
As can be attested by the indiviudal contests of that era - there was some of the best top tier talent in their brass line - just not enough of them - and certainly the drum line was top tier nationally.
An interesting Lewisburg review
in DCA All-Age Corps and Alumni Corps Show & Event Reviews
Posted