BrassClef Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 So I'm currently going to school for band instrument repair. I have had ideas running through my head for a few years now about making a "marching horn" better. I'm talking about the Yamaha YHR-302 in Bb. So on my own time, before and after class I have started working on a proto-type. Basically I am going to be adding an F extension and thumb valve to the marching horn. So far I have figured out how much tubing I need to make the horn in F, and how I want to route it. This is my first attempt (using rubberized wire) but I have a better wrap since taking this photo: I have taken apart an old King single horn for it's third valve: I am re-routing the knuckles, so I need to saw off the ones I don't need: I had to raid the parts bin to find all the pieces to make it a complete valve: And this where I am: This week I will be a kneeling that big strip of brass, to make patches to go on the valve. I will then be silver soldering the new 45 degree knuckles to the patches, drilling out holes and then soft soldering the patches onto the casing. You may be wondering, "Why?" Well eventually I want to make the proto-type wrapped for the left hand. Essentially making a front facing compensating "double" horn with three piston valves and one rotor valve. My hope is to have a quality instrument that may even make it's way into the symphonic world (highly unlikely) but as someone who used to teach young kids on horn I see this as an option. I had a lot of younger kids who were developmentally ready to play a double horn, but physically couldn't hold one correctly. This would solve this issue. Also would fix the whole issue of the horn sections sound getting soaked up by the people and or percussion instruments behind them. I don't see it being a marching instrument, but who knows? Anyway I'm doing this most importantly for myself - if something comes out of it, then so be it. I will keep this thread updated when I have them, stay tuned :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofjabba Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) As a apprentice instrument technician myself. (1 year) I have to say you've picked a very difficult project. I resurrected 7 totally crushed Tubas for the Philadelphia school district over the summer. One customers horn "tuba" came in missing a main tuning slide and every knuckle was crushed. Needless to say I'm an expert on tubas now. It goes much faster taking a torch to it. Even did a french horn (Conn 4D) that was sat on. I know it was worthless.. >< My advice. Do your math. make the tuning slide you are adding adjust < 3-4 inches. You can always flatten. Sharpening is a pain in the gonads. Over bracing will cause the horn to sound thin, tinnie, loss of overtones. Brass is plumbing. Don't overthink a problem, think like the manufacturer. How would they have done this, and apply their ideas to solve your problem. You might think up a better solution. I've been thinking of getting a crushed rotary valve tuba with a complete valve section, and a crushed sousaphone with missing valves to play. "Let's make a Rotary Valve Sousaphone" My current personal project is a Bundy II Tenor Sax I powder coated the body. I used aluminum oxide blasting media to remove the remaining lacquer and corrosion. Sprayed it and baked it. I like the low gloss black but the Master I'm apprenticing under thinks it looks weird. You can rub it against keys like they were hanging off your belt and the finish doesn't even scratch or scuff. I might have that ready to assemble this week.. Ugg we got a lot of work in suddenly.. None of it good. LOL Always remember to do perfect work. Your "Good enough" might not be as high as your customers. Sign your work well. Not so much for the customer but to the next guy he shows the horn off to. Good Luck PJ Frank Woodwind Repair. And we do brass. LOL Edited November 14, 2011 by sonofjabba 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassClef Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 yeah my instructor is helping me a long with the process, which is nice. They hate the term "good enough" and really do hold us up to a high standard, which can get frustrating at times.... Thank you for the advice. Also I LOVE the saxophone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassClef Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Some updates: this week I was able to make the patches, form the knuckles to the patches, silver solder them to said patches, dremel out the port holes, and soft solder the patches to the casing. I'm a little upset at myself for the messy soft sodlering job, but I should be able to clean it up later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 If you're gonna get sloppy with the soft solder, be #### sure not to get any on the threads, I also dummy up a wrap using rubberized wire, or a scrap of Romex. (The guy who has designed many of the worlds rollercoasters always starts by bending up an old coathanger.) Now let's talk acoustical design. A double horn has two sets of valveslides. The F slides are 1/3 longer than the Bb slides. You are adding a rotary F valve to a Bb descending piston horn. The valve combination R23 will give a good harmonic series in D. All other combinations with the F valve will yield pitches that are essentially useless. Do some research on the web - learn about the conventional double horn and its predecessor the Kruspe compensating horn. And the scending 3rd piston config.Also learn about the Blaikley compensating system and the Besson Enharmonic system. There already is a bellfront concert instrument built from French Horn components. It's called a Wagner Tuba. PJ: I always make my valveslides flat, then then compare pitches with a reference horn. The amount of slide pull to match the reference horn to the prototype is the amount that must be trimmed. I might try your method of building the slides sharp, but I'd have to borrow some plumber's pipe stretcher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassClef Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 If you're gonna get sloppy with the soft solder, be #### sure not to get any on the threads, I also dummy up a wrap using rubberized wire, or a scrap of Romex. (The guy who has designed many of the worlds rollercoasters always starts by bending up an old coathanger.) Now let's talk acoustical design. A double horn has two sets of valveslides. The F slides are 1/3 longer than the Bb slides. You are adding a rotary F valve to a Bb descending piston horn. The valve combination R23 will give a good harmonic series in D. All other combinations with the F valve will yield pitches that are essentially useless. Do some research on the web - learn about the conventional double horn and its predecessor the Kruspe compensating horn. And the scending 3rd piston config.Also learn about the Blaikley compensating system and the Besson Enharmonic system. There already is a bellfront concert instrument built from French Horn components. It's called a Wagner Tuba. PJ: I always make my valveslides flat, then then compare pitches with a reference horn. The amount of slide pull to match the reference horn to the prototype is the amount that must be trimmed. I might try your method of building the slides sharp, but I'd have to borrow some plumber's pipe stretcher. I've been doing some research, I've also done some while in my undergrad too. I'm not a fan of Wagner tubas, mainly because they still have all rotor valves.. I'm curious to see what is going to come out of it, and if all else fails, it was an experience I gained. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Here's one of my earlier add-a-valve projects, a King K-70 with additional goodies from an Olds BU-15 corpse: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Here's a similar treatment on a King K-40 G flugel. Adding the rotary into the wrap meant losing an inch somewhere else. So the leadpipe was swapped out for a shorter one. An Olds mellophone supplied the needed components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) The rest of the Olds mello was not ignored. Here it makes a very stable monitor stand. The monitor pivots on a lazy susan bearing assembly mounted on a 4x4 electrical box cover. It latches into either portrait or landscape mode with a double-secret spring-tension mechanism. PivotPro software keeps the image upright. Edited November 22, 2011 by HornsUp 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Kirby Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Here's one of my earlier add-a-valve projects, a King K-70 with additional goodies from an Olds BU-15 corpse: You are a sick, sick man my friend, and the world needs more of you. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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